It’s Over USWNT exposed by age, tactics, and team selection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

[Anonymous]

I have really enjoyed watching Rapinoe's career, giver her big credit for last WC, and she and Christen Press in particular are models for how I would like my kids to play. But Rapinoe looks so tired out there sometimes, and slow. In a way, similar to how Abby Wambach was easing through games at the end of her career -- almost like playing a pickup game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

Nope, criticism's fair game. But if you've followed any of the USWNT threads on this board, there are posters who very much want to see them fail. That's not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have really enjoyed watching Rapinoe's career, giver her big credit for last WC, and she and Christen Press in particular are models for how I would like my kids to play. But Rapinoe looks so tired out there sometimes, and slow. In a way, similar to how Abby Wambach was easing through games at the end of her career -- almost like playing a pickup game.

Rapinoe looked the same in the last World Cup as she does today. She struggles in the NWSL. In her prime she was a roll player but she did the dirty work so the star players could shine. She was okay in that roll but it seems she has lost her passion for the game before last World Cup. Rose Lavelle and Dunn were the stars of the last World Cup. They both sacrificed their game for the team. This is the opposite of what Rapinoe does. A lot of times she is out of position, seems uninterested without the ball, will turn the ball over with no pressure(she is not alone in that) and walks when she should be helping on defense. Now Rapinoe non soccer stuff is great. This is the only reason she is on the USWNT at this point. If your kid plays like Rapinoe he or she will be cut/demoted.

Press is a much better player - high motor, good technical skills, good without the ball, can work in tight spaces, great without the ball, willing to track back on defense, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man city women will either sign players directly from their youth teams (U17-U19) into the first team (if the player is youth national team caliber), or sign established players from around the league or Europe.

A 22 year old out of the US is not signing with Manchester Anything... unless you you would have gone #1, #2, or #3 in the NWSL draft but decided to go to Man City instead.

You have to remember the USWNT contract requires the players to play domestically. They let them play oversea because of the pandemic. Wonder how the new agreement will address this.

That's not true at all. Dahlkamper is playing for Manchester City. Press and Heath are currently without a club. Macario has never played domestically and skipped the NWSL draft to play in Lyon. Not sure where you got that idea from but it isn't accurate.

That said, there is huge incentive for them to play in the NWSL because they can get more money and the desire to support the league. But the competition increase in Europe is going to attract better players from the U.S. who want to play Champions League and that's a good thing because all the European countries are improving a significant rate due to the improvements in club football.

Look Jill Ellis made it clear to USWNT player if you go overseas you will not be on the USWNT. It changed when she moved on. During the pandemic Vlatko allowed players to go without penalties.

Several players had done stints in Europe before, of course, but the arrival of five of the 2019 World Cup winners' top stars -- Alex Morgan, Tobin Heath, Rose Lavelle, Christen Press, and Sam Mewis -- to England was a marked difference to previous moves that had drawn criticism and even seen national team careers threatened.

In 2018, Portland Thorns and USWNT star Crystal Dunn cut her time at Chelsea short over fears her national career would suffer, while Morgan (Lyon) and Carli Lloyd (Manchester City) also previously faced criticism after leaving for opportunities abroad.

Former United States manager Jill Ellis was a strong advocate of players remaining in the USA and the USWNT's existing pay structure makes playing outside of the U.S. quite complicated for players, especially if they don't have the support of U.S. Soccer. The federation pays the players' international salaries and game bonuses, as well as the club salaries for USWNT players who play in the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL). While teams own the league, U.S. Soccer are employed through a contract to manage aspects of the league. This includes paying national team salaries for some players as well as salaries for at least 22 other players. In exchange for these salaries, the teams and the league limit the amount of players who can go overseas, though this contract is revisited periodically and the next review is due at the end of 2021. It all means that the USSF has an extra interest in its big stars staying home and playing in the States

However, these controls have been loosening in the last year due to a number of internal and external factors. The league has been looking to lessen the control U.S. Soccer has on its players while Ellis' successor as USWNT coach, Vlatko Andonovski, has said he sees the benefits of players getting experience abroad.[/quote]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4270842/uswnt-stars-morganheathlavelle-went-to-europe-due-to-the-pandemicbut-dont-expect-a-larger-movement

[Anonymous]

European women’s pay vs USA

Let’s start with the U.S. team. All 23 U.S. players in France ply their trade in the NWSL. Their playing salaries are essentially the same. U.S. Soccer subsidizes the NWSL by paying the national team players’ NWSL salaries, in addition to providing payments for their USWNT accomplishments per the collective bargaining agreement.

The base salary for USWNT players is $173,000 per year. According to the most recent records that U.S. Soccer has filed with the IRS, in fiscal year 2018 (from October 1, 2017 to Sept. 30, 2018) these were the amounts the federation paid to a few key U.S. players:

Christen Press - $257,920

Becky Sauerbrunn - $256,720

Kelley O’Hara - $256,695

Sam Mewis - $247,497

But where income can really spike is in the area of endorsements. Sources say Alex Morgan makes an annual income in the low seven figures thanks largely to endorsements with Nike, Coca-Cola and Secret. Megan Rapinoe, Tobin Heath, Julie Ertz, Carli Lloyd, Press and Mallory Pugh also have significant endorsement incomes.

“I’d say the top stars have the potential to make seven figures if you really grind it out,” one agent said. “You can’t discount that it’s supertaxing, traveling everywhere, trying to get production days, trying to do all this stuff. And on top of that, you have to do U.S. Soccer stuff and all these editorial things that aren’t paid. It takes a toll.”

How do incomes for players at the top European clubs compare? Let’s take Lyon, which has won the last four UEFA Women's Champions League titles. French stars Amandine Henry and Wendie Renard have base salaries of €348,000 ($391,000) a year and also earn bonuses. I’m also told that Ballon d’Or winner Ada Hegerberg earned around €500,000 ($562,000) from Lyon in the past year, including bonuses.

But endorsement deals in Europe aren’t nearly as lucrative as they are in the U.S., so while Hegerberg has the highest playing income in the world, her overall income including endorsements (currently around $700,000 a year) isn’t as high as Morgan’s.

Elsewhere in Europe, I’m told the highest annual salary in England is currently around £125,000 ($157,000), with some of the highest earners including Chelsea’s Fran Kirby and Arsenal’s Jordan Nobbs (English teams have a salary cap). Arsenal is viewed these days as the team with the biggest spending budget for its women’s team.

“In Sweden they pay next to nothing,” one agent said. “Norway is a little higher. In Germany, Bayern Munich’s highest-paid girl makes €7,000 a month ($94,000 a year).”

What about the non-American stars who are playing in the NWSL, like Australian standout Sam Kerr (Chicago Red Stars) and Brazilian legend Marta (Orlando Pride)? Well, the maximum NWSL annual salary for non-Americans is $46,200.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/07/06/global-market-womens-soccer-players-uswnt-europe-nwsl

It seems some places in Europe will be attractive to US stars and good US players who do not have lucrative endorsement deals. NWSL will have problems matching those salaries specially without help from US Soccer. They will change the way the women are paid with the next CBA. It will be like the men. They will only get a check if you are on the game day roster and no salary. I just do not see NWSL makes if they have to pay market rates for players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

I’m glad you agree it is sexist to treat the women differently. Their pay needs to increase so it is not “different” than what the men get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

I’m glad you agree it is sexist to treat the women differently. Their pay needs to increase so it is not “different” than what the men get.

Sure pay them the same or give both male and female players a choice.

Option one: Player get $5,000 for a loss, a game bonus for a win and a % of the purse for tournament wins. You can throw in performance bonuses like gold boot, etc. This is only if you are on the game day roster.

Option two: Players get a salary plus healthcare, a smaller game bonus for a win and a % of the purse for tournament wins. You can throw in performance bonuses.

Which would you choose? One is risky the other is not.

[Anonymous]

“Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?” I don’t think it is misogyny. I think people want to see men fail just as much when they kneel during the anthem and talk about how terrible they the US is as a country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

Nope, criticism's fair game. But if you've followed any of the USWNT threads on this board, there are posters who very much want to see them fail. That's not the same thing.

if you really followed these threads, you'd realize it has nothing to do with "women", but instead everything to do with "American." There are a handful of frequent posters that hate and criticize American soccer and everything about it. Both men and women, boys and girls. They criticize the coaching, the USSF, the players, everything. The criticism is free of gender or racial bias. The critics believe that everything about European soccer is superior, soup to nuts.

They ignore the majority of the results and facts and always point to the theoretical future hoping that one day they are right. Well, for a single game (so far) and maybe even a single tournament (this year's Olympics) they get to crow. It remains to be seen if "its over" for the USWNT over the long haul. I believe it is not, but this year's team did not look good at all against Sweden. The scary thing is that despite their abysmal play, they hit the post and had several other good scoring chances. The stats were also not that lopsided. So, the US just played their worst game. Let's see how they bounce back. I think they will struggle in this tournament for various reasons, but that the overall program is in good shape and that they'll be back on top again in the next 2-4 years. I also do think that certain Euro countries play a nicer brand of soccer and that the U.S. can learn something from that, but that the negative overaction is a bit silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?” I don’t think it is misogyny. I think people want to see men fail just as much when they kneel during the anthem and talk about how terrible they the US is as a country.

We know your issue and no one cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

Nope, criticism's fair game. But if you've followed any of the USWNT threads on this board, there are posters who very much want to see them fail. That's not the same thing.

if you really followed these threads, you'd realize it has nothing to do with "women", but instead everything to do with "American." There are a handful of frequent posters that hate and criticize American soccer and everything about it. Both men and women, boys and girls. They criticize the coaching, the USSF, the players, everything. The criticism is free of gender or racial bias. The critics believe that everything about European soccer is superior, soup to nuts.

They ignore the majority of the results and facts and always point to the theoretical future hoping that one day they are right. Well, for a single game (so far) and maybe even a single tournament (this year's Olympics) they get to crow. It remains to be seen if "its over" for the USWNT over the long haul. I believe it is not, but this year's team did not look good at all against Sweden. The scary thing is that despite their abysmal play, they hit the post and had several other good scoring chances. The stats were also not that lopsided. So, the US just played their worst game. Let's see how they bounce back. I think they will struggle in this tournament for various reasons, but that the overall program is in good shape and that they'll be back on top again in the next 2-4 years. I also do think that certain Euro countries play a nicer brand of soccer and that the U.S. can learn something from that, but that the negative overaction is a bit silly.

I disagree. The vast majority of posters here experience with soccer is watching their kids play rec and travel. They may watch the USWNT play and chant USA, USA but would have a hard time naming over 6 players on the team. On the mens’s side South and Central America and Europe are playing a different game vs what is soccer here. The money and competition for that money places a lot of pressure on players, coaches and clubs. They have to constantly evolve or they fall behind(Barca).

If you do not know what is happening outside the US you really are missing a lot. Over the past 4-5 years the women’s game has changed. They best players and best teams are in Europe. There are 6-8 women’s club teams in Europe that would easily beat the USWNT. They are playing a different game. Lavelle, Mewis, Dahlkemper, Press and Heath played over there this year. They have been the best players on the field for the USWNT leading up to the Olympics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m glad you agree it is sexist to treat the women differently. Their pay needs to increase so it is not “different” than what the men get.

Clearly you do not understand the U.S. Soccer Federation's pay structure for the U.S. National Teams, as well as the sanctioning body's payment for games/tournaments.

...maybe you should do some research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the team play terribly yesterday?
Yes.

Is it an aging team that needs new blood?
Yes.

Is it hard not to see some misogyny in just how strongly some PPs want to see them fail?
Also yes.

No it goes with being a pro athlete. The team has never been critique. It is actually sexist and misogynistic to say and think they should be treated differently vs a men's team. Men teams and players are called out all the time on TV and the media. You have projected your ideals on to this team and players. They are just jocks and you are starry eyed fan.

They old, really old for soccer. There maybe four players on the current team that will be on the next world cup team.

Nope, criticism's fair game. But if you've followed any of the USWNT threads on this board, there are posters who very much want to see them fail. That's not the same thing.

if you really followed these threads, you'd realize it has nothing to do with "women", but instead everything to do with "American." There are a handful of frequent posters that hate and criticize American soccer and everything about it. Both men and women, boys and girls. They criticize the coaching, the USSF, the players, everything. The criticism is free of gender or racial bias. The critics believe that everything about European soccer is superior, soup to nuts.

They ignore the majority of the results and facts and always point to the theoretical future hoping that one day they are right. Well, for a single game (so far) and maybe even a single tournament (this year's Olympics) they get to crow. It remains to be seen if "its over" for the USWNT over the long haul. I believe it is not, but this year's team did not look good at all against Sweden. The scary thing is that despite their abysmal play, they hit the post and had several other good scoring chances. The stats were also not that lopsided. So, the US just played their worst game. Let's see how they bounce back. I think they will struggle in this tournament for various reasons, but that the overall program is in good shape and that they'll be back on top again in the next 2-4 years. I also do think that certain Euro countries play a nicer brand of soccer and that the U.S. can learn something from that, but that the negative overaction is a bit silly.

LOL, we’re in agreement. They sucked against Sweden, but I’m entertained by the “If you put them up against this imaginary ManOLPSG mashup, they’ll get killed! Okay, but based on their record against the teams they actually play IRL, they kinda win a lot, as much as it seems to pain you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have really enjoyed watching Rapinoe's career, giver her big credit for last WC, and she and Christen Press in particular are models for how I would like my kids to play. But Rapinoe looks so tired out there sometimes, and slow. In a way, similar to how Abby Wambach was easing through games at the end of her career -- almost like playing a pickup game.

Rapinoe looked the same in the last World Cup as she does today. She struggles in the NWSL. In her prime she was a roll player but she did the dirty work so the star players could shine. She was okay in that roll but it seems she has lost her passion for the game before last World Cup. Rose Lavelle and Dunn were the stars of the last World Cup. They both sacrificed their game for the team. This is the opposite of what Rapinoe does. A lot of times she is out of position, seems uninterested without the ball, will turn the ball over with no pressure(she is not alone in that) and walks when she should be helping on defense. Now Rapinoe non soccer stuff is great. This is the only reason she is on the USWNT at this point. If your kid plays like Rapinoe he or she will be cut/demoted.

Press is a much better player - high motor, good technical skills, good without the ball, can work in tight spaces, great without the ball, willing to track back on defense, etc

Carmelo Anthony, among other NBA stars, isn't exactly known for defensive prowess.

There's an old term I've seen used to describe English players of Gary Lineker's generation - the fox in the box. Of course such a term might be looked at weirdly when discussing women's soccer. But basically someone that is useless except inside the 18 - and Rapinoe has scored 34 goals in 75 matches for OL Reign and 59 in 180 matches for the USA. She scored 3 goals from open play in 5 matches in 2019 and converted all three penalties (now I don't care to review how soft those penalties were/are).

In April, the USA drew level with Sweden 1-1. So this seems like it's on the best possible result for Sweden. I mean, if you give an infinite number of footballers an infinite number of matches, eventually the USWNT will get their asses handed to them and eventually football will be coming home as England carry off the title of a Euro or World Cup. Either that, or team up with the monkey representative that just finished a Hamlet sequel.