Thread for Derek Chauvin trial watchers?

[Anonymous]

I also think that the reason the store clerk initially accepted the fake bill from Floyd and not from the other guy was because he was intimidated by Floyd and didn't want a fight with a guy that was double his strength and obviously high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO it seems like the defense is using multiple strategies. His history, drug use, underlying conditions but most importantly the paramedics moving to a new location was bc they felt it wasn't safe. That gives support to the idea that the police were too distracted by the surroundings. Also that by moving GF they delayed necessary medical support that could have saved him. Add in that the Firefighter EMS weren't updated on the new location.
They are making it seem like it was a variety of factors. He directly asked whether the paramedic was able to insert the gel thing in the airway and whether there was any compression or resistance or injuries to the neck.
I mean I really don't understand why you would get arrested without evidence of forgery. I also don't understand why he wasn't given an opportunity to take a breath and calmly discuss getting into the car. Do they not have transport vans that could have been called? Why not just give him a minute- he's handcuffed.

I think Floyd repeatedly refusing to get out of the car to discuss the fake bill with the store clerk suggests that he knew it was fake.

It doesn't matter and law isn't based on a Shakespearean play sentiment. Also store clerks are not supposed to talk to people they suspect of providing counterfeit. You'd also have to prove he knew it was counterfeit. As a server I've been given counterfeit money and it happens and it sucks. It's reported but doesn't result in someone, who isnt investigated, to be arrested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chauvin will be convicted. There is a video of the entire crime.End of story.

except Floyd had two illegals drugs in his system, had Covid, had a heart condition. I want him convicted too and think he killed him. But this is why it’s not cut and dry.

I think even if he didn't have any drugs the knee on the neck would have killed him.

Let's put this another way: is there any living human being who could have survived having a knee on his neck for 9 1/2 minutes? This would have killed a triathlete, for God's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chauvin will be convicted. There is a video of the entire crime.End of story.

except Floyd had two illegals drugs in his system, had Covid, had a heart condition. I want him convicted too and think he killed him. But this is why it’s not cut and dry.

I think even if he didn't have any drugs the knee on the neck would have killed him.

Let's put this another way: is there any living human being who could have survived having a knee on his neck for 9 1/2 minutes? This would have killed a triathlete, for God's sake.

I wish someone who thinks it wasn't the knee on the neck that killed him would volunteer to have a grown man kneel on their neck for 9 1/2 minutes so we could know for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO it seems like the defense is using multiple strategies. His history, drug use, underlying conditions but most importantly the paramedics moving to a new location was bc they felt it wasn't safe. That gives support to the idea that the police were too distracted by the surroundings. Also that by moving GF they delayed necessary medical support that could have saved him. Add in that the Firefighter EMS weren't updated on the new location.
They are making it seem like it was a variety of factors. He directly asked whether the paramedic was able to insert the gel thing in the airway and whether there was any compression or resistance or injuries to the neck.
I mean I really don't understand why you would get arrested without evidence of forgery. I also don't understand why he wasn't given an opportunity to take a breath and calmly discuss getting into the car. Do they not have transport vans that could have been called? Why not just give him a minute- he's handcuffed.

The overall defense strategy seems kind of like “this case is more complicated than what you’ve heard” and to some extent “it’s less reasonable to second guess someone who is in a uniquely stressful/complex position.” All or almost all of the jurors knew about George Floyd prior to the case. Jurors aren’t excluded based on knowledge of the case, but are asked if they can put what opinions they’ve already formed aside and follow the law and the evidence as presented at trial. Compared to the vast majority of trials, though, jurors obviously had more exposure to the case and during jury selection, Nelson would say for example “would you believe that there’s more to the story than what you’ve been told” etc.

Nelson is trying to create reasonable doubt. Chauvin doesn’t really have a bombshell defense here, at least not one I can see. Although a lot of people on the internet seemingly thought Nelson could just go with “the drugs killed him” that’s not really how it works, because of the autopsy and medical examiner testimony, it would discredit the defense to rely on that like a single defense. The drugs are not a defense per se, but might create some reasonable doubt. Highlighting complexities is a defense strategy to create reasonable doubt.

As far as the arrest, I think the full body cam footage shows that Lane most likely had probable cause to make an arrest on suspicion of drug possession after he approached the car. I don’t know MN drug possession laws, and I don’t know how Minneapolis police typically handle basic possession cases, but it is possibly relevant that Floyd was in the driver’s seat. I think there are some valid questions about whether an experienced officer would have handled it that way and definitely valid whether it was the right way to handle it vs just watching him and calling EMS. The forgery evidence could have been handled later. Having two officers together on their first or second day is probably not a best practice and likely one factor in how this spiraled out of control. I agree, once he’s cuffed, letting him stay on the sidewalk to wait for EMS/backup could have been an option. When the car thing escalated, and back up arrived, rolling him into a recovery position and attempting first aid could and should have been a reasonable option. The initial arrest might not be a huge focus of this trial, since it happened before Chauvin was there.

[Anonymous]

George Floyd was killed by Derek Chauvin kneeling on his neck for over 9 minutes. The bystanders knew it. The paramedics knew it. The fire captain knew it. The cops knew it.

And the cops' complete disregard for George's life is demonstrated by the fact that they were still restraining him even though he was clearly unconscious and not breathing. Derek Chauvin stayed on top of George EVEN AFTER THE PARAMEDIC FOUND NO PULSE. He had his knee on the neck of a dead man and they had to tell him to get off of George so they put him in the ambulance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mpls jury found it easy to convict the Somali-American rookie who killed the white lady who rapped on the squad car when they were investigating a reported rape in progress.

That was completely different. She was unarmed, obviously a lot less powerful than even the unarmed male officers, had committed no crime (in her life!), and was outside the vehicle. The officers were called out for a rape, so they knew to expect to see a woman in distress. What they saw was a woman in distress, and yet that officer shot her without hesitation. Over his partner from within the vehicle.

The Floyd case is very different. Floyd had high doses of hard narcotics in his system which can be fatal by itself, he had a deadly respiratory virus that has been killing hundreds of thousands of Americans, and he was a known criminal who was obviously strong enough to easily physically overpower Chauvin.

I don't think Chauvin seems like a particularly nice person, but I don't think he intended to kill Floyd that day. And if it wasn't for all the drugs and covid, which Chauvin couldn't have known about, then I'm not convinced that Floyd would have died.

Chauvin was a bit rough, but cops dealing with these types of criminals need to be. Polite language doesn't work, and they're trained not to use their weapons if they don't need to. He was probably showing off a bit for the crowd, but he also knew there were a lot of witnesses and that it was being recorded. He might be guilty of something but I don't believe he should go away for the death itself.

I strongly disagree. The police officer had a history of being rough with suspects. He used a choke technique that was completely uncalled for, and especially for that length of time. Objectively, he knew doing it for that long would potentially kill someone, and it did. Whether or not he was in a daze of a power trip or reflexively acted against the wishes of everyone around him, does not matter - as others have stated, he should have been master of the situation, controlled his punitive and contrarian urges, and he wasn't and didn't. He is absolutely guilty of second degree murder, the worst charge brought against him.

If the defendant has done this before and didn’t kill anyone then it increases the chances that people will see this as an accident. Especially since Floyd was obviously the biggest/strongest person he’s ever needed to arrest.

That's bullshit. Chauvin worked off-duty in clubs, so he has dealt with drunken brawny men before. Floyd was 6'3, he's not that big. Chauvis 5'9. So if he could not do his job without killing someone because he is such a shorty- twerp ass, he should have found another line of work.

[Anonymous]

Chauvin has done this before, to a 14-year-old boy.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/11/18/prosecutors-14yearold-boy-cried-mom-as-chauvin-knelt-on-his-back-for-17-minutes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does everyone think of the EMT's? The 2nd one seemed really annoyed to be there, but it could have been just nerves. It was interesting when he said that any layman could do chest compressions. So, then why didn't the officer do this when in the back of the ambulance?

They showed the bodycam that one of the officers were helping the paramedic with compressions. I think that is Officer Lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chauvin will be convicted. There is a video of the entire crime.End of story.

except Floyd had two illegals drugs in his system, had Covid, had a heart condition. I want him convicted too and think he killed him. But this is why it’s not cut and dry.

I think even if he didn't have any drugs the knee on the neck would have killed him.

Also, legally, the medical situation of the injured/killed person is not a valid defense to the seriousness of any injury caused to them. If you shoot a person, it doesn't matter that they had terminal cancer or were about to die of an overdose anyway; also maybe they could have been saved, but for you killing them.

this is a civil standard

[Anonymous]

The thing about Officer Lane is he spoke up against Chavin, who was his training officer. That is highly unusual for an rookie to question his FTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO it seems like the defense is using multiple strategies. His history, drug use, underlying conditions but most importantly the paramedics moving to a new location was bc they felt it wasn't safe. That gives support to the idea that the police were too distracted by the surroundings. Also that by moving GF they delayed necessary medical support that could have saved him. Add in that the Firefighter EMS weren't updated on the new location.
They are making it seem like it was a variety of factors. He directly asked whether the paramedic was able to insert the gel thing in the airway and whether there was any compression or resistance or injuries to the neck.
I mean I really don't understand why you would get arrested without evidence of forgery. I also don't understand why he wasn't given an opportunity to take a breath and calmly discuss getting into the car. Do they not have transport vans that could have been called? Why not just give him a minute- he's handcuffed.

I think Floyd repeatedly refusing to get out of the car to discuss the fake bill with the store clerk suggests that he knew it was fake.

Nope. He kept saying what did I do? What did I do? They never did tell him what he was accused of doing. There was no fake bill to discuss because he was not told about a fake bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would think that they could have an expert on police matters testify that they reviewed the body worn camera footage and describe that the review revealed the officer said there was no pulse.

The prosecution will undoubtedly do something like that, and already has to some extent (they played that snippet yesterday, when they had an expert on camera systems testify). The expert was testifying to establish how camera systems work, and how the footage is stored securely so it can’t be altered, etc. As well as the basics on the body cams.

Prosecution will almost certainly be calling the police chief to show footage and establish what is happening throughout the footage and what officers should be doing based on training.

I just don’t know how the defense would confront it at this point. Certainly they’re way ahead of me on reviewing the evidence of this case and will attempt the legal defense available, but I think it’s pretty devastating to their case.

Chavin's sergeant just testified that after Floyd was handcuffed, on the ground and no longer resisting the knee on the back was excessive force.

[Anonymous]

The defense is taking blow after blow today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing about Officer Lane is he spoke up against Chavin, who was his training officer. That is highly unusual for an rookie to question his FTO.

Chauvin was Keung’s field training officer, not sure about Lane. Lane would have known MPD used Chauvin as a field training officer, and the defense for Lane and Keung will likely argue this created the perception that Chauvin knew how to handle a situation or had some authority.