J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

That’s a straw man argument. Sports has nothing to do with trans people getting the mental health resources they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

I'm not going to essentially stop all female sports just because some men who can't win anything decided that they're women and want to check a box on a form and then dominate women's sports, and if they don't get to do that then they're going to attempt suicide. I honestly can't even believe someone is arguing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

That’s a straw man argument. Sports has nothing to do with trans people getting the mental health resources they need.

Trans individuals do not need mental health support for being trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

That’s a straw man argument. Sports has nothing to do with trans people getting the mental health resources they need.

Trans individuals do not need mental health support for being trans.

Anyone who is suicidal should get mental health support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

That’s a straw man argument. Sports has nothing to do with trans people getting the mental health resources they need.

Trans individuals do not need mental health support for being trans.

.

Oh really? The previous poster just said 1 in 4 attempt suicide. It sounds like you don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

And how deliberately must you misread somene’s post in order to think they’re dying on a hill? DP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is a TERF and the rest of you that agree with her are TERFs too.

Ohhhhhh a “terf”!!! Lololol

You can call me all the names you want, but on this Jk Rowling is correct, and people have lots the damn minds.

Completely agree. I am super liberal and think I'm open minded but I just can't with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone else read it? It’s certainly well-thought out. She essentially says she’s spent 3 years studying the concept of trans identity and while she supports it -

a) she doesn’t think the rights of women who sexually identify as female should be diminished,

b) young adults (under 18) should not be allowed gender reassignment surgery and even adults need to have more rigorous standards for completion since its irreversible, and

c) trans being a identity more than a sexuality is subject to groupthink which is why it’s exploded in culture recently.

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

To me, this is the equivalent of All Lives Matter. By promoting awareness of and requesting protection for trans women, no one is saying that cis women are worth any less.

Except when it comes to demanding things that might hurt natural born women such as trans women competing in female sports or going into female bathrooms.

Well, cis girls and women just need to accept that. If cis girls lose to trans girls in women's sports, then they need to be good losers. Not bad losers.

Troll

I'm not a troll, I'm stating the only reasonable position to take wrt women's sports and trans women. Some people also think it's problematic, but what's a better alternative? Barring trans athletes, imposing a transition period hiatus, something else? All problematic.

If you are a trans woman, then you are a biological man who has chosen to become a woman and you have your Y DNA and years of male hormones that have shaped your physique. Therefore you are genetically and physically different from biological women. Trans women could always choose to compete against the gender they were born as, or we can create a separate category for trans women.

That is the whole point. Trans women don’t need a whole separate category! They are women too. A trans woman does not diminish any other woman’s womanhood or the struggles she has faced as a woman. There is no need to be exclusionary of trans women and “other” them by demanding they be in their own category. And that is exactly what JKR does when she pops up with this crap every 6 months- claims she’s some great defender of lesbians and women’s rights or whatever by excluding trans women from the narrative. Trans women are women.

But clearly MtoF trans are "other" when it comes to sporting events because they are genetically male and will perform differently from those who are genetically female. And women have been "othered" since forever, so your argument actually holds no weight when you say trans women shouldn't be "othered". If gender and sex aren't binary, we should have more categories, not fewer.

My argument is trans women are women. JKR argues the opposite.

NP, but a large component of "women's right" center on women's reproductive rights (access to birth control, abortions, etc) which are inherently only something cis-women experience. I liked the PP that described it as a ven-diagram. There are cis-women only issues, there are trans-women only issues, and there are women issues .... so if gender is non binary, having more specific categories for these things seems to make sense. Not all "women's right" issues pertain to trans-women and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It sounds unlikely to you because you’ve never dealt with abusive men.

Women trying to get out of abusive relationships are in a lot of danger. It doesn’t take much imagination to think of scenarios where the abuser could get a friend to go find his wife in a shelter and use the trans-label as a cover. This is exactly what JK Rowling was talking about when she said this destroys safe spaces for women.

How exactly do you think DV shelters work? Do you think anyone can just turn up and walk in?

I think domestic violence shelters have a lot of discretion — however, there’s already been one example where a trans woman (who sounded and presented as male) was not allowed to volunteer with rape victims because it made them feel uncomfortable. The trans woman sued and succeed in shutting down the shelter. This literally “destroyed” a safe space for women.

If you think other shelters haven’t taken notice, you are delusional. For a violent man wanting to locate his wife, the trans exception provides very easy access to formerly safe spaces.

I would really like the PP to provide a link to that story before people just go restating her comments as fact.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/03/21/trans-woman-hopes-funding-cut-will-send-message-to-vancouver-rape-crisis-group/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gah, I can’t imagine anyone wanting to be a woman. I’ve been one for 50 years and as far as I can tell, there’s very little upside.

Really? I love being a black woman, hardships, stereotypes, racism and all. I wouldn't choose to be anything else.

[Anonymous]

Also, in British Columbia, a trans woman sued several immigrant small businesses for not providing Brazilian waxing to the trans woman's male genitals. The service providers claimed they did not know how to wax male genitals and felt uncomfortable doing so. They were sued and a few of them shut down.

The human rights complaint was later dismissed.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/transgender-womans-waxing-complaint-dismissed-by-human-rights-tribunal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Something like 1 in 4 people who are trans have *attempted* suicide. The average life expectancy for Black women who are trans is 35. The discrimination trans people face and endure is horrific. But yeah go off about hs sports ...

That stat appears to be false, and is based on the murder rate of sex workers in Latin America. https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/09/23/41471629/is-the-life-expectancy-of-trans-women-in-the-us-just-35-no

[Anonymous]

I have no idea and don't want to read up on it. I am in favor of most gender identity issues. Just don't have a bio male compete in women's sports, pro or college. That is the only thing I care about when it comes to trans identities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone born male has a tremendous advantage over those born female in some sports. Track and field is a good example. Lung capacity matters a lot. Those born male usually have a lung capacity exceeding that for born females.

In some states, all a high school student has to do to compete is say (s)he identifies with a certain gender. There's a lawsuit in Connecticut brought by born females who lost out to born males and thus were blocked from going forward. For example, for one event, the top 2 finishers in each section go on to the state final. In one section, both of the top 2 finishers were born male. This meant that no born female from that section advanced to the state final. In reality, this means that those young women aren't going to get the benefit of competing in the state finals in college admissions and/or athletic scholarships. So, they are suing.

I agree with them. This is unfair competition. You don't have to hate trans people to think it's unfair.

How much do you have to care about sports for THIS to be the hill you die on? Like, trans* youths are killing themselves at alarming rates, but somehow the debate becomes "what about the high school athletes?"

That is a truly f*cked up set of priorities.

Exactly. Since high school sports are so inconsequential, there’s no need for trans athletes to die on that hill. Trans girls can continue to compete on the boys’ teams, and trans boys can continue on the girls’ teams, as they always have.