Hardy/Deal vs Arlington middle schools

[Anonymous]

Hardy is a really good middle school choice but you may end up wanting to apply to private or DCPS application schools for high school (like a lot of the city does outside of the Deal boundary) . Deal is very very large for a middle school. But its boundary has by far the best DC non-application high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

We lived on the Hill, but our kids went to a DCPS elementary school in another neighborhood, so we had a morning and afternoon school commute. That ended when we moved to Arlington.

Once in Arlington, I never again wasted a minute thinking about or applying for charters, choice schools, lotteries, etc. Amazingly freeing. My kids went to the neighborhood schools they were assigned to! And it was fine! The end! One of our kids needed a 504, and though there were some glitches here and there over the years, it was handled in a far more competent manner than when DCPS was overseeing it.

When we lived on the Hill, we had a grocery store, pharmacy, library, hardware store, parks, playgrounds, etc within walking distance. In Arlington, we have those same things within walking distance, plus we have a yard that the dog can enjoy and a driveway so no need to circle the block looking for a spot when I come home late at night. (Our house is about the same size--small--though differently configured since it's not a row house.)

For those times that I need a big-box store in the suburbs I am that much closer.

We are actually closer to NW DC than when we lived on the Hill. We are further from Metro, but we have a bus line that is just a few steps from our front door, takes me straight to Ballston metro in 5 minutes.

On the Hill, we had our cars broken into more times than I can remember, once had our front door kicked in in the middle of the night, and I was followed from the metro once by a group of teens who came up behind me and let off some kind of alarm noise right in my ear, scaring the crap out of me. In Arlington we've had no break-ins of any kind nor gangs of teens causing trouble. Also, in Arlington, no one steals deliveries off our front stoop.

We have been lucky enough to have great neighbors both on the Hill and in Arlington, so while we missed the old people we made new friends and now feel completely settled here. With very rare exceptions, the kids' neighborhood friends went to the same schools and their school friends all live within walking distance. (On our block on the Hill, there were 5 boys born in the same year....all 5 went to different elementary schools).

Not sure if this is still something DC struggles with, but services in Arlington are so much better than they were when we lived on the Hill. Trash and recycling are picked up on time, we have compost pickup, too. If you have a large item that you are trashing, you call and schedule a pickup within a few days. The streets are plowed quickly. If you complain about a pothole, someone comes to fix it. When we had a drainage issue in our yard, the county had someone we could consult with. The library system is excellent (and we are within walking distance of the main branch). There are county nature centers where you can host a birthday party pretty cheaply and walk in the woods. Tennis courts, basketball courts, soccer fields. Kids recreational sports programs are great and easily accessible. County-run classes in all kinds of things (arts, language, tech, skills) for adults and kids. Arlington is extremely small, so even if something is located on the other side of the county, it's a short drive away.

I can't emphasize enough: I was happy on the Hill, and I didn't want to move. But once we did, I realized that so many things about DC living were hard. Things are just much easier here.

The biggest downside IMO is: Capitol Hill is generally so much more attractive. Some (much?) of Arlington is pretty ugly. Strip malls and such. When we were looking at houses here, I referred to it as Uglyton. ~shrug~ Turns out I love it here anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

I'm the PP from way up above who lives a mile from Ballston. This immediate PP lives near me. My kids are older now, but their experience was like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Look, I'm not advocating for anyone to stay in DC and enroll their kids in DC schools. I don't have kids in school anymore. We raised ours in Arlington and moved into the city when they were out of school. And we have many friends who are navigating the DC school system EOTP and wow -- it looks exhausting.

Arlington schools are better, Arlington living is easier, Arlington crime is lower, Arlington's services are more reliable. Etc etc etc. I agree with all of it. Everything you've said. You've posted nothing that I disagree with. And I know it all first hand -- the schools, the neighborhoods, and the lifestyle -- because I lived it for many, many years.

All I'm saying is that Arlington IS the suburbs, it's NOT the city, and your kids ARE more sheltered. Hell, that's why you moved there. And I get it.

Just don't oversell it or try to characterize it as something that it's clearly not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Look, I'm not advocating for anyone to stay in DC and enroll their kids in DC schools. I don't have kids in school anymore. We raised ours in Arlington and moved into the city when they were out of school. And we have many friends who are navigating the DC school system EOTP and wow -- it looks exhausting.

Arlington schools are better, Arlington living is easier, Arlington crime is lower, Arlington's services are more reliable. Etc etc etc. I agree with all of it. Everything you've said. You've posted nothing that I disagree with. And I know it all first hand -- the schools, the neighborhoods, and the lifestyle -- because I lived it for many, many years.

All I'm saying is that Arlington IS the suburbs, it's NOT the city, and your kids ARE more sheltered. Hell, that's why you moved there. And I get it.

Just don't oversell it or try to characterize it as something that it's clearly not.

So you haven't lived in the city with kids yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

We lived on the Hill, but our kids went to a DCPS elementary school in another neighborhood, so we had a morning and afternoon school commute. That ended when we moved to Arlington.

Once in Arlington, I never again wasted a minute thinking about or applying for charters, choice schools, lotteries, etc. Amazingly freeing. My kids went to the neighborhood schools they were assigned to! And it was fine! The end! One of our kids needed a 504, and though there were some glitches here and there over the years, it was handled in a far more competent manner than when DCPS was overseeing it.

When we lived on the Hill, we had a grocery store, pharmacy, library, hardware store, parks, playgrounds, etc within walking distance. In Arlington, we have those same things within walking distance, plus we have a yard that the dog can enjoy and a driveway so no need to circle the block looking for a spot when I come home late at night. (Our house is about the same size--small--though differently configured since it's not a row house.)

For those times that I need a big-box store in the suburbs I am that much closer.

We are actually closer to NW DC than when we lived on the Hill. We are further from Metro, but we have a bus line that is just a few steps from our front door, takes me straight to Ballston metro in 5 minutes.

On the Hill, we had our cars broken into more times than I can remember, once had our front door kicked in in the middle of the night, and I was followed from the metro once by a group of teens who came up behind me and let off some kind of alarm noise right in my ear, scaring the crap out of me. In Arlington we've had no break-ins of any kind nor gangs of teens causing trouble. Also, in Arlington, no one steals deliveries off our front stoop.

We have been lucky enough to have great neighbors both on the Hill and in Arlington, so while we missed the old people we made new friends and now feel completely settled here. With very rare exceptions, the kids' neighborhood friends went to the same schools and their school friends all live within walking distance. (On our block on the Hill, there were 5 boys born in the same year....all 5 went to different elementary schools).

Not sure if this is still something DC struggles with, but services in Arlington are so much better than they were when we lived on the Hill. Trash and recycling are picked up on time, we have compost pickup, too. If you have a large item that you are trashing, you call and schedule a pickup within a few days. The streets are plowed quickly. If you complain about a pothole, someone comes to fix it. When we had a drainage issue in our yard, the county had someone we could consult with. The library system is excellent (and we are within walking distance of the main branch). There are county nature centers where you can host a birthday party pretty cheaply and walk in the woods. Tennis courts, basketball courts, soccer fields. Kids recreational sports programs are great and easily accessible. County-run classes in all kinds of things (arts, language, tech, skills) for adults and kids. Arlington is extremely small, so even if something is located on the other side of the county, it's a short drive away.

I can't emphasize enough: I was happy on the Hill, and I didn't want to move. But once we did, I realized that so many things about DC living were hard. Things are just much easier here.

The biggest downside IMO is: Capitol Hill is generally so much more attractive. Some (much?) of Arlington is pretty ugly. Strip malls and such. When we were looking at houses here, I referred to it as Uglyton. ~shrug~ Turns out I love it here anyway.

Thanks for this thoughtful response. We moved to DC from NYC a few years ago and spoke about it this way — that we didn’t realize how hard our lives were there until we left.

Would I give up our neighborhood to gain back the brain space I spend thinking about school lotteries? I just might.

I still love the independence my kids have here but it might not be enough to stay.

[Anonymous]

For those commenting life in Arlington is easier than in DC. Is that true compared to the DC neighborhoods that are more suburban (Upper NW) or is it true for neighborhoods more like Capitol Hill and Shaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We left Capitol Hill for one of the N Arlington middle schools two years ago. I'm not finding that my kids are remotely sheltered or stifled in VA. Their 7th and 8th grade friends take city buses and Metro all around the DMV on their own to get to sports practices, music practices, to see friends, for scouting etc.

Are you happy with the middle school? Do you have a comparison point from friends who stayed in dc and went to dcps or charters? Or that were at deal or hardy?

We keep in close touch with Capitol Hill friends of many years. Their middle schoolers go to Latin, BASIS, Stuart Hobson, Eliot-Hine or parochial schools in Upper NW. The facilities at my kids' Arlington MS blow these programs away. The place has a giant indoor track at the attached community center, school gardens, great tennis courts and good playing fields, a lovely theater with 500 seats and fine acoustics, a good school music program etc. Unlike the DC schools, Arlington has intensified/honors classes in all core subjects for 7th and 8th. Only BASIS seems to offer better academics, and just for science. My eldest does math 2 years ahead of the curriculum in 7th grade, on track for Calc in 9th or 10th. My kids take languages at school 6th-8th.

We looked at Deal and Hardy, thought about moving to NW, but didn't like the lack of honors classes and the chaotic seeming environment at the former. If you're open to moving, N Arlington is the obvious choice. Dorothy Hamm is the best Arlington MS these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Yes, the school of hard knocks up in the Deal/Hardy neighborhoods; those are the kids in DC biking through some real sh**. Eyeroll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Ballston is almost certainly denser than Shaw in terms of housing ….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Yes, the school of hard knocks up in the Deal/Hardy neighborhoods; those are the kids in DC biking through some real sh**. Eyeroll.

lol right??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Ballston is almost certainly denser than Shaw in terms of housing ….

Yea, mostly high risers renting to bros who invade the Wharf and 14th Street on weekends. They're not "dense" with kids in the public schools. Arlington households are among the lowest percentages of families with children in the country, and this is especially true along the Orange Line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Ballston is almost certainly denser than Shaw in terms of housing ….

Yea, mostly high risers renting to bros who invade the Wharf and 14th Street on weekends. They're not "dense" with kids in the public schools. Arlington households are among the lowest percentages of families with children in the country, and this is especially true along the Orange Line.

Not quibbling with you per se but the comparison to density in the Hardy/deal portion of the city is a fair one. It’s way way denser .. with kids … than upper upper NW.