4 year old won’t sleep - help!

[Anonymous]

Posting this in general forum in the hopes that parents of older kids might see it and have ideas, because my husband and I are at the end of our ropes.

My four year old will not fall asleep before 9:30 at night. We can’t leave her alone in her room bc she flips out wildly and she moves around the entire time and cries that her body won’t stay still for an hour+ until she passes out. Once she has stopped moving for 15 seconds I know she is asleep, that is how sudden it is and how much she moves around.

We make sure she is active during the day (wake up at 6:30, full day of pre-k, soccer or tumbling after school, constant running around the house when she is home, no naps obviously). We try to keep a routine at night - bath, teeth, book, low lights, etc. - but it’s almost like that winds her up more somehow.

Does anyone have ANY ideas or success stories on how to improve this??? My husband and ai both work full time jobs and we have no time at all at night to even watch a show together, let alone deal with just administrative life stuff that we need to discuss. (When she is awake she demands 100% of our attention, it’s impossible to do anything else but deal with her, every two minutes she’s in our faces about something and screaming/crying/whining if we don’t.). I’m falling behind at work bc I need to catch up at night and I can’t because my kid needs so much attention late into the evening. I’m really losing my mind.

I don’t want to just lock her in her room and let her scream (both bc that seems cruel and we have an 18 month old right next door who thank god does go to sleep at a normal time). But if you have had to resort to this, did it even work? I hate even thinking of this but I don’t know what else to do. And she needs more sleep than she is getting but she just won’t relax and wind down until she drops from exhaustion.

My child has been diagnosed with ADHD and ASD through a neuropsych exam, so please keep in mind - we have of course tried things like routines, more activity, etc. (I read responses sometimes that are like “well you just have to tell your kid they have to and clearly you aren’t controlling your child if they disobey you” - that just doesn’t work for my kid, and I’m honestly extremely extremely envious of those of you with easier kids where that works.)

Sorry for the huge post and thanks for any help or ideas anyone has. I’m exhausted.

[Anonymous]

You're probably better off posting in the Special Needs section.

[Anonymous]

Melatonin and potentially other sleep aids. Find a pediatric neurologist that is a sleep specialist and talk to them.

[Anonymous]

Is she medicated?

[Anonymous]

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this!! This sounds so hard. I assume you have tried most of this or thought of most is this already but:

Is there any possibility at all that you are missing her “window” to fall asleep (and she is overtired and even more wound up by the time you try)? I think my kids went to bed at 7 at that age (no naps).

Have you asked ped about melatonin? (No idea if peds recommend it these days)

Have you tried any “survival mode” type of techniques just to get some relief and have any worked (lying down with her etc)? I confess that with my “really poor sleeper” we’d sometimes lie down with him in our bed and put on a Disney movie. He’d usually fall asleep after a bit and then parent could leave. Usually we could transfer him successfully to his room when we went to bed. I know screens are not recommended it but honestly we were so exasperated at the time. And eventually he grew out of it.

[Anonymous]

Is there any variation that you have noticed? Are there ever times she does fall asleep more easily or is this every single night?

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, my 6 year old has an ADHD diagnosis and since medicating (which helped other things in a huge way), we have had to use melatonin most nights. It helps SO MUCH. I truly can't tell you, when we've tried not doing it I get so worn down because there is NO BREAK and nightime is just SO INTENSE. We only use .5 mg, cut 1mg gummy in half, it is SUCH small dose yet somehow really makes a huge difference. Our pediatric psychiatrist has worked with us to try other things, moving the med time etc., because ideally we wouldn't use it every single night but he says at such a small dose if it means he is getting the sleep he needs it is worth it and he likely won't need it in a couple years. So for now, we are going with it. Our pediatrician also agreed and says it is pretty benign. The side effects of not doing it and having him not get enough sleep (and me being at my wits end as a parent!!) seem worse than any potential side effects of doing it.

With the .5 mg not only does he fall asleep at a normal time, he is much calmer during the bedtime routine and it more enjoyable for our younger child and all of us.

[Anonymous]

Also I'm glad you moved it to the special needs forum, immediately I was worried about the responses you were going to get - I have a neurotypical younger child and bedtime with him is so different I think it would be very hard to understand for a parent of neurotypical kids just how the intensity can wear you down so much.

[Anonymous]

Sleep doc recommended we add exercise to the bedtime routine - not anything bouncy or jumpy or heart pumping, but SLOW/HEAVY work. Kids yoga on you tube, slow squats, wall push ups, make it a game. We talked about tiring her muscles out, but had to keep her calm about it (she was a bouncy little thing)

Plus weighted blanket and melatonin. (Eventually she moved up to rx sleep meds)

[Anonymous]

Melatonin was a godsend for us.

[Anonymous]

Melatonin and sleep meditations were hugely helpful in helping our ADHD kid finally learn how to fall asleep.

[Anonymous]

The short answer is melatonin.

The long answer is completely changing routines and being 100% consistent. I also have a kid with autism and I had to be really careful with my words and expectations. Also, 9:30 is a super late bedtime for a 4 year old. She’s not getting enough sleep which is worsening all of these behaviors. Things will get worse before they get better—but they will get better after you set hard boundaries.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s tough.

[Anonymous]

1-3 mg of melatonin. That said, i agree w the poster above that you are missing the earlier window of her regular bedtime and she is going into overtiredness. When are you beginning this routine? I would try rolling it back.

Is she napping?

[Anonymous]

Go to pediatrician first and have them run a ferritin test.

[Anonymous]

Yoga and 0.5 mg of melatonin works for my AuDHD child.
A higher dose of melatonin makes her wake up at 2 pm.