Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Your alternative is Trump and Republicans who want to expel all Palestinians from the US and nuke Gaza outright.

Again, when did Trump do this? What terrible atrocities against the Palestinian people happened during his reign? History versus current events...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Biden is a fundamentally decent human being. Trump is not. Biden's problem is that he's been hanging onto the old pro-Israel paradigm most of us used to buy into, but the ground is shifting for him as well as for almost everyone else. Today, he threatened Netanyahu with "consequences" unless he (Netanyahu) addresses the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

"President Biden emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable ... He made clear that US policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these steps...Biden also said Israel needed to 'announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/biden-netanyahu-call-wck-deaths/index.html

Biden is a bunch of BS. He is letting Blinken and his friends kill the democratic party. Dems are collateral damage at this point. White folks won't suffer under Trump, and American Jews know this, so they will stop at nothing.

POC will suffer.

It would still be far worse with Republicans at the helm. There is not one credible iota of doubt about that.

[Anonymous]

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Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

No, these imbeciles managed to outdo Hamas. The massacres of civilians and the famine is on the Israeli government, going on a revenge in Gaza, with the IDF dropping gigantic bombs flattening blocks to hit one apartment, designating safe routes for civilians to leave snd then bombing them, shooting anything that moves (see how the three bare-chested, unarmed, white flag waving Israeli hostages were chases and shot dead-how many palestinians were massacred like that?). There was no attempt to limit the damage to civilians, on the opposite there was very much an intent to inflict a ton or pain. Congrats to Netanyhau, Smotrich, Ben G’Vir and company, they quickly manage to turn the world’s support after the horror of October 7 into disgust toward Israel. Several EU countries are planning to recognize a Palestinian state by the summer, Tory MPs in the Uk are demanding the stop or sales of arks to Israel. Heck, even pro-Israel strongman-loving Trump said that this is not exactly how he would have done it.

Hamas could have chosen to stay home on 10/7 and NONE of this would be happening. Logically, Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza. Nothing you just posted changes that.

Please just stop. Hamas is responsible for all kinds of atrocities. But do you know who is responsible for the Gazan deaths? The Israelis. They can argue that some number of civilian casualties are inevitable as a response to the Hamas attacks. And they would be right. But the number has exceeded most normal people’s tolerance.

[Anonymous]

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Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

This is the equivalent of, if some says that well Jews are also responsible for deaths during holocaust, not just Hitler. If only Jews had t provoked Hitler or amassed so much financial power in Germany. Is this where you want to go???

Not the equivalent. October 7 was a mass violent pogrom of people laughing and celebrating ruthless slaughter, rape, poking eyeballs out, bragging that they killed Jews, not even getting into the hostages. Hamas’ charter states its goal to commit genocide by taking its land from the river to the sea. Hamas is evil, and it uses innocents to disguise and hide itself.

The Jews in Europe who were killed in the Holocaust were not evil. They didn’t kill anyone, didn’t announce their intention to kill anyone, and they didn’t kidnap anyone. Stop trying to weaponize the Holocaust against Jews. It’s anti-Semitic.

DP here. I don't think the PP was saying what you suggested they said. In fact, I think they were saying the opposite, viz., that culpability for butchering innocents rests squarely on the butchers, not the victims, and that this is true for both Jews during the Holocaust and for Gazan civilians during this current genocide. The "no innocents in Gaza" claims are as untrue for Gazans today as they were for European Jews in the 1930s and 1940s. (Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, PP; this is just how I read it).

We should stop blaming Hamas for Israel's deliberate slaughter of civilians, aid workers, medical staff, journalists, and every other living thing in Gaza. Yes, the actions of 10/7 were absolutely reprehensible, and nobody is disputing that. However, there are three groups here: Israel, Hamas, and Palestinian civilians. If anyone ever expected more of Israel than of Hamas, they must be severely disappointed. Israel, and no other entity, is perpetrating intentional genocide as we speak.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Your alternative is Trump and Republicans who want to expel all Palestinians from the US and nuke Gaza outright.

Again, when did Trump do this? What terrible atrocities against the Palestinian people happened during his reign? History versus current events...

The moving of the US embassy?
The trump administration West Bank settler policy (that was reversed by this administration)?

These definitely set the conditions for the Israeli response here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The aid workers were not Hamas and included an Australian, American, Canadian, UK, and Polish Citizen. They had told IDF of their movements that day and were traveling a zone that did not have active combat. IDF targets these aid workers bc they don’t want any aid in Gaza. How many mistakes can you make before people start to realize they do this on purpose.

The driver was Palestinian. Suppose he was Hamas - why didn’t Israel just target him specifically when the aid truck reached its destination?

He wasn't. The suppposed target was an unidentified guy with a gun at the warehouse. That guy never left the warehouse and they did not know whether or not he was Hamas. Odds are he wasn't because it would be very normal to have security at the food distribution warehouse in a war zone suffering from famine.

The 6 foreigners were considered acceptable collateral damage under that scenario even though it was known who they were, why they were there, and where they were. Each of the three cars, whixh were transmitting a location beacon and coordinating their movement with COGAT, were tracked and hunted down separately to ensure that all of the occupants were killed regardless.

UK should open a prosecution vs the IDF soldiers that murdered their citizens.

Yeah, except our AIPAC Beheld government will veto it so fast. It's time we all vote with our feet and move to greener pastures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

This is the equivalent of, if some says that well Jews are also responsible for deaths during holocaust, not just Hitler. If only Jews had t provoked Hitler or amassed so much financial power in Germany. Is this where you want to go???

Not the equivalent. October 7 was a mass violent pogrom of people laughing and celebrating ruthless slaughter, rape, poking eyeballs out, bragging that they killed Jews, not even getting into the hostages. Hamas’ charter states its goal to commit genocide by taking its land from the river to the sea. Hamas is evil, and it uses innocents to disguise and hide itself.

The Jews in Europe who were killed in the Holocaust were not evil. They didn’t kill anyone, didn’t announce their intention to kill anyone, and they didn’t kidnap anyone. Stop trying to weaponize the Holocaust against Jews. It’s anti-Semitic.

Yeah, I'm sure the babies in Palestine were screaming "Allah Akbar" and "Death to America" before the IDF dropped Americans. Seriously man - leave your Synagogue for a couple of days and get out into the world. The world is turning against Israel and it's because Israel is turning against humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

I didn’t vote for Hamas.
I didn’t vote in Israeli elections.

I am a U.S. citizen and my tax dollars are only buying weapons for one side of this conflict. It needs to stop. It needed to stop months ago, but this is the moment for our government to choose to stop funding the horrible deaths of children and Americans.

And? Do you think anything will change if you vote Republican instead of Democrat? It won't.

I think if Democrats lose in 2024 because they alienated critical voting populations in key states, they will stop seeing those votes as expendable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reports of several aid workers with World Central Kitchen killed in an IDF strike. One was a British citizen.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-attack-strike-world-central-kitchen-b2521784.html

I wonder how long before it turns out that they (or their driver) were members of Hamas. Just like the other “journalists,” UNWRA, and others who ended up dying.

But at the very least, this is exactly why Israel is limiting access to Gaza to these groups. An active war zone is no place for poorly trained wanna-be go-golfers to hang out.

but its only Israel that does this- armies never bombed each other's field hospitals, even though obviously there were enemy combatants inside recovering, not even the Nazis did that but Israel has. Aid and hospital workers go into active warzones all the time- there were workers distributing food, tents etc in syria, in Ukraine, all over the world and NO army from a UN recognized state entity has bombed or killed them. the IDF is a very incompetent force compared to the wagner force, the Russian conscripts, Assad's army, basically all the other places where war is being waged. there are UN aid workers in the Sudan and Congo right now who are also caught in a non contested genocide with war lords and the warlord's soldiers are managing to avoid killing the aid workers. there are aid workers in Haiti and the armed gangs are managing to avoid killing the aid workers, its just the IDF that is incapable despite the massive amount of modern warfare equipment available to them to avoid hitting a non-militarized road with a convoy on it that was in contact with the IDF and keeping them informed of their movement. The IDF fights like Jesus was telling it to distribute charity- the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing.

I hope you are being sarcastic. Seriously, prior to this war, the IDF was the most admired military force in the world. They are not at all incompetent. Someone is directing these strikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

Whomever makes this statement is stupid and lacks logical reasoning. You are not helping the cause, even if you think you are. A nation can be justified for going to war; a nation can also conduct itself immorally while at war. Are you not capable of holding those two thoughts in your brain at once?
There are two parts to conducting a just war. Jus ad bellum, which concerns the justifications for entering into war; and jus in bello, which concerns ethical conduct in war. Israel absolutely had very legitimate reason for entering into war against Hamas after 10/7. Israel's conduct once in war, however, repeatedly violated of long held norms about acceptable conduct in war. The most glaring violation is the blatant disregard for non-combatant immunity. The entire world aside from right wing Israelis is able to comprehend that the IDF's decisions to slaughter of thousands of children and the deliberate starvation of civilians, not to mention, of course, the murder of aid workers, are immoral.
The IDF has chosen how to respond to the attacks on 10/7. Hamas is not some master puppeteer who decides the IDF's next move and strategy. The IDF determines where it will strike, whom it will strike, and how it will strike. The IDF has responded poorly.
I am sad for Israel because it has needlessly and stunningly squandered the good will extended to it in October by virtually every nation. It's nearly unbelievable how stupid and reckless Israel has been in responding to Hamas by murdering thousands of Palestinian babies children (who are NOT Hamas!) and hundreds of aid workers. What's also incredibly stupid is that Israel is on a seeming suicide mission by fueling a new generation of anti-Israeli militants.

[Anonymous]

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Israel accidentally killed aid workers, and immediately apologized for doing so, in the midst of a war Hamas started. Hamas openly wishes it had been able to slaughter even more than 1,200 civilians on October 7th, and vows to continue such atrocities until the Jews and their state are annihilated. Hamas refuses to surrender and release the hostages they stole (including Americans), while rejecting multiple ceasefire offers. We *should* be aiding Israel, unequivocally and unconditionally. Bothsidesism is morally bankrupt.

We should never provide lethal weapons “unconditionally .”

I do not want my tax dollars being used to kill children, and I do not care what their religion or nationality are.

This x10000000

It’s not more complicated than this

Your tax dollars always kill civilians somewhere. Obama killed hundreds of civilians with drones. Trump drone strikes killed civilians in Somalia. Not sure why you are just waking up now.

You missed the word “children”? Israel has now killed more children than any conflict in recent history.

Add to that: I don’t want my tax dollars used to kill American citizens. Not the American citizen hostages in Gaza (where hostages are being killed by the IDF bombing) not the American citizens who were in Gaza when the conflict started and were effectively abandoned, and not the American humanitarians who selflessly went to Gaza to feed starving civilians.

Hamas is equally, if not more responsible for every dead child in Gaza.

No, these imbeciles managed to outdo Hamas. The massacres of civilians and the famine is on the Israeli government, going on a revenge in Gaza, with the IDF dropping gigantic bombs flattening blocks to hit one apartment, designating safe routes for civilians to leave snd then bombing them, shooting anything that moves (see how the three bare-chested, unarmed, white flag waving Israeli hostages were chases and shot dead-how many palestinians were massacred like that?). There was no attempt to limit the damage to civilians, on the opposite there was very much an intent to inflict a ton or pain. Congrats to Netanyhau, Smotrich, Ben G’Vir and company, they quickly manage to turn the world’s support after the horror of October 7 into disgust toward Israel. Several EU countries are planning to recognize a Palestinian state by the summer, Tory MPs in the Uk are demanding the stop or sales of arks to Israel. Heck, even pro-Israel strongman-loving Trump said that this is not exactly how he would have done it.

Finally - someone else who has done their homework and knows who Smotrich and G'Vir are. These people are absolutely atrocious.

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Biden is a fundamentally decent human being. Trump is not. Biden's problem is that he's been hanging onto the old pro-Israel paradigm most of us used to buy into, but the ground is shifting for him as well as for almost everyone else. Today, he threatened Netanyahu with "consequences" unless he (Netanyahu) addresses the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

"President Biden emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable ... He made clear that US policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these steps...Biden also said Israel needed to 'announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/biden-netanyahu-call-wck-deaths/index.html

Biden is a bunch of BS. He is letting Blinken and his friends kill the democratic party. Dems are collateral damage at this point. White folks won't suffer under Trump, and American Jews know this, so they will stop at nothing.

POC will suffer.

It would still be far worse with Republicans at the helm. There is not one credible iota of doubt about that.

I keep reading this. Surely if this is true, Biden knows it? And if it really is absolute doom for the United States and The World if Trump is elected, why is Biden risking losing the election over supporting Netanyahu!? The cognitive dissonance here is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Biden is a fundamentally decent human being. Trump is not. Biden's problem is that he's been hanging onto the old pro-Israel paradigm most of us used to buy into, but the ground is shifting for him as well as for almost everyone else. Today, he threatened Netanyahu with "consequences" unless he (Netanyahu) addresses the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

"President Biden emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable ... He made clear that US policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these steps...Biden also said Israel needed to 'announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/biden-netanyahu-call-wck-deaths/index.html

Biden has warned Netanyahu about 549 times, it’s a ploy to make fools of voters. He issues these statements then goes back in and sends more weapons to Israel. Also, I am not convinced about his decency, he has proven himself to be a two bit politician.

It will take U.S 5 minutes to put Netanyahu in his place, maybe 3 minutes. Netanyahu is nothing without our support, literally nothing. The entire world hates him and his actions have isolated Israel on the world stage. Who is Biden kidding??? Planes and truckloads of weapons were sent to Israel with 2 nights of 10/7, mind you without congressional approval. You think we can’t tell Netanyahu exactly how we want this to play? GMAFB!

I am neither Jewish nor Muslim and have no connection to the Middle East. I have been an occasional pro-Palestinian poster on these threads (I skip several hundred posts at a time but seem to keep getting sucked back in).

I do think the idea of conditional aide is new from Biden. I imagine the huge pressure that is being applied on Feb WH from allies is having an effect.

No idea what will happen in Nov with the race. Will some folk in critical states sit out the election? Seems likely. I will vote for Biden - my daughter’s right to choose is paramount in my vote.

+1. It's quite a sea change for a U.S. President to do anything other than prostrate himself at Israel's feet. Biden is talking tough. Netanyahu is a bumptious nincompoop with a fantasist's conception of his own importance, but I hope he's smart enough to know which side his bread is buttered.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

Biden issued a powerful condemnation of the murder of the WCK workers, but I agree that he needs to do more. Democrats are also speaking out more and more. On the other side, let's not forget Republican congressman Tim Walberg's unabashed support for genocide when he suggested nuking Gaza to "get it over quick." Biden and the Democrats may be failing on this issue and it's certainly very frustrating, but the Republicans are much, much, much worse.

We're all processing the situation, and this war has led to major paradigm changes globally about Israel. Its image is forever tarnished. Let's give Biden and the Democrats a little more time to catch up. Nobody wants to believe how bad this is, but as the evidence mounts, it's near impossible to avoid the conclusion that Israel is conducting genocide. I hope the ICJ gets an affirmative ruling on genocide out soon and that informs the Biden administration's policies going forward.

A powerful condemnation. Wow, is the next step a tersely worded letter? He is giving bombs to an army in the midst of ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst. But I guess the powerful condemnation makes it ok

You are absolutely right -- a powerful condemnation is not enough. It's a long, long way from enough. It's just a lot better than we're going to get from Trump. We've got two options at present: bad and absolutely horrible.

Biden is already beyond absolutely horrible so Trump will not have that much left to work with.

There are Republicans who said they want to nuke Gaza outright. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/31/politics/tim-walberg-gaza-nagasaki-hiroshima/index.html

There are Republicans want Palestinians kicked out of the US - https://zinke.house.gov/media/press-releases/zinke-introduces-bill-expel-palestinians-united-states

Can you name any pro-Palestine Republicans?

Can you name any Palestinian-Americans holding office as Republicans?

You might not like Biden but to try and claim "well it can't be much worse with the other side" only exposes your deep ignorance.

I’m a Democratic PP who decided today after a lot of contemplation to withhold my vote for Biden over Gaza. I vote in NY, would maybe feel different if I were in a swing state. I totally recognize that Republicans are worse on Israel and basically every other issue. I’m trying to do my part to force change on this issue in my own party. Voting for Biden isn’t going to do that. Reducing his margin in a safe state is really all I can do to signal that I am not happy with his Israel policy and make him pay for it.

I doubt he cares. It just signals to everyone you actually know in the US that you give no shits about women's rights at home.

Clearly Biden cares more about supporting Israel's extermination of Palestinians than he does about women's rights.

Biden is a fundamentally decent human being. Trump is not. Biden's problem is that he's been hanging onto the old pro-Israel paradigm most of us used to buy into, but the ground is shifting for him as well as for almost everyone else. Today, he threatened Netanyahu with "consequences" unless he (Netanyahu) addresses the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

"President Biden emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable ... He made clear that US policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these steps...Biden also said Israel needed to 'announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/biden-netanyahu-call-wck-deaths/index.html

I am struggling to believe a fundamentally decent human being watches more than ten thousand children— not Hamas fighters, not anyone who helped Hamas, not anyone who voted for Hamas—die horribly and then works himself up six months later to say, you know, I’m really mad now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both sides must be held accountable. Instead this government keeps funding BOTH sides! What else do you need to know?

Yes, honestly when you think about this truth it’s pretty crazy. Why is the US spending money to supply Israel with weapons to kill Palestinians and starve while spending money to feed them. This makes no financial or moral sense. Biden is trying to appease the pro Palestinians bc they do matter in key swing states, but he also gets $$ from Jewish donors but I don’t think it’s a smart strategy bc it’s so obvious false and stupid.