APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh. I see. It’s the factions that want to keep Nottingham open bringing up covid as an example of APS being wrong. I’m pretty sure that will not be an effective strategy with the Board or the Arlington electorate in general—other than those already disposed towards ape. It’s likely to alienate more potential supporters.

In the real world, no parent is using the Covid closure as an example of why they shouldn’t close Nottingham. There’s plenty of other, real reasons.

[Anonymous]

APE was not reasonable or better informed during Covid or Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people relitigating COVID in this thread? Can you please start your own thread to rehash your tired opinions about decisions from 3 years ago? The rest of us are interested in the next 3 years.

It keeps coming back to COVID because people keep equating the people who want to keep Nottingham open with the APE contingent that wanted schools to open during COVID. In both cases, these groups are being attacked as selfish, awful, MAGA, whatever.

People are observing that the APEs may have been right about the whole COVID thing and perhaps weren’t aren’t awful and selfish, but working from a broader set of information or assumptions (or even just a refusal to accept what was then considered as “fact” without question). Other people are getting very defensive in response and insisting that, no, they were right all along and the APEs were awful and selfish then and are awful and selfish now.

The situations are closer than you’d think. Both involve people questioning assumptions and getting attacked for it for being “selfish”. Yeah, it’s driven from a place of self interest, but please find me an example in APS history where everyone acted selflessly with a mind toward the whole and the decision was fantastic. It’s just not how decisions are made anywhere. In the case of COVID, the contrarian view turned out to be right. We discounted factors that became a very big deal later and most people look back and agree it just wasn’t worth it.

Some people are saying the assumptions regarding swing space and what APS is putting out as planning “fact” are not the whole picture and there are serious questions about whether these so called facts and assumptions are worth closing an established school community in a broader community that needs seats.

With that being said, let’s put behind the history. People who were right and people who would have chosen differently in hindsight. Good planning doesn’t mean you seek out opportunities to rain your version of planning karma on people you believe hurt you in the past. The kids deserve better, ok? The taxpayers deserve better. APS planning messes up a lot, unfortunately, and it’s our job to keep them honest and tethered to reality and what this community wants for its schools.

Pretty funny for you to keep insisting you were right all along, but then in the same breath you attack those who disagree with you for doing the same thing.

The reason people won't stop talking about APE is because they won't stop talking and trying to influence things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh. I see. It’s the factions that want to keep Nottingham open bringing up covid as an example of APS being wrong. I’m pretty sure that will not be an effective strategy with the Board or the Arlington electorate in general—other than those already disposed towards ape. It’s likely to alienate more potential supporters.

APE likes to think they are the experts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people relitigating COVID in this thread? Can you please start your own thread to rehash your tired opinions about decisions from 3 years ago? The rest of us are interested in the next 3 years.

It keeps coming back to COVID because people keep equating the people who want to keep Nottingham open with the APE contingent that wanted schools to open during COVID. In both cases, these groups are being attacked as selfish, awful, MAGA, whatever.

People are observing that the APEs may have been right about the whole COVID thing and perhaps weren’t aren’t awful and selfish, but working from a broader set of information or assumptions (or even just a refusal to accept what was then considered as “fact” without question). Other people are getting very defensive in response and insisting that, no, they were right all along and the APEs were awful and selfish then and are awful and selfish now.

The situations are closer than you’d think. Both involve people questioning assumptions and getting attacked for it for being “selfish”. Yeah, it’s driven from a place of self interest, but please find me an example in APS history where everyone acted selflessly with a mind toward the whole and the decision was fantastic. It’s just not how decisions are made anywhere. In the case of COVID, the contrarian view turned out to be right. We discounted factors that became a very big deal later and most people look back and agree it just wasn’t worth it.

Some people are saying the assumptions regarding swing space and what APS is putting out as planning “fact” are not the whole picture and there are serious questions about whether these so called facts and assumptions are worth closing an established school community in a broader community that needs seats.

With that being said, let’s put behind the history. People who were right and people who would have chosen differently in hindsight. Good planning doesn’t mean you seek out opportunities to rain your version of planning karma on people you believe hurt you in the past. The kids deserve better, ok? The taxpayers deserve better. APS planning messes up a lot, unfortunately, and it’s our job to keep them honest and tethered to reality and what this community wants for its schools.

Pretty funny for you to keep insisting you were right all along, but then in the same breath you attack those who disagree with you for doing the same thing.

The reason people won't stop talking about APE is because they won't stop talking and trying to influence things.

+1

Why are they commenting on Nottingham at all?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

“Boost the impression”?

The pandemic showed us how little our society values teachers. Why do you think so many are leaving the profession?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people relitigating COVID in this thread? Can you please start your own thread to rehash your tired opinions about decisions from 3 years ago? The rest of us are interested in the next 3 years.

It keeps coming back to COVID because people keep equating the people who want to keep Nottingham open with the APE contingent that wanted schools to open during COVID. In both cases, these groups are being attacked as selfish, awful, MAGA, whatever.

People are observing that the APEs may have been right about the whole COVID thing and perhaps weren’t aren’t awful and selfish, but working from a broader set of information or assumptions (or even just a refusal to accept what was then considered as “fact” without question). Other people are getting very defensive in response and insisting that, no, they were right all along and the APEs were awful and selfish then and are awful and selfish now.

The situations are closer than you’d think. Both involve people questioning assumptions and getting attacked for it for being “selfish”. Yeah, it’s driven from a place of self interest, but please find me an example in APS history where everyone acted selflessly with a mind toward the whole and the decision was fantastic. It’s just not how decisions are made anywhere. In the case of COVID, the contrarian view turned out to be right. We discounted factors that became a very big deal later and most people look back and agree it just wasn’t worth it.

Some people are saying the assumptions regarding swing space and what APS is putting out as planning “fact” are not the whole picture and there are serious questions about whether these so called facts and assumptions are worth closing an established school community in a broader community that needs seats.

With that being said, let’s put behind the history. People who were right and people who would have chosen differently in hindsight. Good planning doesn’t mean you seek out opportunities to rain your version of planning karma on people you believe hurt you in the past. The kids deserve better, ok? The taxpayers deserve better. APS planning messes up a lot, unfortunately, and it’s our job to keep them honest and tethered to reality and what this community wants for its schools.

It was not “right” at the time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

“Boost the impression”?

The pandemic showed us how little our society values teachers. Why do you think so many are leaving the profession?

I think lack of in-person school created an impact that affected teachers jobs deeply and will for years to come.

It’s not how little we value teachers it’s how little we valued teaching and socializing kids during the pandemic. We prioritized other things and now here we are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

“Boost the impression”?

The pandemic showed us how little our society values teachers. Why do you think so many are leaving the profession?

I think lack of in-person school created an impact that affected teachers jobs deeply and will for years to come.

It’s not how little we value teachers it’s how little we valued teaching and socializing kids during the pandemic. We prioritized other things and now here we are.

That they were able to pivot so quickly and learn how to teach virtually?

As a community, we could have made better choices and prioritized education over bars/restaurants, etc. But that wasn't something new. Even before the pandemic, we didn't prioritize education. Look at how the County Board DGAF about overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

“Boost the impression”?

The pandemic showed us how little our society values teachers. Why do you think so many are leaving the profession?

I think lack of in-person school created an impact that affected teachers jobs deeply and will for years to come.

It’s not how little we value teachers it’s how little we valued teaching and socializing kids during the pandemic. We prioritized other things and now here we are.

That they were able to pivot so quickly and learn how to teach virtually?

As a community, we could have made better choices and prioritized education over bars/restaurants, etc. But that wasn't something new. Even before the pandemic, we didn't prioritize education. Look at how the County Board DGAF about overcrowding.

Teachers unions and associations did not stand up and say as professionals we know what is happening is harming children. Let’s problem solve together to figure out solutions that keep us safe and serve the kids who will be harmed the most. They did the complete opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh. I see. It’s the factions that want to keep Nottingham open bringing up covid as an example of APS being wrong. I’m pretty sure that will not be an effective strategy with the Board or the Arlington electorate in general—other than those already disposed towards ape. It’s likely to alienate more potential supporters.

APE likes to think they are the experts.

See? Nothing to see about closing Nottingham. Ad hominem fallacy is a typical debate technique. We see you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been at N Arlington schools (elementary and middle) at peak overcrowding. Trailers for sure. But none of the other things you mention were an issue. Anyway, if it gets that bad they can put Nottingham back in action as a neighbor hood school.

You are wrong about this. Kids have to eat lunch at like ten now at our North Arlington elementary (and middle) schools. Cafeteria cannot accommodate.
And school is not overcrowded because everyone pulled their kid for private.

I don’t hate that trailers although I think it’s hilarious that we have kids in overcrowded schools and trailers rather efficiently use under-enrolled actual school buildings.

And the fact that trailers are a long term solution in Arlington. Our school has had them for probably more than 20 years; definitely more than a decade. That cracks me up as well. Idiots at APS. Cannot plan.

Because we have limited land and budget.

No actually, right now the issue is that we have a dumb plan to close a school and put kids in trailers at other schools.

For all of you who think trailers are just fine, good luck.

You say this as though trailers are a new practice and none of us have experience with them.

I do. They were in fact fine. My kids say they were fine. Calm down.

Look at all these pro APS groupies who are perfectly fine with trailers. Did APS staff find this thread?

I thought trailers were horrible…until my kids actually had classes in them. They truly are not bad at all. My kids (and their teachers) liked it because they had some independence.

Do the people complaining about trailers actually have kids in APS?

Funniest thing I realized recently on AEM. One of the biggest APE loudmouths’ kids just started in APS in the last year or so. So much of that screaming was *before* she even had kids in APS. Some people just enjoy complaining.

Yes a lot of the APEs have very young kids or kids not even in APS. A lot moved to private. They are just really loud but they don't have much actual experience with APS or public schools.

Page 73 of this thread is FILLED with anti-APE statements. How can you say that defending a post defending the predicate for their organization — opening schools — should be blocked and off topic?

Anyone who posts on here in defense of keeping Nottingham opening or questioning the APS staff is labeled “APE.” It appears to me that attackers are using it as a proxy to mean a wealthy, entitled, probably white North Arlingtonian. Again, not in APE, but planning on joining based solely on this thread.

Why is APE relevant to this thread and why are the last dozen comments about them? Do they have an opinion on Nottingham? Or is it because they are the proxy for white entitled North Arlington? Why are people so obsessed with this group? Cue 5 more pages of hysteria.

Yes, APE released a statement to Arlnow that they have concerns about the proposal and the anti-APEs lost their mind because the APEs didn’t speak out on masks but would speak out on this. Or something.

Queue a dozen questions about what their mission does and doesn’t entail and a whole lot of stereotyping nastiness about white North Arlington parents, and here we are.

Cue the queue?

People don't like APE because they are irrational and clueless. Plus, they shat on teachers and other parents for years.

Once again, APE was right about COVID. You were wrong. Your fire breathing is what is irrational here. Get over it. You were wrong.

No, given the info at the time they were not "right".

Huge swaths of this bastion of liberal wokeness wanted it open? What are you talking about? Science and history have judged your case and you were wrong.

Careful, your MAGA is showing, Mr. APE

People who wanted the schools open are not only APE they are also MAGA? Holy cow. You are delusional.

DP. The founder and current board are MAGA.

.

I wanted the schools open. I wasnt in APE. I have nothing to do with APE. You insist I am APE. I have voted democratic for decades. The democrats got the covid issue wrong. I am increasingly disagreeing with APS as I see their planning as short sighted. I am also not a Nottingham parent.

+1. The continuing hostility to people who wanted the schools open when it was objectively the right thing to do (in hindsight) baffles me. And while I’m not the PP, I have kids, and they were in daycare at the time because keeping them home was not a viable option for our family. They were nervous times for sure. A lot of fearmongering about remote risks from keeping schools open (ie healthy kids dying), and a lot of discounting of likely risks from keeping schools closed (ie behavioral problems, speech delays, addiction/suicide).

Overreacting based on limited data and an artificially narrow set of considerations seems to be the APS way. And while I hate how MAGA politicized this thing initially, the Left certainly did its part in locking it in. We have to recognize how we went wrong if we ever hope to do better in future.

Well said. My opinion of Arlington as a whole has been impacted by this. We are less rationale then I thought we were. Objectively, APS made a bad call. For lots of reasons. Some of which were valid. But still, objectively it was a bad call. I honestly can't believe how many in APS still can't or won't see that. It's bizarre. (And yes, I realize I will never change any of your minds.)

You know the saying hindsight is 20/20? I think that applies here. APS wasn’t some weird outlier. All the area schools followed the same protocol. You just don’t live there, so I guess you didn’t notice? Of the DMV districts, APS was one of the smallest, so we weren’t the ones calling this shot when the area schools all decided to do the same thing. Move on, FFS. It’s more damaging to your psyche not to put it behind you than whatever damage the closures caused. It was a once in a lifetime event and we all did the best we could with the information we had. As always, some decisions weren’t the right ones in hindsight, but such is life. And that decision has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Nottingham should remain open now that the area is underenrolled.

Exactly

No, they didn't. For certain groups of kids (K-2 and special ed), they did what was best for the adults and we knew it was bad for these kids while it was happening. What is the big deal to just say it. I'm not mad about that fact anymore. My kids are fine. Some kids are really not fine. But I think the revisionist history is shady. Just say what really happened.

+1

I am still mad that Arlington vaccinated teachers BEFORE old people and then they didn’t go back.

Huh? They did go back after vaccines were readily available. It was very hard to get a vaccine in the beginning.

1). Arlington vaccinated teachers in mid January 2021 when they entered Phase 1B. Vaccines were incredibly hard to come by at the time and the group emergency responders and correctional officers—people who were in fact in person.

2). Phase 1B included people who were 75+, true. So, if you were 74 or a 70 year old resident of Arlington, you could not get a vaccine but teachers—who were not in person—could. It was mind boggling to me at the time.

3). Then, despite this, they started on the ridiculous hybrid model in early March, meaning basically we did not really “return to schools” until August 2021.

Hence, my frustration.

So irrational.
1. Teachers were getting vaccinated as quickly as they could, but it took time. They held multiple clinics and teachers had to wait 2 weeks between shots. It wasn't like they could instantly get everyone vaccinated.
2. They were getting vaccinated so they could return in person. You don't think the county should have prioritized teachers? WTH?
3. They tried to get as many kids in person as they could. Even with the reduced CDC distancing recommendation they still couldn't fit everyone at the same time. Some schools were very overcrowded.

Hence, you are misdirecting your frustrations.

NP. The other people in group 1b were ALREADY at work in-person. Teachers (many who were in no risk group and all who were younger) got prioritized over people 70-74. I agree it was nuts and I thought it was mind boggling at the time.

What other profession where in-person is really required as part of the job made going back in-person conditional on getting vaccinated? I can't think of one.

Also, by March 2021, CDC was down to recommending 3 feet separation in classrooms.

What other occupation comes into sustained contact with a classroom full of germ factories for 6 hours?

I'm sorry. We wanted kids back in the classroom safely. Vaccinating everyone is part of the "safely". People 70-74 could continue stay home for a couple more months.

Right, 3' was the reduced distancing recommendation. It was better than 6' but still tough/impossible to fit all kids back in some schools. Particularly in the cafeterias, on buses, etc.

Er…all the jobs in 1b that never stopped working in person? Pretty pointless to list all the people who kept working in-person during the pandemic.

Why didn't you want teachers vaccinated early? I don't get it.

APE has always been very anti teacher. It's disturbing.

People on these threads need to stop talking about APE, thinking everyone is from APE. I know what it is but other than that pay zero attention to them and never have paid attention to them.

It’s not anti-teacher to point out teachers did not do a lot to boost the impression of their profession during covid. I support teachers and always have and both things can be true.

“Boost the impression”?

The pandemic showed us how little our society values teachers. Why do you think so many are leaving the profession?

I think lack of in-person school created an impact that affected teachers jobs deeply and will for years to come.

It’s not how little we value teachers it’s how little we valued teaching and socializing kids during the pandemic. We prioritized other things and now here we are.

That they were able to pivot so quickly and learn how to teach virtually?

As a community, we could have made better choices and prioritized education over bars/restaurants, etc. But that wasn't something new. Even before the pandemic, we didn't prioritize education. Look at how the County Board DGAF about overcrowding.

Teachers unions and associations did not stand up and say as professionals we know what is happening is harming children. Let’s problem solve together to figure out solutions that keep us safe and serve the kids who will be harmed the most. They did the complete opposite.

Teacher unions aren't a thing in VA. They have/had no power. These decisions were made by the community - county board, school board - not teachers or "teacher unions".

Teachers problem solved to the best of their ability. They can't control any of the aspects of safety (buildings, distancing, testing, etc). Teachers already do so much for our kids. But I don't expect them to lay down their lives - or the lives of their families - for our kids.

Your anger is misdirected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh. I see. It’s the factions that want to keep Nottingham open bringing up covid as an example of APS being wrong. I’m pretty sure that will not be an effective strategy with the Board or the Arlington electorate in general—other than those already disposed towards ape. It’s likely to alienate more potential supporters.

APE likes to think they are the experts.

See? Nothing to see about closing Nottingham. Ad hominem fallacy is a typical debate technique. We see you.

No one cares too much about Nottingham closing because the plan makes sense. Many schools are desperately in need of renovations. It's for the greater good. What else is there to discuss?

APE and teacher haters continue to insert themselves. We'd be happy if they all just went away quietly, but they persist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people relitigating COVID in this thread? Can you please start your own thread to rehash your tired opinions about decisions from 3 years ago? The rest of us are interested in the next 3 years.

It keeps coming back to COVID because people keep equating the people who want to keep Nottingham open with the APE contingent that wanted schools to open during COVID. In both cases, these groups are being attacked as selfish, awful, MAGA, whatever.

People are observing that the APEs may have been right about the whole COVID thing and perhaps weren’t aren’t awful and selfish, but working from a broader set of information or assumptions (or even just a refusal to accept what was then considered as “fact” without question). Other people are getting very defensive in response and insisting that, no, they were right all along and the APEs were awful and selfish then and are awful and selfish now.

The situations are closer than you’d think. Both involve people questioning assumptions and getting attacked for it for being “selfish”. Yeah, it’s driven from a place of self interest, but please find me an example in APS history where everyone acted selflessly with a mind toward the whole and the decision was fantastic. It’s just not how decisions are made anywhere. In the case of COVID, the contrarian view turned out to be right. We discounted factors that became a very big deal later and most people look back and agree it just wasn’t worth it.

Some people are saying the assumptions regarding swing space and what APS is putting out as planning “fact” are not the whole picture and there are serious questions about whether these so called facts and assumptions are worth closing an established school community in a broader community that needs seats.

With that being said, let’s put behind the history. People who were right and people who would have chosen differently in hindsight. Good planning doesn’t mean you seek out opportunities to rain your version of planning karma on people you believe hurt you in the past. The kids deserve better, ok? The taxpayers deserve better. APS planning messes up a lot, unfortunately, and it’s our job to keep them honest and tethered to reality and what this community wants for its schools.

Pretty funny for you to keep insisting you were right all along, but then in the same breath you attack those who disagree with you for doing the same thing.

The reason people won't stop talking about APE is because they won't stop talking and trying to influence things.

+1

Why are they commenting on Nottingham at all?

They haven't.