Are narcissists really clueless?

[Anonymous]

Went to dinner to celebrate narcissist MIL’s birthday. Over 20+ years of being with my spouse, I’ve basically learned to distance myself/gray rock her, and it generally works fine in terms of no drama, etc. We only have occasion to see her about once/month and DH also doesn’t want more interaction with her than that.

During dinner, DH mentioned family members that apparently have gray rocked MIL. We see them once in a while and are on good terms. Both MIL and SIL acted confused that those family members don’t want anything to do with her. I almost felt bad for her, but then remember all those times MIL has been terrible to me and DH and basically everyone around her.

Now I’m left wondering, is someone like her (a classic narcissist) clueless as to how terrible they are?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, meant to say the family members *cut off* MIL.

[Anonymous]

Clinically speaking, they are TOO aware of how awful they are, and this is the thought that runs through their minds constantly. This is how they think of themselves. Narcs have extremely low self esteem and self image. Yes, they are all too aware of how awful they are.

[Anonymous]

Can't blame MIL for reacting when your DH casually drops that he's been interacting with relatives who cut her off. Said on her birthday? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

PP. All right. I reread the OP. DH me tioned the othet relatives and MIL couldn't undersrand why they've been distant. Got ir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clinically speaking, they are TOO aware of how awful they are, and this is the thought that runs through their minds constantly. This is how they think of themselves. Narcs have extremely low self esteem and self image. Yes, they are all too aware of how awful they are.

no, I don’t think this is true. they don’t consciously think this. they see everything through the distorted lens of how great they are and how every one else is not. (also a BPD characteristic.) no true narcissist or BPD is thinking about how terrible they are all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clinically speaking, they are TOO aware of how awful they are, and this is the thought that runs through their minds constantly. This is how they think of themselves. Narcs have extremely low self esteem and self image. Yes, they are all too aware of how awful they are.

no, I don’t think this is true. they don’t consciously think this. they see everything through the distorted lens of how great they are and how every one else is not. (also a BPD characteristic.) no true narcissist or BPD is thinking about how terrible they are all the time.

No. They are victims in their minds. They are stars in their minds. Everyone is waiting for them to show up and happy to wait.
(really. I know them)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't blame MIL for reacting when your DH casually drops that he's been interacting with relatives who cut her off. Said on her birthday? Yikes.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't blame MIL for reacting when your DH casually drops that he's been interacting with relatives who cut her off. Said on her birthday? Yikes.

To clarify, it wasn’t clear to me that they had cut her off until it was mentioned at dinner. And I don’t know what DH knew about it either. It could have also been an attempt by her of her typical woe-is-me / victim attitude that MIL was playing.

But my question was more along the lines of MIL and SIL acting so surprised that people are just done dealing with her. There are other family members that have cut her off as well.

[Anonymous]

Narcs will turn it around so that the people who are gray rock/ignoring them are the mean ones and they themselves “love and miss and think about them so much.” They might even dramatize the pain they’ve had over the slight.

[Anonymous]

True narcissists are NOT clueless. They are calculating and manipulative.

However, untreated ADHD and /or ASD are constantly clueless and self-centered, which can appear like passive aggressiveness or narcissism.

And yes, there are some adhd/asd people who are narcissists as well. Really angry double whammy to deal with then- incompetent and anger explosions/DARVO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True narcissists are NOT clueless. They are calculating and manipulative.

However, untreated ADHD and /or ASD are constantly clueless and self-centered, which can appear like passive aggressiveness or narcissism.

And yes, there are some adhd/asd people who are narcissists as well. Really angry double whammy to deal with then- incompetent and anger explosions/DARVO.

Yeah, that’s where I’m landing - just another attempt to garner sympathy. Then you fall for it and as usual, it comes back to bite you in the end. It’s nice to finally distance myself enough to not let it get under my skin, and so glad to see that DH has done so as well.

[Anonymous]

I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

[Anonymous]

Why do you label her a narcissist? Very few people are actually narcissists, but reading DCUM, you'd think 40% of everyone's Mom, MIL, or SIL is one. Sometimes people are just very selfish or mean or intentionally cruel or immature. Which is objectively bad!

All the psychobabble and amateur diagnosing and throwing around of terms like "gray rock" that we've all earned in the past 10 years is so cringe and wholly unecessary.

We do not have to constantly label people with rare diagnoses to be allowed to not want to associate with them. You can be justified in your distancing from someone because they are mean and selfish. Someone can be very sick without Stage IV cancer. A kid can be worthy and smart without being a genius with high IQ. Let's stop exaggerating! Unless, of course, you have access to her medical records, OP.

Rant over.

Anyway, yes, your MIL is probably clueless as to why people don't like her and plays the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you label her a narcissist? Very few people are actually narcissists, but reading DCUM, you'd think 40% of everyone's Mom, MIL, or SIL is one. Sometimes people are just very selfish or mean or intentionally cruel or immature. Which is objectively bad!

All the psychobabble and amateur diagnosing and throwing around of terms like "gray rock" that we've all earned in the past 10 years is so cringe and wholly unecessary.

We do not have to constantly label people with rare diagnoses to be allowed to not want to associate with them. You can be justified in your distancing from someone because they are mean and selfish. Someone can be very sick without Stage IV cancer. A kid can be worthy and smart without being a genius with high IQ. Let's stop exaggerating! Unless, of course, you have access to her medical records, OP.

Rant over.

Anyway, yes, your MIL is probably clueless as to why people don't like her and plays the victim.

Easier to deal with than thinking she’s a total C*&T BI*%JG.