Are narcissists really clueless?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you label her a narcissist? Very few people are actually narcissists, but reading DCUM, you'd think 40% of everyone's Mom, MIL, or SIL is one. Sometimes people are just very selfish or mean or intentionally cruel or immature. Which is objectively bad!

All the psychobabble and amateur diagnosing and throwing around of terms like "gray rock" that we've all earned in the past 10 years is so cringe and wholly unecessary.

We do not have to constantly label people with rare diagnoses to be allowed to not want to associate with them. You can be justified in your distancing from someone because they are mean and selfish. Someone can be very sick without Stage IV cancer. A kid can be worthy and smart without being a genius with high IQ. Let's stop exaggerating! Unless, of course, you have access to her medical records, OP.

Rant over.

Anyway, yes, your MIL is probably clueless as to why people don't like her and plays the victim.

Not to mention people aren’t generally posting about their healthy family members, so the numbers are obviously skewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

My experience, and DH’s experience with this person, 100% shows that gray-rocking is the best way to deal until she is finally in the ground and the world is a better place for it. Not to mention our bank account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you label her a narcissist? Very few people are actually narcissists, but reading DCUM, you'd think 40% of everyone's Mom, MIL, or SIL is one. Sometimes people are just very selfish or mean or intentionally cruel or immature. Which is objectively bad!

All the psychobabble and amateur diagnosing and throwing around of terms like "gray rock" that we've all earned in the past 10 years is so cringe and wholly unecessary.

We do not have to constantly label people with rare diagnoses to be allowed to not want to associate with them. You can be justified in your distancing from someone because they are mean and selfish. Someone can be very sick without Stage IV cancer. A kid can be worthy and smart without being a genius with high IQ. Let's stop exaggerating! Unless, of course, you have access to her medical records, OP.

Narcissism is a lot more common than what the statistics show. Most narcs are not getting diagnosed, let alone treated. But once you're involved with one and learn the characteristic behaviors you cant un-see it. They all tend to follow the exact same script - play by play -word for word. Its eerie

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

My experience, and DH’s experience with this person, 100% shows that gray-rocking is the best way to deal until she is finally in the ground and the world is a better place for it. Not to mention our bank account.

Wow. Kaching. So that’s why you have a relationship with her- so you get money. Nice.

[Anonymous]

Why would your husband make such an inflammatory comment on her birthday? She’s no longer clueless! The fuse has now been lit on a big family squabble. Cue the popcorn!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:However, untreated ADHD and /or ASD are constantly clueless and self-centered, which can appear like passive aggressiveness or narcissism.

What's the best treatment to avoid this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

My experience, and DH’s experience with this person, 100% shows that gray-rocking is the best way to deal until she is finally in the ground and the world is a better place for it. Not to mention our bank account.

Gray rocking works for many things that are not clinical diagnoses: a teen who is complaining, a parent who is nagging, a nosy neighbor or colleague.

Needing to gray rock to remedy an annoyance does not mean the other person is a narcississt. Totally agree to worry less about the labels and deal with the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:However, untreated ADHD and /or ASD are constantly clueless and self-centered, which can appear like passive aggressiveness or narcissism.

What's the best treatment to avoid this?

Meds and DBT therapy for good habits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

My experience, and DH’s experience with this person, 100% shows that gray-rocking is the best way to deal until she is finally in the ground and the world is a better place for it. Not to mention our bank account.

Gray rocking works for many things that are not clinical diagnoses: a teen who is complaining, a parent who is nagging, a nosy neighbor or colleague.

Needing to gray rock to remedy an annoyance does not mean the other person is a narcississt. Totally agree to worry less about the labels and deal with the behavior. [

[b]

/quote]

Curious what you mean by this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it comes down to me feeling bad for SIL, who along with DH, has felt the brunt of this person’s narcissistic personality their entire lives, but she’s so enmeshed she can’t see it. Anyhoo, it was interesting to observe and I’m sure would make for a wonderful case study for anyone in the field. Or for someone writing a book, I imagine.

Who made this diagnosis?

True narcissists have a shell of extreme superiority and a core of self-loathing. Much of their inner life and behavior is best understood by examining the irreconcilable view they have of themselves. The superior self is forever trying to both shut up and protect the loathsome true self. There is no room to consider others, but they are acutely aware of what the superior self experiences as slights. If MIL is a true narcissist she is experiencing rage and more subconsciously abandonment, fear, grief. And likely does not understand at all why she’s been cut off.

People can have narcissistic traits, or what appear to be narcissistic traits without being narcissists. The list of possible explanations is long and complex. Unless you know from a competent person qualified to diagnose a personality disorder, I would encourage you to drop the label and deal with the person/behavior.

My experience, and DH’s experience with this person, 100% shows that gray-rocking is the best way to deal until she is finally in the ground and the world is a better place for it. Not to mention our bank account.

Gray rocking works for many things that are not clinical diagnoses: a teen who is complaining, a parent who is nagging, a nosy neighbor or colleague.

Needing to gray rock to remedy an annoyance does not mean the other person is a narcississt. Totally agree to worry less about the labels and

deal with the behavior.

Curious what you mean by this?

[Anonymous]

My experience at least with narcissistic traits in a person who take depression medication is that they feel great inside about themselves and hate on the world. They think they need depression medication to deal with the world, not themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True narcissists are NOT clueless. They are calculating and manipulative.

However, untreated ADHD and /or ASD are constantly clueless and self-centered, which can appear like passive aggressiveness or narcissism.

And yes, there are some adhd/asd people who are narcissists as well. Really angry double whammy to deal with then- incompetent and anger explosions/DARVO.

Narcissists are not clueless at all. They know what they are doing, and as noted earlier, are calculating and manipulative. I have little to no sympathy for the narcissists in my family based on their past behavior and treatment of my wife and I.

[Anonymous]

My “narcissist” family member is highly manipulative, but in a backhanded way. I finally realized that they were more likely a narcissist than “slightly narcissistic” when I overheard them speaking calmly about how they had bullied and scared some other family members. There was no remorse or sadness or belief that they needed to make amends - they were quite satisfied with the outcome. That told me that they both were aware of the power of their behavior and that they believed that they had a right to act that way.

I don’t care whether narcissism is the actual diagnosis. I just care that I’m aware of what we’re dealing with, which is a really messed up person who can never be trusted to treat others well and from whom we should limit contact.