"A Cheap, Race-Neutral Way to Close the Racial Wealth Gap..

[Anonymous]

Because it's not true

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010015/figures/figure_29.asp

Yes, actually this shows that it's Hispanics who are disadvantaged and making less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

Lol you do realize that for many of the people that immigrate here these descriptors do not apply or disappear after a few years. I know this definition of immigrant you provided is all too convenient for your argument, but immigrants come from a broad range of socioeconomic classes and individual circumstances.

So do black people.
Few years is a LONG time to have your life on hold.

A few years of inconvenience is not a long time to come out on the other end as a model minority compared to a lifetime of a systemic discrimination imposed on black people. Anecdotal instances of black people that beat the odds don't change the odds of beating a system meant to oppress them.

Once more with feeling: a one-time cash gift isn’t going to fix that lifetime of systemic oppression, crappy education, and so on. Why not spend more on fixing the crappy education system, so future black generations can benefit as well?

[Anonymous]

At some point that community is going to stop looking for different forms of government handouts (of which the current push for reparations is just the latest iteration) and rely upon the same tools of hard work and self-reliance that every other group in American society does to improve their economic fortunes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

I have heard this several times, and I don’t believe it either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

I have heard this several times, and I don’t believe it either.

You are conflating income with wealth. Here are a few sources:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/10/white-high-school-dropouts-are-wealthier-than-black-and-hispanic-college-graduates-can-a-new-policy-tool-fix-that/
https://www.ybnllc.com/single-post/2019/04/16/White-High-School-Dropouts-Are-Still-Wealthier-Than-Black-College-Graduates

This is largely because of homeownership. If you thought housing discrimintation was a thing of the past, you were wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At some point that community is going to stop looking for different forms of government handouts (of which the current push for reparations is just the latest iteration) and rely upon the same tools of hard work and self-reliance that every other group in American society does to improve their economic fortunes.

+100

[Anonymous]

All this does is encourage people who can’t afford it to have lots of babies. I’m a moderate who hasn’t voted Republican in probably 20 years. Policy proposals like this are going to force people like me to move right.

[Anonymous]

If they would let more kids go to college for free it would lift many kids out of poverty instesd of into debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they would let more kids go to college for free it would lift many kids out of poverty instesd of into debt.

Exactly. $50K doesn't pay for 2 years of a public university or even for 1 year of most private universities. Federally-subsidized student loans cap out at about $8K/year, I believe, then you have to borrow at regular rates. Which low-income kids won't be able to do.

Black kids are going to look at this and go, thanks for nothing.

If the federal government made much more grant aid available, that would help a lot more low-income kids in a very real way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this does is encourage people who can’t afford it to have lots of babies. I’m a moderate who hasn’t voted Republican in probably 20 years. Policy proposals like this are going to force people like me to move right.

Wow. Only if you are planning, before getting pregnant, to steal money from your adult children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this does is encourage people who can’t afford it to have lots of babies. I’m a moderate who hasn’t voted Republican in probably 20 years. Policy proposals like this are going to force people like me to move right.

Wow. Only if you are planning, before getting pregnant, to steal money from your adult children.

Which I am sure a lot of people will do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this does is encourage people who can’t afford it to have lots of babies. I’m a moderate who hasn’t voted Republican in probably 20 years. Policy proposals like this are going to force people like me to move right.

Me too. Policies like this and the politics of Sanders, AOC, etc. really just drive me toward the right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they would let more kids go to college for free it would lift many kids out of poverty instesd of into debt.

Exactly. $50K doesn't pay for 2 years of a public university or even for 1 year of most private universities. Federally-subsidized student loans cap out at about $8K/year, I believe, then you have to borrow at regular rates. Which low-income kids won't be able to do.

Black kids are going to look at this and go, thanks for nothing.

If the federal government made much more grant aid available, that would help a lot more low-income kids in a very real way.

The low income grants are the Pell grants to be used at accredited institutions and yes, expanding them would do a lot more good for a lot less money than just handing out 50k checks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they would let more kids go to college for free it would lift many kids out of poverty instesd of into debt.

Exactly. $50K doesn't pay for 2 years of a public university or even for 1 year of most private universities. Federally-subsidized student loans cap out at about $8K/year, I believe, then you have to borrow at regular rates. Which low-income kids won't be able to do.

Black kids are going to look at this and go, thanks for nothing.

If the federal government made much more grant aid available, that would help a lot more low-income kids in a very real way.

Why can't more people go to community college for 2 years and then commute to a state school for 2 more years? That is very affordable. Okay, we have to account for the fact that some students live in rural areas and have to access to local state schools. That is an exception. I also know that community colleges have low graduation rates, but if we encourage a high-support cohort model that could change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they would let more kids go to college for free it would lift many kids out of poverty instesd of into debt.

Exactly. $50K doesn't pay for 2 years of a public university or even for 1 year of most private universities. Federally-subsidized student loans cap out at about $8K/year, I believe, then you have to borrow at regular rates. Which low-income kids won't be able to do.

Black kids are going to look at this and go, thanks for nothing.

If the federal government made much more grant aid available, that would help a lot more low-income kids in a very real way.

Why can't more people go to community college for 2 years and then commute to a state school for 2 more years? That is very affordable. Okay, we have to account for the fact that some students live in rural areas and have to access to local state schools. That is an exception. I also know that community colleges have low graduation rates, but if we encourage a high-support cohort model that could change.

Why are poor kids less deserving of the traditional college experience than UMC kids?