Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel can take the position it is here to stay and it will not give up any land. Israel can keep killing Palestinians and pushing them out.
In 100 years, no one will question their forcible takeover. But they want to be loved by the world and supported as victims and they take umbrage at being called bullies and thugs. Why not embrace the mean guy characterization like Russia has done?

Actions speak louder than words.
US Jews try to suppress any discussion of Israel brutality by screaming antisemitism and by doxing.

The country has never said any of this. You are thinking that the stereotypes you have placed on Israel are real and that has created a conflict in your mind, why are they not living up to their what you call "truth"? But it is not truth, it is a stereotype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

That is your opinion. The Palestinians clearly feel a deep connection to their land. They are willing to die for it. Israel feels the same nationalism but somehow doesn’t seem to understand that the Palestinians feel the exact same way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

That is your opinion. The Palestinians clearly feel a deep connection to their land. They are willing to die for it. Israel feels the same nationalism but somehow doesn’t seem to understand that the Palestinians feel the exact same way

Actually, they’re willing to murder for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

That is your opinion. The Palestinians clearly feel a deep connection to their land. They are willing to die for it. Israel feels the same nationalism but somehow doesn’t seem to understand that the Palestinians feel the exact same way

Actually, they’re willing to murder for it.

The body count speaks for itself as to who is willing to murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

[Anonymous]

Hamas is not a creation of Palestinians in the first place. Blame Israel for why Hamas did what it did. Hamas didn’t get donations from Palestinians. The only reason they had the power and finances to do an attack like that is because Israel boosted them up against the PLO for 30 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

And as 10/7 showed, Bebe is right.

Maybe in a couple hundred years when the Hamas citizens have demonstrated they no longer hold genocidal ideals they can be trusted with some form of very limited self government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

And as 10/7 showed, Bebe is right.

Maybe in a couple hundred years when the Hamas citizens have demonstrated they no longer hold genocidal ideals they can be trusted with some form of very limited self government.

1. Then drop the charade that the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot by refusing to accept a peace deal for statehood when there was no intention on the part of a Bibi-led Israel (and an Ariel Sharon-led Israel before that) to honor any such deal. It didn't matter if they had accepted or not.

2. Who are Hamas citizens?

3. If the light at the end of the couple hundred years is "some form of very limited self government", you'd better put a helmet on for the rocky road ahead.

[Anonymous]

An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

The majority of Christian families inside Gaza have taken refuge inside the parish since the start of the war, the patriarchate said in a statement.

The two women, described as a mother and daughter, were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.

Seven others were also shot and wounded in the attack.

“No warning was given, no notification was provided,” the statement continued.

“They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-17-23/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

The majority of Christian families inside Gaza have taken refuge inside the parish since the start of the war, the patriarchate said in a statement.

The two women, described as a mother and daughter, were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.

Seven others were also shot and wounded in the attack.

“No warning was given, no notification was provided,” the statement continued.

“They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-17-23/index.html

So damn sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

The majority of Christian families inside Gaza have taken refuge inside the parish since the start of the war, the patriarchate said in a statement.

The two women, described as a mother and daughter, were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.

Seven others were also shot and wounded in the attack.

“No warning was given, no notification was provided,” the statement continued.

“They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-17-23/index.html

Wicked

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

The majority of Christian families inside Gaza have taken refuge inside the parish since the start of the war, the patriarchate said in a statement.

The two women, described as a mother and daughter, were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.

Seven others were also shot and wounded in the attack.

“No warning was given, no notification was provided,” the statement continued.

“They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the parish, where there are no belligerents.”

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-17-23/index.html

The sniper just wants a loud speaker so that he can recite a Jewish prayer