"A Cheap, Race-Neutral Way to Close the Racial Wealth Gap..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we incentivize people not to work hard and rather just to be lazy and crap out more kids they can't afford. Great.

+1000. If the culture in these families is not to work and save, then the moment they can get their hands on the money most will blow it on short-term gratification.

African Americans have been “working hard” while being hated and abused for over 400 years! If anyone in the States deserves additional support it’s AAs.

All these people spewing hate and ignorance wouldn’t last a month living as an AA, before wanting to end it all!

ITA on the additional support. I’ve said above I’d be willing to pay $800b for lasting policies, ten times the $80b you’re talking about for reparations.

I just don’t agree that cash handouts are the way to do it. Cash handouts aren’t going to address all the systemic problems like poor education opportunities, prison reform, discrimination, bad health care, and the rest. Cash handouts aren’t going to help everybody move to good school districts—they’re going to raise house prices in the better school districts out of reach, and they won’t support a 30-year mortgage there anyway. At the end of the day, the next generation will still be stuck with bad school districts and bad healthcare.

Several people have raised these points, in various ways. You need to stop talking about “400 years” and start addressing all the concerns about implementation and lasting systemic change.

My point is that AAs have only gained “basic rights” since the late 60s. So you think magically all the problems and trauma that AAs have experienced would be solved in 50 years? Look at Native Americans....

And no, you need to understand that those 400 years are still riding on the backs of every AA in the States. So NEVER tell someone that that was 400 years ago, because that is not your history and your burden.

Neither is it yours. Because you weren't here 400 years ago either.

What do you say about the AA families and individuals who have more money than many white people? Because they do exist?

What the reparations argument does is it treats all AAs as one entity with identical life experiences. Which is not true. Should, to use an extreme example, the Obama girls get reparations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we incentivize people not to work hard and rather just to be lazy and crap out more kids they can't afford. Great.

+1000. If the culture in these families is not to work and save, then the moment they can get their hands on the money most will blow it on short-term gratification.

African Americans have been “working hard” while being hated and abused for over 400 years! If anyone in the States deserves additional support it’s AAs.

All these people spewing hate and ignorance wouldn’t last a month living as an AA, before wanting to end it all!

ITA on the additional support. I’ve said above I’d be willing to pay $800b for lasting policies, ten times the $80b you’re talking about for reparations.

I just don’t agree that cash handouts are the way to do it. Cash handouts aren’t going to address all the systemic problems like poor education opportunities, prison reform, discrimination, bad health care, and the rest. Cash handouts aren’t going to help everybody move to good school districts—they’re going to raise house prices in the better school districts out of reach, and they won’t support a 30-year mortgage there anyway. At the end of the day, the next generation will still be stuck with bad school districts and bad healthcare.

Several people have raised these points, in various ways. You need to stop talking about “400 years” and start addressing all the concerns about implementation and lasting systemic change.

My point is that AAs have only gained “basic rights” since the late 60s. So you think magically all the problems and trauma that AAs have experienced would be solved in 50 years? Look at Native Americans....

And no, you need to understand that those 400 years are still riding on the backs of every AA in the States. So NEVER tell someone that that was 400 years ago, because that is not your history and your burden.

No, most of us aren't in denial about 400 years of abuse and trauma. Of course some are trying to understand these centuries-old burdens and trauma, by doing a lot of reading, listening to podcasts, and more.

We want to fix this.

We just don't agree with you that cash handouts are going to "magically" turn around anything. THAT's what several of us are trying to say, and which you keep trying to ignore.

The problems are systemic. Cash grants won't "magically" remove all the underlying drivers that continue the racial wealth gap. These include differential incomes, differential savings rates at lower incomes (called the income elasticity of savings in econ jargon), differential rates of return on things like real estate, lack of financial education, differential inheritances, poor educational opportunities from kindergarten through college, poor health care, and more.

Cash grants are a band-aid that won't support a 30-year mortgage or pay for even half of a decent 4-year public university. Cash grants will make one generation happier and leave subsequent generations in the same poverty. If you want to help Blacks build wealth and get better education, put that money into LONG-TERM programs to support Head Start, better public schools, college grants, and to help with mortgage payments over the long-term.

So now make your case: why is cash a better way to build wealth and income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

+ million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a physician and would have blown this entire account on partying in college.

Ok. But how do you think your Medicaid patients would have spent it?

I work in Medicaid case management and love my patients and my job. I spend my days connecting people with resources (which are many in this city including free childcare for everyone under a certain income).

But 95% of them would blow through a 50K one time payment within a few months.
5-10% would probably use it for long term goals and/or education.

I honestly think this would be worth it---we could change the trajectory of 5-10% at the cost of losing 90% of the money.

I think the idea is that you get it when you are born, but don’t have access to it for twenty years. I think less people would blow through it if they had time to think about it.

It’s 18 years and you can only use it for education or to buy property. But that’s even worse, because $50k is a down payment but it’s not enough to keep paying the mortgage for 30 years on an income that reflects an unreformed school system. Or, you can flip a condo and keep the balance. There will be tons of subprime lenders and scammers trying to help you do that.

$50k won’t even get you 2 years at UMD in-state, so does the recipient have to take out student loans for the rest? Meanwhile, blacks with a college degree earn less than whites with a college degree, but we haven’t addressed any of the reasons (besides discrimination) why this is the case, including forward-thinking policies like Head Start for all.

Meanwhile colleges are raising tuition and housing prices are going up. Inflation is real.

If you insist it goes to education then you'll have tons of people using it for shady "passion degrees" from diploma mills or programs that aren't diploma mills per se but are still just cash cows with no barriers to entry or standards. Enrollees often don't finish. The programs will just get richer and the handout does nothing to improve outcomes or correct for years of crappy K-12 education and the fact many low income kids graduate from high school without meeting basic standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

Lol you do realize that for many of the people that immigrate here these descriptors do not apply or disappear after a few years. I know this definition of immigrant you provided is all too convenient for your argument, but immigrants come from a broad range of socioeconomic classes and individual circumstances.

So do black people.
Few years is a LONG time to have your life on hold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Universal basic income. -Andrew Yang

Screw Andrew Yang.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazing how people don't want to give $50K to poor people because they're afraid they'll act irresponsibly, but have no problem giving billion dollar bailouts to corporations who have a proven track record of behaving irresponsibly.

I have a problem with golden parachutes, it's not fare to fail a company and still get $$$$$.
I have a problem with companies that can afford to lose a few billions in a single day and not blink an eye about it.
I also have a problem with giving money to a poor people. It never worked and never will. I am for FORCING them learn a profession suitable for their IQ level and MAKING them work.

[Anonymous]

Creating the racial wealth gap was not race-neutral so why should the solution be? American descendants of slaves are owed cash reparations from the US government.

So -- what would be the proof needed to ensure any reparation only went to American descendants of slaves? Because not all POC/AAs in the US today are descendants of slaves. And what sort of cash reparation(s) are you thinking? One-time stimulus-type reparation?

[Anonymous]

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we incentivize people not to work hard and rather just to be lazy and crap out more kids they can't afford. Great.

+1000. If the culture in these families is not to work and save, then the moment they can get their hands on the money most will blow it on short-term gratification.

African Americans have been “working hard” while being hated and abused for over 400 years! If anyone in the States deserves additional support it’s AAs.

All these people spewing hate and ignorance wouldn’t last a month living as an AA, before wanting to end it all!

ITA on the additional support. I’ve said above I’d be willing to pay $800b for lasting policies, ten times the $80b you’re talking about for reparations.

I just don’t agree that cash handouts are the way to do it. Cash handouts aren’t going to address all the systemic problems like poor education opportunities, prison reform, discrimination, bad health care, and the rest. Cash handouts aren’t going to help everybody move to good school districts—they’re going to raise house prices in the better school districts out of reach, and they won’t support a 30-year mortgage there anyway. At the end of the day, the next generation will still be stuck with bad school districts and bad healthcare.

Several people have raised these points, in various ways. You need to stop talking about “400 years” and start addressing all the concerns about implementation and lasting systemic change.

My point is that AAs have only gained “basic rights” since the late 60s. So you think magically all the problems and trauma that AAs have experienced would be solved in 50 years? Look at Native Americans....

And no, you need to understand that those 400 years are still riding on the backs of every AA in the States. So NEVER tell someone that that was 400 years ago, because that is not your history and your burden.

No, most of us aren't in denial about 400 years of abuse and trauma. Of course some are trying to understand these centuries-old burdens and trauma, by doing a lot of reading, listening to podcasts, and more.

We want to fix this.

We just don't agree with you that cash handouts are going to "magically" turn around anything. THAT's what several of us are trying to say, and which you keep trying to ignore.

The problems are systemic. Cash grants won't "magically" remove all the underlying drivers that continue the racial wealth gap. These include differential incomes, differential savings rates at lower incomes (called the income elasticity of savings in econ jargon), differential rates of return on things like real estate, lack of financial education, differential inheritances, poor educational opportunities from kindergarten through college, poor health care, and more.

Cash grants are a band-aid that won't support a 30-year mortgage or pay for even half of a decent 4-year public university. Cash grants will make one generation happier and leave subsequent generations in the same poverty. If you want to help Blacks build wealth and get better education, put that money into LONG-TERM programs to support Head Start, better public schools, college grants, and to help with mortgage payments over the long-term.

So now make your case: why is cash a better way to build wealth and income?

Nobody wants to discuss the merits of cash today vs. much more cash over the long-term yo address systemic problems?

We’re back to calling each other lazy, spendthrifts, racist, or privileged?

OK. But it’s hard to take any of you seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

+ million.

and yet we still can't get a mortgage or a business loan or they bomb our towns and kill our leaders and steal our land and poison our houses and water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

Lol you do realize that for many of the people that immigrate here these descriptors do not apply or disappear after a few years. I know this definition of immigrant you provided is all too convenient for your argument, but immigrants come from a broad range of socioeconomic classes and individual circumstances.

So do black people.
Few years is a LONG time to have your life on hold.

Only certain people immigrate... usually the educates/well off/entrepreneurs.

Your average person does not immigrate... so by that basic fact, immigrants start off better than both blacks and whites with similar circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

Lol you do realize that for many of the people that immigrate here these descriptors do not apply or disappear after a few years. I know this definition of immigrant you provided is all too convenient for your argument, but immigrants come from a broad range of socioeconomic classes and individual circumstances.

So do black people.
Few years is a LONG time to have your life on hold.

Only certain people immigrate... usually the educates/well off/entrepreneurs.

Your average person does not immigrate... so by that basic fact, immigrants start off better than both blacks and whites with similar circumstances.

Tell that to all the housecleaners, janitors, lawn guys, parking garage guys and waiters/waitresses who don’t have a high school education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fascinating thing about all this is that "white" America is rapidly declining as a share of the population and the country rapidly diversifying. I think the reason why the racial, or rather, black racial issues, have become so intensified and bitter in recent years is that the old argument of blaming all their problems on racism has gotten harder when at the same time tens of millions non-whites have immigrated to the United States and in that time, despite not being white, have outperformed black America, and many have even outperformed white America. This substantially weakens the old racial arguments.

That's why it's shifted away from personal, direct individual racism to institutional racism. 50 years ago the racial argument was based on too many individual racists, teachers, employers, politicians, neighbors, being racist, and that to fight racism you had to combat the racists populating the institutions through educating them, and welcoming blacks into the institutions. But flash forward 50 years of Affirmative Action and a white population that is incredibly more tolerant and race blind, and (which is often ignored these days) a flourishing black middle class and many more blacks in leadership position, so many of the problems facing particularly poorer blacks remain. Blacks continue to commit disproportionate amounts of crime and urban deprived neighborhoods remain disproportionately black.

Now the blame for the problems is shifting, not to any individual responsibility, but to a focus on "institutional racism," calling for racism within the framework of American society and American institutions rather than the individuals, and by making it institutional, the proponents override all the current racial tolerance and diversity and affirmative action programs to reach back to the past as an excuse for today's behavior. That's why if Hispanic gang members shoot each other, it's not racism, but when black gang members shoot each other, it's racism. That's why poor white people in places of generational poverty, such as rural America and Appalachia, are not absolved of their poverty, and even openly mocked and trashed, but poor blacks in inner cities are absolved of any responsibilities for their poverty and it's racist to make fun of their cultural behaviors.

I do see and understand why. A focus on blaming "institutional" racism of the past to present allows people to avoid looking at other things more close to home and provides an easy scrapegoat for angers and frustrations.

But ultimately, I suspect it won't go much beyond severely worsening many things. And, ironically, it is still going to the white man with a begging bowl.

No quotes needed for the institutional in institutional racism. It is in fact very real. The US racial caste system puts Black descendants of slavery and Native Americans at the lowest ranks below non-white immigrants. The failure of people like you to acknowledge it, allows it to continue. There are also systems that keep people impoverished which often overlap with race, but that doesn't change the fact that the biggest predictor of how much lifetime wealth you will accumulate is race. A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

How does it put them below if they have the following that immigrants don't have:

- they speak fluent English (most of the immigrants come here either without speaking any English or with a very poor English)
- they was offered free English grammar education for 12 years (all the immigrants can hope is free ESL classes in a local library at the large urban areas)
- they have family support (sometimes extensive family with grandparents, siblings, aunts and anckles)
- they have legal status to work
- they have Affirmative Action to go to college
- they can join military (for some immigrants this is not an option)
- if they are poor, they are eligible for financial aid in college (immigrants don't )
- they can drive (a lot of immigrants moving from big cities or rural areas never drove)

All the listed above put blacks way above any white or non-white immigrant at the starting point.

Lol you do realize that for many of the people that immigrate here these descriptors do not apply or disappear after a few years. I know this definition of immigrant you provided is all too convenient for your argument, but immigrants come from a broad range of socioeconomic classes and individual circumstances.

So do black people.
Few years is a LONG time to have your life on hold.

A few years of inconvenience is not a long time to come out on the other end as a model minority compared to a lifetime of a systemic discrimination imposed on black people. Anecdotal instances of black people that beat the odds don't change the odds of beating a system meant to oppress them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

Because it's not true

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010015/figures/figure_29.asp