Budget Frustration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s frustrating that we seem to have lost our minds money wise by buying this house and getting this promotion. Back in 2017 we made $300, rented and had saved $400k in cash.

Then we plowed it into this house, and between the endless repairs, furnish it, and pay people to help keep it running (gutters, trees, chimneys, yard, pests) it’s just wiped us out financially and time wise.

I think a big part is DW is depressed from her job, and that stresses me out, and that’s part of our dysfunction and we try to make life easier as a result, which burns money.

I agree you over-extended on your house and selling that is probably the answer... but not to return to renting, obviously.

I disagree- maybe they should return to renting, just rent a house in Silver Spring rather than an apartment; put the $400K in equity in their house in the market?

Or, buy a $500K house in Silver Spring or Rockville and let your wife quit her job outright; save the $1600/mo in childcare towards kids' college funds. Hell, even if you put the $400K into a $750K Rockville or North Potomac house, your mortgage payment can stay around $2000 PITI and your wife can decrease her hours, etc.

Wait why does the wife have to quit her job? Who even suggested that's what any of them want?!

Gd the sexism on this board!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NP - and I feel like there is some inherent sexism in this response. OP tells us he has a family friendly job that is stable, and that, with his spouse's previous income, let them live this UMC life. It's the spouse who decided to cut back - without, it sounds, OP's input or them working together to figure out how this will work. Why does OP have to ramp up a career to maintain this high flying lifestyle? Why can't they figure out how to budget for this as a family? Or decide together as a family how to navigate this next stage? I don't think it's fair to put all of this on OP - especially when it reads (to me, maybe I am being too sensitive) like some of this "well you'll just have to get a bigger job, of course" advise is because he is the man.

I'm not saying they are in the ideal position. But OP doesn't seem to want to live as large as the spouse, who decided to step back in work and whose income was necessary to live this large. It seems like the spouse should be willing to make some of the lfiestyle sacrifices that come along with having an easier job.

Citation needed. OP is the one saying "travel is our only splurge" when it's extremely clear that is not the case, and that he can't cut costs and he won't stop spending on each individual category pointed out in 9 pages where he could make cuts. It's easy to say OP's spouse is demanding when she's not here to give her side. Here's another angle - he's had the relaxed job for 15 years while she's been grinding it out financing their lifestyle. Why shouldn't she get to enjoy some work/life balance? Why is it verboten to ask the one who's had the easy ride to step up a bit so the other one can step down? This gets said to moms who mommy-tracked all the time on these boards when the youngest gets to school age (as OP's is now). It's not sexist to say it to him just because he's a man.

I think the problem is the second OP revealed he was a man making the smaller salary he felt insecure about it and had to add "but I'm great at my job and people always want to hire me" and when people said, well why not take them up on it and make more money? it became "You would never say that to a woman/ you hate men!" No, this is a money and finance board. They have a balance sheet problem that can be fixed either by lowering expenses (all recommendations for which have been shot down) or by increasing income (and he refuses to comment on his spouse's salary and gets indignant about his own). So what's the point of coming to this board with the question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I have read through all seven pages.

My rambling thoughts:

I think a salary of $150k is perfectly acceptable, even more so that is comes with family life balance. It also sounds like it allows for no need for before/after school.

I, too, curious as to what are the changes that your spouse is making to go from $250k to $100k. That sounds drastic. Are there no options between? Maybe you could post on the jobs for ideas.

Anecdotal to be sure, but DH and I ended up saving around $160k per child on less than $200k a year - but for two children not three. When we started out, it was more like $100k. However, that is neither here nor there as we did quite a few things differently before our children were tweens.

You can still travel, it just has to be done much more cheaply. If travel is important, then cancel the beach trip. Find AirBnbs and do most of your eating there. Find the cheap things to do in cities. Have more picnics. Plan more. I found that getting cheap airfare was easier - so look where the cheap airfare is and plan your trips around that. You make also be able to do a house exchange for free housing and possibly free car.

If your DW can stand to work at her current job a bit more, live on the new proposed income for six months and save the delta. Then you can see if you can do it and you will have a nest egg at the end.

How much equity is in the house? How much is in 401ks and IRAs? Any pensions?

When did you buy your house? If you are talking about having to still buy furniture and yard stuff, it sounds like you bought it in the last year. Did your older children have to change schools when you moved? Can you go back to living in an apartment?

Could you please do an s/o where you explain the nitty gritty of how you saved $160k a year on a $200k income? We live fairly modestly on a similar income with no kids and I can't imagine how you'd do that (without making some extreme choices, like everyone piling into a trailer on public land)

NP and if you just take the money you save from the kids being out of daycare and put $1K into savings per month for 13 years you would have $212K at a 5% rate of return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP - and I feel like there is some inherent sexism in this response. OP tells us he has a family friendly job that is stable, and that, with his spouse's previous income, let them live this UMC life. It's the spouse who decided to cut back - without, it sounds, OP's input or them working together to figure out how this will work. Why does OP have to ramp up a career to maintain this high flying lifestyle? Why can't they figure out how to budget for this as a family? Or decide together as a family how to navigate this next stage? I don't think it's fair to put all of this on OP - especially when it reads (to me, maybe I am being too sensitive) like some of this "well you'll just have to get a bigger job, of course" advise is because he is the man.

I'm not saying they are in the ideal position. But OP doesn't seem to want to live as large as the spouse, who decided to step back in work and whose income was necessary to live this large. It seems like the spouse should be willing to make some of the lfiestyle sacrifices that come along with having an easier job.

Citation needed. OP is the one saying "travel is our only splurge" when it's extremely clear that is not the case, and that he can't cut costs and he won't stop spending on each individual category pointed out in 9 pages where he could make cuts. It's easy to say OP's spouse is demanding when she's not here to give her side. Here's another angle - he's had the relaxed job for 15 years while she's been grinding it out financing their lifestyle. Why shouldn't she get to enjoy some work/life balance? Why is it verboten to ask the one who's had the easy ride to step up a bit so the other one can step down? This gets said to moms who mommy-tracked all the time on these boards when the youngest gets to school age (as OP's is now). It's not sexist to say it to him just because he's a man.

I think the problem is the second OP revealed he was a man making the smaller salary he felt insecure about it and had to add "but I'm great at my job and people always want to hire me" and when people said, well why not take them up on it and make more money? it became "You would never say that to a woman/ you hate men!" No, this is a money and finance board. They have a balance sheet problem that can be fixed either by lowering expenses (all recommendations for which have been shot down) or by increasing income (and he refuses to comment on his spouse's salary and gets indignant about his own). So what's the point of coming to this board with the question?

I'm not saying OP is great with money. But saving a few hundred here and there on groceries and yard equipment, and kids going to a camp that's $250 a week instead of $250, is not going to be the difference between comfortably affording a $1.2 million house that needs lots of repairs and not. That's a house you buy when you have a big income you can count on. Not when you and your spouse have taken lower stress jobs. Then, you live where the normal UMC people live, not where the"comfortable" UMC people live. OP not recognizing that grocery bills are kinda high is not going to change that they no longer have the income for a $1.2 million house, so either one of them has to earn more or they have to move. And it sounds like neither spouse is in a position where they want to step up and get a big job - and I think it's frankly just toxic sexism that as soon as OP revealed himself as the husband, that's where people went.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP - and I feel like there is some inherent sexism in this response. OP tells us he has a family friendly job that is stable, and that, with his spouse's previous income, let them live this UMC life. It's the spouse who decided to cut back - without, it sounds, OP's input or them working together to figure out how this will work. Why does OP have to ramp up a career to maintain this high flying lifestyle? Why can't they figure out how to budget for this as a family? Or decide together as a family how to navigate this next stage? I don't think it's fair to put all of this on OP - especially when it reads (to me, maybe I am being too sensitive) like some of this "well you'll just have to get a bigger job, of course" advise is because he is the man.

I'm not saying they are in the ideal position. But OP doesn't seem to want to live as large as the spouse, who decided to step back in work and whose income was necessary to live this large. It seems like the spouse should be willing to make some of the lfiestyle sacrifices that come along with having an easier job.

Citation needed. OP is the one saying "travel is our only splurge" when it's extremely clear that is not the case, and that he can't cut costs and he won't stop spending on each individual category pointed out in 9 pages where he could make cuts. It's easy to say OP's spouse is demanding when she's not here to give her side. Here's another angle - he's had the relaxed job for 15 years while she's been grinding it out financing their lifestyle. Why shouldn't she get to enjoy some work/life balance? Why is it verboten to ask the one who's had the easy ride to step up a bit so the other one can step down? This gets said to moms who mommy-tracked all the time on these boards when the youngest gets to school age (as OP's is now). It's not sexist to say it to him just because he's a man.

I think the problem is the second OP revealed he was a man making the smaller salary he felt insecure about it and had to add "but I'm great at my job and people always want to hire me" and when people said, well why not take them up on it and make more money? it became "You would never say that to a woman/ you hate men!" No, this is a money and finance board. They have a balance sheet problem that can be fixed either by lowering expenses (all recommendations for which have been shot down) or by increasing income (and he refuses to comment on his spouse's salary and gets indignant about his own). So what's the point of coming to this board with the question?

Ha, so funny. I know I NEVER said I was great at my job, I just said I had applied and interviewed and even got a few offers — but NONE paid anymore than I make now, and none had clear path to higher pay and ALL were way less stable with longer hours. If I had a single offer paying $180k, I would be GONE. I have no idea how to boost my salary, no role models in my career except business development contractor leads who I THINK break $200k, but they are super cagey with me since I am just a individual contributor.

But my point was whoever was the “DH” was asked to make more money. At first it was why “DH” was taking such a big pay cut, unacceptable. And then when realized it was me who was DH, it was why I can’t make more money.

My job is hardly relaxed, it’s just more so than hers. All of my peers are the prime earners in their families, their DW are all teachers, preschool, some part time admin role, or SAH. Of course none live close in but they don’t need to, hence why I’m happy to move and live their lifestyle. Cheaper mortgage, plenty of cash flow for college, vacation, and organic vegetables (I know I know, I live the lifestyle of the 1% with heirloom tomatoes, HEIRLOOM).

But travel, organic (healthy in DW eyes) food, and housing are the hot button issues in our house, hard to make change. Definitely shopping should taper off as we settle in have basic household equipment. And cleaner will end when job change happens, as we will have more time.

But if everything else is normal enough spending wise, I guess we’re stuck. I’ll try to get a side hustle until my salary rises enough from COL to make mortgage manageable. Hopefully DW career options are not as limited as she feels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP - and I feel like there is some inherent sexism in this response. OP tells us he has a family friendly job that is stable, and that, with his spouse's previous income, let them live this UMC life. It's the spouse who decided to cut back - without, it sounds, OP's input or them working together to figure out how this will work. Why does OP have to ramp up a career to maintain this high flying lifestyle? Why can't they figure out how to budget for this as a family? Or decide together as a family how to navigate this next stage? I don't think it's fair to put all of this on OP - especially when it reads (to me, maybe I am being too sensitive) like some of this "well you'll just have to get a bigger job, of course" advise is because he is the man.

I'm not saying they are in the ideal position. But OP doesn't seem to want to live as large as the spouse, who decided to step back in work and whose income was necessary to live this large. It seems like the spouse should be willing to make some of the lfiestyle sacrifices that come along with having an easier job.

Citation needed. OP is the one saying "travel is our only splurge" when it's extremely clear that is not the case, and that he can't cut costs and he won't stop spending on each individual category pointed out in 9 pages where he could make cuts. It's easy to say OP's spouse is demanding when she's not here to give her side. Here's another angle - he's had the relaxed job for 15 years while she's been grinding it out financing their lifestyle. Why shouldn't she get to enjoy some work/life balance? Why is it verboten to ask the one who's had the easy ride to step up a bit so the other one can step down? This gets said to moms who mommy-tracked all the time on these boards when the youngest gets to school age (as OP's is now). It's not sexist to say it to him just because he's a man.

I think the problem is the second OP revealed he was a man making the smaller salary he felt insecure about it and had to add "but I'm great at my job and people always want to hire me" and when people said, well why not take them up on it and make more money? it became "You would never say that to a woman/ you hate men!" No, this is a money and finance board. They have a balance sheet problem that can be fixed either by lowering expenses (all recommendations for which have been shot down) or by increasing income (and he refuses to comment on his spouse's salary and gets indignant about his own). So what's the point of coming to this board with the question?

Ha, so funny. I know I NEVER said I was great at my job, I just said I had applied and interviewed and even got a few offers — but NONE paid anymore than I make now, and none had clear path to higher pay and ALL were way less stable with longer hours. If I had a single offer paying $180k, I would be GONE. I have no idea how to boost my salary, no role models in my career except business development contractor leads who I THINK break $200k, but they are super cagey with me since I am just a individual contributor.

But my point was whoever was the “DH” was asked to make more money. At first it was why “DH” was taking such a big pay cut, unacceptable. And then when realized it was me who was DH, it was why I can’t make more money.

My job is hardly relaxed, it’s just more so than hers. All of my peers are the prime earners in their families, their DW are all teachers, preschool, some part time admin role, or SAH. Of course none live close in but they don’t need to, hence why I’m happy to move and live their lifestyle. Cheaper mortgage, plenty of cash flow for college, vacation, and organic vegetables (I know I know, I live the lifestyle of the 1% with heirloom tomatoes, HEIRLOOM).

But travel, organic (healthy in DW eyes) food, and housing are the hot button issues in our house, hard to make change. Definitely shopping should taper off as we settle in have basic household equipment. And cleaner will end when job change happens, as we will have more time.

But if everything else is normal enough spending wise, I guess we’re stuck. I’ll try to get a side hustle until my salary rises enough from COL to make mortgage manageable. Hopefully DW career options are not as limited as she feels.

Your point continues to be wrong. The suggestions were for the person who could make more money based on the proffered facts to make more money. When it was the person taking a huge paycut the suggestion is obvious - they shouldn't have to lose that much income to switch jobs; they've shown you can make more. Then you said you get job offers all the time and the same suggestion was made of you. I get that you want to feel victimized, but people suggesting every possible way for you to save money or make more money (sell your house, cut spending, lower your grocery bill, knock off one or two of the vacations, move to the suburbs, one spouse gets a better job, the other spouse gets a better job, rent out your basement) are not sexist because exactly one of those suggestions is directed at a man. It's only the "primary focus" because you made it that by whining that anyone would ever ask anything of you, when clearly you are not the problem, it's your profligate wife! But considering you're still saying "everything else is normal enough spending wise" after 100+ comments of people telling you that no, your spending is not normal, it is extravagant in many separate categories . . . you need to consider that you might in fact be part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I have read through all seven pages.

My rambling thoughts:

I think a salary of $150k is perfectly acceptable, even more so that is comes with family life balance. It also sounds like it allows for no need for before/after school.

I, too, curious as to what are the changes that your spouse is making to go from $250k to $100k. That sounds drastic. Are there no options between? Maybe you could post on the jobs for ideas.

Anecdotal to be sure, but DH and I ended up saving around $160k per child on less than $200k a year - but for two children not three. When we started out, it was more like $100k. However, that is neither here nor there as we did quite a few things differently before our children were tweens.

You can still travel, it just has to be done much more cheaply. If travel is important, then cancel the beach trip. Find AirBnbs and do most of your eating there. Find the cheap things to do in cities. Have more picnics. Plan more. I found that getting cheap airfare was easier - so look where the cheap airfare is and plan your trips around that. You make also be able to do a house exchange for free housing and possibly free car.

If your DW can stand to work at her current job a bit more, live on the new proposed income for six months and save the delta. Then you can see if you can do it and you will have a nest egg at the end.

How much equity is in the house? How much is in 401ks and IRAs? Any pensions?

When did you buy your house? If you are talking about having to still buy furniture and yard stuff, it sounds like you bought it in the last year. Did your older children have to change schools when you moved? Can you go back to living in an apartment?

Could you please do an s/o where you explain the nitty gritty of how you saved $160k a year on a $200k income? We live fairly modestly on a similar income with no kids and I can't imagine how you'd do that (without making some extreme choices, like everyone piling into a trailer on public land)

we saved $160k per child not per year.

[Anonymous]

I make 160k a year and have more kids and a more expensive house. But then I have not been on vacation in 5 years. Send kids to camps, eat organic, pay parents cell phone plan and do my own home repairs, clean my own house and cook our own meals

Welcome to the real world

[Anonymous]

How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

NP here. Organic food and convenience food (precut fruit and veggies, prepared food and meals ready to heat.) It adds up quickly. They need to ditch organic and good from scratch/mostly scratch.

I think OP needs a budgeting app - doesn’t sound like he has a good handle on where all there money is going and what they could do without.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

NP here. Organic food and convenience food (precut fruit and veggies, prepared food and meals ready to heat.) It adds up quickly. They need to ditch organic and good from scratch/mostly scratch.

I think OP needs a budgeting app - doesn’t sound like he has a good handle on where all there money is going and what they could do without.

We buy ZERO prepared food or pre-cut food, but do have frozen food like fish sticks around for kids to cook themselves in a pinch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

Well if you refuse to give anything up, then one of you has to earn more money. It’s basic math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

Well if you refuse to give anything up, then one of you has to earn more money. It’s basic math.

My question was does that sound like outlandish grocery items, or just likely that the stores near us have higher prices? I haven’t driven to Germantown to comparison shop yet, but that is my impression. Or should we eat less fruit etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How in the world do you spend $1500 per MONTH on groceries?

Do you feed an entire football team?

That is my [b]rent[b] each month. RENT.

This isn’t about organic or fancy cuts of meat, this is us shopping at the grocery stores near us. We compared prices between Giant, Safeway, Moms, and Tj and they were all about the same. It’s when you go to further suburbs that prices drop, not when you pick the $1 tomato vs the $1.10 organic tomato. Also, things like Aldi, Lidl, Costco can help a LOT.

We go through a lot of fresh fruit, that’s expensive. Maybe to fruit baskets a week? 2 gallons of milk. 4 dozen eggs. 10 boxes of tofu. Then 3 heads of cauliflower, a box of spinach, romaine hearts, dozen tomatoes, box of cherry tomatoes, 2 boxes of celery, 2 loaves of French bread, 1 loaf of sliced bread. Two yogurts. That’s probably weekly staples.

That is a lot of expensive food. If you want to eat healthy but eat more cheaply, try buying rice and dried beans in bulk and eating them at least 3-4 times/week. And make your own hummus. Also, if you want to eat healthy, why are you buying french bread? it is just empty calories.