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Downtown Bethesda: Where did it all go wrong?
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Anonymous
Of course cars, and by extension, public space, are the issue. It's not the size of the building, but designs that do not prioritize public space for pedestrians and bikers. The UWS of Manhattan -- heck, most of Manhattan -- is all tall buildings, but a great place to stroll. Even better now with all the streeteries. |
Anonymous
+1 Virtually everything in the Maryland suburbs is car-scale, not human-scale. Streets with lots of lanes, huge buildings, intersections that are difficult to cross without sprinting. My DH is moderately disabled (walks very slowly, with a cane) and I have given up doing anything with him that involves walking from Point A to Point B. It's park at the door, or nothing. Add to that, neither Bethesda nor the other "urban centers" grew up organically over time. They were created by developers and for the most part include only large-chain stores and the overall feel is Potemkin Village at best. When I travel elsewhere, especially New England, I feel such despair for our environment in the DMV. It's terrible. |
Anonymous
Many suburbs in other parts of the country *are* towns and cities that grew organically over a long period of time. It's not either/or. In many places, it's one and the same. |
Anonymous
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Honestly Bethesda is paragon of urban planning compared to VA, and the biggest building in Bethesda is being built to host Marriott (so complaints about poor economic development there ring hollow). Likewise, it seems odd to complain about how Bethesda is full of wealthy people but then also complain about new housing being built convenient to transit.
That said, I would prefer if more buildings were 60-70 feet vs 150 feet tall, but people thought 60-70 feet tall buildings were monstrously large when they were first built in NYC. |
Anonymous
Yes of course public spaces matter including local roads and paths for movement on foot or bike, etc. But the size of buildings matter too..there is also evidence that high buildings "destroy the townscape, can make life difficult for children,...wreck the open spaces near them, and can damage light, air and view." All of which affects the feel of strolling on the street. Source: A Pattern Language. This is a a classic book on towns, building and construction and how this affects the lives of the people who live there. Even in dense areas, they recommend building no higher than four stories in buildings for human habitation and they cite a lot of interesting reasons why. Would highly recommend. |
Anonymous
The idea that it’s cars and not building size is ridiculous. And citing NYC does not help. Midtown Manhattan is equally a terrible place as downtown Bethesda. Worse because it goes on for much longer. However much of NYC is actually less than 5 stories and most of lower Manhattan where everyone loves to walk is: Meatpacking District, Tribeca, Chelsea, Soho, and Greenwich Village all are low building height and relatively lower density. |
Anonymous
And yet there are tons of people out walking during the day. Fewer on Wisconsin at night but plenty around Bethesda Avenue, Woodmont Triangle, and in the neighborhoods. As someone who's lived here 12 years, and didn't own a car for the first 4 of those, I can tell you it's not hard to walk. It's certainly far easier to walk than, say, Main Line Philadelphia where I am from. Quite easy to do errands on foot. From my house, within a 1 mile radius, I can hit 3 groceries, my kids' schools, the library, 2 different trails, 3 playgrounds, our synagogue, 2 metro stops, bus stops, plenty of restaurants, the pet store, our dentist, several doctors, the place I get my hair cut, etc. Can also easily walk to other neighborhoods to stroll in, and lots of people do. |
Anonymous
This persons ideal urban environment is apparently La Defense in Paris. That’s pretty LOL. 
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Anonymous
OK. But for those of us who live in Bethesda or Chevy Chase, it's pretty nice, in my humble opinion. |
Anonymous
Too complicated to park? There are like 3 County run garages where the parking is a dollar an hour. And it’s a 5 minutes drive from the beltway. This thread is pointing out that everyone has a different complaint—some people want it to be more Astro-turfed (like tysons), others want it to be more cutesy, others want it more grungy (what aren’t there 3 tattoo places?), some want it less grungy, some want more parking, some want less cars (not there are already two major bike trials that feed right into downtown)…..this is like a crazy HOA meeting where everyone thinks what they want is perfect and what other people want is terrible. My personal view is that it’s probably kind of big/sprawling and that it’s got a few different vibes going on, which don’t really seem well integrated, but at the end of the day, there is something for everyone. I do think they should close off some roads to driving—like Elm beyond the parking garage, which is always a disaster, in part because the pedestrians refuse to cross at the crossing signals. And that intersection need uncle julios needs some sort of study, but part of the solution is ending the insanely rude practice of just stopping your car right in front of uncle Julio’s to load/unload/pick up food—it backs up that whole intersection when people do this. |
Anonymous
This. So much this. County Council is dependent on developers to fund their campaigns, Council signs off on their awful plans (infill, nothing that fits within a current neighborhood, not enough parking spaces even though public transit like Bus Rapid Transit and Purple Line are still on paper, not keeping schools up with development so they are overcrowded, building pocket parks - barely better than nothing, but not enough open/green/play space for children, and taking down every bit of greenery to build more apartments, and mini-destinations like Pike and Rose, Bethesda Row and Park Potomac, which while perhaps nice for those who live there, are not places I want to go with my family of 5 including 3 young children). If only the Planning Board and Council weren't so intent on turning all of our leafy green suburbs into cement-city urban areas. |
Anonymous
Yes, and what really rubs is that most of them choose to live in leafy green Takoma Park, which fights development. Where is there a version of Bethesda from the ‘90s? That’s where I’d like to live…does such a place exist in the DMV? |
Anonymous
| Haven't read all 9 pages - but high rents means those retail/restaurant spots can only ever attract chains and then those chains open/close depending on whatever Chipotle or whoever's corporate plans are re expansion or consolidation. It's not businesses that stick around bc of customer loyalty. But with high rents you can't attract independent shops as easily bc they don't bring in enough $$$ to pay usually- or if they do they need to maximize their own incomes. So the place loses character. |
Anonymous
| Haven’t read the entire thread but there was a big article about 10 years back at why there is a lack of good places to eat as it has hampered Bethesda’s reputation (it’s STILL an issue). There were a couple famous area restauranteurs/chefs who said the rents were high AND the county’s food and liquor license/regulations are so onerous that it’s not worth the headache. That’s why Bethesda depends on chains or average places - no top chef will want to open a shop there. Sad. |