Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anybody else catch that there may be some sort of twist with Alaska? They mentioned that it was the last numbers to report (and still hadn't reported at the end of the episode) and it's there that Connor actually had some votes......

In his concession speech, Connor warned America that the Conheads are coming. Willa looked horrified.

[Anonymous]

Shout-out to the hair stylists for making the female ATN anchors' blond hair look like Fox anchors'.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

Same here. ATN wanted to put some wind under Mencken's wings for the upcoming reckoning about Milwaukee. But presumably we'll hear more about both Milwaukee and the other networks' calls next week.

I don't think Tom will get fired over the call. Look at what happened over at Fox last presidential election, and I wouldn't say ATN's management and owners are better than at Fox. Tom's reputation will take a hit though. They'll probably fire the numbers guy who didn't want to call it.

Did you see the previews for next week? Everyone is blaming Tom.

ATN called it for Mencken in exchange for him to act like he wants it to be fair and go through the courts. So they will throw ATN under the bus.

What preview are you talking about? The one after the episode was all about the funeral. I don’t think Tom was even in the preview.

Sorry, it was the last scene in the episode. Greg says "your phone is red hot" and Tom is watching other networks say Tom was in the wrong.

I think Tom will be squarely thrown under the bus here. I don't think the show ends with us knowing Tom's fate at ATN, but likely knowing that Tom has been ousted from the Roy inner circle. The other possibility is that Tom more or less blackmails the Roys/Shiv to keep his spot. I think it's 50/50. I don't think we see much more in detail about the election because the outcome doesn't matter to any of them other than they have Mencken who will torpedo their deal.

I don't have a read on what happens at the end. This episode had several interesting turns as far as who might seize power at Waystar - Roman being ruthless and focused in a way we haven't really seen before. Greg betraying Shiv. Shiv floundering, totally out of her depth. Tom also floundering. Kendall mumbling like a big pile of mush while he tries to claw back a semblance of family life.

The preview for next week has Roman practicing a speech where he clearly intends to claim his father's legacy as his own.

I think Roman is being set up for a major fail at the funeral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

My impression of Willa is that she is simply not that political at all and doesn't care about any of it. She knows some semi-political people who hate Menken because he's a Nazi, but she's always speaking out of self interest (she didn't want to move to Oman, now that Connor for sure is 100% losing, she likes the idea of bouncing around Europe with all their money).

Honestly, I knew lots of young people like this back in 2016. Had never voted before, were maybe vaguely left-leaning based purely on peer group attitudes, but had so little interest in politics that is was really more of a cultural association than an actual political belief. Some of pop them woke up enough to vote against Trump (or succumbed to the urging of others) but some didn't. Especially if you are in an economically advantaged position, it's very easy to ignore politics, which are "a bummer" to people who are very shallow and self-interested.

Politics is a “bummer” cause it is, not because one might be shallow or self-interested. All these politicians in both parties are moral failure, liar, grifter types. They’re weirdo narcissists, yes even your personal heroes. Nothing is ever fixed, the poor stay poor, the rich stay rich, global warming continues unabated, the cities are on fire, our schools are global jokes, and thieves and scoundrels walk free.

So yeah, politics is a “bummer”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom seemed really surprised about the pregnancy, I think. But I agree an abortion won't happen. Sure, Shiv could probably pay somebody enough to do it, even as far a long as she is. She might even be thinking about an abortion and she told Tom just to be extra cruel to him. But now that he knows, he can stop it, maybe legally (I'm not sure), maybe by telling her family or by threatening to leak to the news that she's having a late-term abortion. And Shiv knows this. So I don't think she would have told Tom unless she was planning to have the baby.

I like Willa more and more. She was supportive of Collin, but she also expressed her reservations about Mencken. At least as much as the spouse-and-former-escort of the least important sibling has any leeway to express reservations.

She wasn't just supportive of him, she was using him as her puppet. She knew that Connor staying in the race would help get a Democrat in the White House and she told him not to drop out (he said she was the only one he was listening to). Even though it cost them over $100 million. How could any far left democrat marry into that family. Total gold digger. I have zero respect for her.

My impression of Willa is that she is simply not that political at all and doesn't care about any of it. She knows some semi-political people who hate Menken because he's a Nazi, but she's always speaking out of self interest (she didn't want to move to Oman, now that Connor for sure is 100% losing, she likes the idea of bouncing around Europe with all their money).

Honestly, I knew lots of young people like this back in 2016. Had never voted before, were maybe vaguely left-leaning based purely on peer group attitudes, but had so little interest in politics that is was really more of a cultural association than an actual political belief. Some of pop them woke up enough to vote against Trump (or succumbed to the urging of others) but some didn't. Especially if you are in an economically advantaged position, it's very easy to ignore politics, which are "a bummer" to people who are very shallow and self-interested.

Politics is a “bummer” cause it is, not because one might be shallow or self-interested. All these politicians in both parties are moral failure, liar, grifter types. They’re weirdo narcissists, yes even your personal heroes. Nothing is ever fixed, the poor stay poor, the rich stay rich, global warming continues unabated, the cities are on fire, our schools are global jokes, and thieves and scoundrels walk free.

So yeah, politics is a “bummer”.

You get that I wasn't saying I think politics is a bummer, just that Willa is reflective of a type of person who just doesn't pay attention to politics because it's not easy or fun or satisfying. Right? You don't need to lecture me about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They can't leave the GoJo deal and Waystar's fate hanging. If the show ends in two days but the Mencken election is winding its way through the courts, they'll have to find another way to wrap up the GoJo plotline. I don't know what that would look like, but Waystar and GoJo have financial dirt on each other.

I don't know that we know for sure that the last episode will take place the day after the funeral. The show has not actually been one day per episode thus far -- the episodes in Norway and LA both span multiple days, for instance. Some episodes, like last night's, only cover a handful of hours.

I could see the last episode taking place the day after the funeral, but I could also see it being a big jump forward, or covering multiple days over a larger time period. It's the series finale so I think honestly anything could happen in terms of timeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

I love the show. I'm not a simpleton who needs all the characters in a story to be likable or sympathetic in order to get something out of the story itself.

Who exactly do you LIKE on the show, and why? I don't mean who do you find funny (I think they can all be quite funny) or whose story you are interested in (I find the story fascinating), I mean who do you actually like as in "I think this is a cool person and I would be friends with them in real life"?

Since you're lecturing me now. You're either making this up or reading far more into peoples' posts here than they're actually saying. I don't think anybody here actually *likes* or "would be friends with" ANY of them, except for maybe Willa and Tom, and even Tom dropped off the "like" list when he revealed his bad side. Nobody, but nobody, here has said they want to "friends" with Shiv or Roman or Kendall or Collin. Sure, one poster thought Roman would be fun to have over to dinner, but even that was because he's amusing to listen to, not because "I want to be BFFs with Roman."

It's a lesser of multiple evils thing, can you see that?

You don't seem to understand the difference between rooting for a character vs. actually "liking" them or "wanting to be friends" with them.

Which makes it strange that you keep coming on to lecture us all about fangirling the characters. I think I'll ignore you from now on.

The only person lecturing is you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Roman would make a terrible dinner guest, FTR.

Agree that Roman would make an obnoxious dinner guest.

But you can't lob your "Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win" and pretend you're not up on your high horse again. You seem to think you're the only one who understands the whole point of the show is that these billionaires are screwing the little people. But we all get it.

I'm asserting a point of view, not lecturing. If you feel implicated, defend yourself. I'm not going to apologize for criticizing or looking down on people who, in my opinion, watch this show in a naive way. It's what I think.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if any of the characters will get a spin-off in a few years. Not Kendall or Roman because there's really nowhere else for them but Waystar, which would be the same show on repeat, and nobody wants to watch Roman lying around on a yacht.

But Shiv in Hollywood. Tom starts over somewhere else. Even Connor egging on the Conheads from Slovenia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

I love the show. I'm not a simpleton who needs all the characters in a story to be likable or sympathetic in order to get something out of the story itself.

Who exactly do you LIKE on the show, and why? I don't mean who do you find funny (I think they can all be quite funny) or whose story you are interested in (I find the story fascinating), I mean who do you actually like as in "I think this is a cool person and I would be friends with them in real life"?

Since you're lecturing me now. You're either making this up or reading far more into peoples' posts here than they're actually saying. I don't think anybody here actually *likes* or "would be friends with" ANY of them, except for maybe Willa and Tom, and even Tom dropped off the "like" list when he revealed his bad side. Nobody, but nobody, here has said they want to "friends" with Shiv or Roman or Kendall or Collin. Sure, one poster thought Roman would be fun to have over to dinner, but even that was because he's amusing to listen to, not because "I want to be BFFs with Roman."

It's a lesser of multiple evils thing, can you see that?

You don't seem to understand the difference between rooting for a character vs. actually "liking" them or "wanting to be friends" with them.

Which makes it strange that you keep coming on to lecture us all about fangirling the characters. I think I'll ignore you from now on.

The only person lecturing is you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Roman would make a terrible dinner guest, FTR.

Agree that Roman would make an obnoxious dinner guest.

But you can't lob your "Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win" and pretend you're not up on your high horse again. You seem to think you're the only one who understands the whole point of the show is that these billionaires are screwing the little people. But we all get it.

I'm asserting a point of view, not lecturing. If you feel implicated, defend yourself. I'm not going to apologize for criticizing or looking down on people who, in my opinion, watch this show in a naive way. It's what I think.

DP. Ugh. You think you're the only one who truly gets it and the rest of us are naive.

You're deluded. You don't have a monopoly on interpretation and exegesis. You're not the only sophisticate here, even if you're the only one who repeatedly nominates herself for the honor. It's not rocket science to see the show is about the general suckiness of billionaires and politicians. Of course the rest of us get it. Only in your fevered imagination does anybody want to be "friends" with Roman or any of the others. We're just able to have a little fun on the way, even those of us who loathed the previous administration. True sophistication is the ability to see complexity and degrees of awfulness.

Here's a question for you. Do you think Hollywood ever, ever runs a show where the only goal is to lecture viewers? As you're doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR got it exactly right:

"The tension in Succession has always been that everybody knew these people were terrible, but they were also human. They could be, in some moments, kind or funny or even insightful. They could certainly be legitimately in pain. Still terrible people — but rounded-out human characters with stories and arcs. This episode is the one where I think the fundamental point of the entire enterprise is made: Their complicated humanity is genuine but so what? Sad, jealous, hurt, abused, mistreated, conflicted, they are all these things. But they operate upon the wider world as instruments of destruction in the lives of real people, and in this episode, the magnitude of that destruction is pushed right up to the front edge of the stage."

Yes to all of this -- I can tell it's Linda Holmes without checking and she nails it.

Waiting for the posters who want to tell us all that the show "isn't that deep!" and that it's still fun to pick one of these grotesque humans and root for them to win. Or the poster who though Roman would make a fun dinner guest.

It's all fun and games until the little billionaire sociopaths destroy democracy and get a bunch of people killed. And even then, it's still a game to them.

Why do you even watch if you hate the show and everybody in it so much?

I love the show. I'm not a simpleton who needs all the characters in a story to be likable or sympathetic in order to get something out of the story itself.

Who exactly do you LIKE on the show, and why? I don't mean who do you find funny (I think they can all be quite funny) or whose story you are interested in (I find the story fascinating), I mean who do you actually like as in "I think this is a cool person and I would be friends with them in real life"?

Since you're lecturing me now. You're either making this up or reading far more into peoples' posts here than they're actually saying. I don't think anybody here actually *likes* or "would be friends with" ANY of them, except for maybe Willa and Tom, and even Tom dropped off the "like" list when he revealed his bad side. Nobody, but nobody, here has said they want to "friends" with Shiv or Roman or Kendall or Collin. Sure, one poster thought Roman would be fun to have over to dinner, but even that was because he's amusing to listen to, not because "I want to be BFFs with Roman."

It's a lesser of multiple evils thing, can you see that?

You don't seem to understand the difference between rooting for a character vs. actually "liking" them or "wanting to be friends" with them.

Which makes it strange that you keep coming on to lecture us all about fangirling the characters. I think I'll ignore you from now on.

Brand NP. You guys don't really sound like you're disagreeing with each other, but you, immediate pp, seem to be reading much more negativity and judgement into pp's posts than is actually there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shout-out to the hair stylists for making the female ATN anchors' blond hair look like Fox anchors'.

Totally agree!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if any of the characters will get a spin-off in a few years. Not Kendall or Roman because there's really nowhere else for them but Waystar, which would be the same show on repeat, and nobody wants to watch Roman lying around on a yacht.

But Shiv in Hollywood. Tom starts over somewhere else. Even Connor egging on the Conheads from Slovenia.

I could see a Connor and Willa show, especially since they are much more fringe characters on Succession. Like a show about their marriage and Connor's delusional career aspirations (and Willa's delusional career aspirations, too, if she continues to "write"). I could see that being really interesting and kind of Veep-ish because they are both almost likable due to how un-self-aware they are, yet their actions are ultimately vile.

I don't think they could do a Shiv spin-off. I think we'll see her narrative arc close. Tom, maybe. I do find myself wondering what post-Shiv Tom even looks like. Within the context of the Roy family, Tom always feels like an underdog and outsider, but sometimes you get the sense there is a version of him that is a competent go-getter (and other times he feels like someone who has failed upwards, it's honestly hard to read). Matthew Macfadyen is so amazing that I'd trust him to make that story compelling.

I'd watch either of those.

[Anonymous]

I thought this was a dumb episode. I think this season is bad. The writers are doing some sort of weird fantasy reenactment of 2020 but it pulled me out of the world of the show and they didn’t say anything worthwhile about it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They can't leave the GoJo deal and Waystar's fate hanging. If the show ends in two days but the Mencken election is winding its way through the courts, they'll have to find another way to wrap up the GoJo plotline. I don't know what that would look like, but Waystar and GoJo have financial dirt on each other.

I don't know that we know for sure that the last episode will take place the day after the funeral. The show has not actually been one day per episode thus far -- the episodes in Norway and LA both span multiple days, for instance. Some episodes, like last night's, only cover a handful of hours.

I could see the last episode taking place the day after the funeral, but I could also see it being a big jump forward, or covering multiple days over a larger time period. It's the series finale so I think honestly anything could happen in terms of timeline.

I'm throwing my hat in the ring for a jump forward prediction. Maybe a few months at least, but it depends on what happens in the next episode.

One reason is Shiv's pregnancy. If there is not a larger plot point with that then it's really been a waste of time. It's this weird loose end - Shiv knows, the Dr. knows, and now Tom knows, ok. But to what end?

I also think they have to do something to resolve the Waystar/GoJo deal. I think it falls apart, but the why could be a lot of things. Aren't the kids still supposed to buy Pierce? I don't remember if the Pierce deal was contingent on Wayster/GoJo going through. I felt like the last Cherry Jones appearance was her final appearance on the show though.

I did feel like this episode set the stage for the major players and signaled that the old guard are going to remain the old guard and the Stewy and Sandy crew may be in the mix, but not a main focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They can't leave the GoJo deal and Waystar's fate hanging. If the show ends in two days but the Mencken election is winding its way through the courts, they'll have to find another way to wrap up the GoJo plotline. I don't know what that would look like, but Waystar and GoJo have financial dirt on each other.

I don't know that we know for sure that the last episode will take place the day after the funeral. The show has not actually been one day per episode thus far -- the episodes in Norway and LA both span multiple days, for instance. Some episodes, like last night's, only cover a handful of hours.

I could see the last episode taking place the day after the funeral, but I could also see it being a big jump forward, or covering multiple days over a larger time period. It's the series finale so I think honestly anything could happen in terms of timeline.

I'm throwing my hat in the ring for a jump forward prediction. Maybe a few months at least, but it depends on what happens in the next episode.

One reason is Shiv's pregnancy. If there is not a larger plot point with that then it's really been a waste of time. It's this weird loose end - Shiv knows, the Dr. knows, and now Tom knows, ok. But to what end?

I also think they have to do something to resolve the Waystar/GoJo deal. I think it falls apart, but the why could be a lot of things. Aren't the kids still supposed to buy Pierce? I don't remember if the Pierce deal was contingent on Wayster/GoJo going through. I felt like the last Cherry Jones appearance was her final appearance on the show though.

I did feel like this episode set the stage for the major players and signaled that the old guard are going to remain the old guard and the Stewy and Sandy crew may be in the mix, but not a main focus.

A jump forward would make resolving a lot of these plot lines easier. But it seems out of keeping with the pace so far. Every episode is a day, or max 2-3 days, and then we jump forward 8 months to see Shiv nursing her baby (or not)? It seems fractured to me.