UNC vs UVA (OOS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You were trying to argue that UNC is somehow better as an undergraduate institution than UVA because it does more research. I'd argue it is largely irrelevant, and at many schools, it is just a distraction.

UNC is by far a better research institution than UVA because it does a higher magnitude and more impactful research. For high-achieving undergraduates, this is a great benefit because they can work with top of the field professors. For middle of the road undergraduates who don't care about research, it would primarily be displayed in better and more course offerings and perhaps better TA's.

Research is certainly not a distraction. Universities exist to do research. To argue otherwise is idiotic and not understand the true purpose of universities.
Regardless, UVA is not a small LAC. If it was, you could perhaps argue it is better for undergraduates that need more attention from instructors. But its not, its only 2000 students smaller than UNC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the OP is not considering between UNC and Harvey Mudd/Davidson/Amherst/Williams/Darthmouth/Pomona etc. She's considering between UNC and UVA.

I don't put a lot into USNews rankings, but if you want to go by them: Univ. of Michigan is #7 on that list, Georgia Tech is #8, UC-Berkeley is #21, UNC is #42. UVA is not on the list at all. Generally these 5 schools would be considered peers and DCUM would consider UVA to be better than all other than Berkeley.
Some other interesting schools that are generally considered academically worse than UVA on DCUM but are higher on this list: UT-Austin at #14, UC-Davis at #34, Wisconsin at #34, Michigan State at #44, Texas A&M at #44, Delaware at #44, Rutgers at #50, Central Florida at #50, SUNY #59, Georgia at #59.

Again I don't put much worth on these rankings though. I am talking about UNC entirely from its national/international research reputation.
But again, the average student at UVA is probably slightly more academically talented than UNC because of the in-state ratio, and also North Carolina's Republican legislature has made big funding cuts over the past decade while UVA has pretty much turned into a private-school-type fundraising and has a $10 billion endowment.

ARGH. LOOK AT THE RIGHT LIST! UVA has been a top public university No, 2 or 3 for the last 27 years, always above Michigan and way above UNC. Last year was an anomoly because USN&WR decided incorrectly to include Pell Grant participation, which the universities have no control over due to demographics. USN&WR is correcting that. So you have UVA at no. 2, 3, 4 and UNC down at 6 for public universities. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

I was replying to the poster that posted the undergraduate research rankings. Regardless the whole point of what I'm trying to say is that Michigan, UNC, Berkeley, et.al. are world famous research institutions, which provides certain benefits for high-achieving students that UVA, which needs to do more work on research, may not be able to.

Oh
My
God.

THE OP’S DAUGHTER IS NOT CONSIDERING BERKELEY OR MICHIGAN. Or College of Wooster. Or Elon. She is deciding between UNC and UVA. What those other schools are ranked is completely irrelevant to THIS discussion. If you want to start a thread regarding best undergraduate teaching or research then feel free to do so. Just stop hijacking.

No one is hijacking other than you who is hijacking a conversation about merits of research institutions. I replied to an individual bringing up Michigan, Wooster, Elon, etc.
My argument has always been regarding how research institutions can be uniquely beneficial for high-achieving students. Not a hard concept to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Your sense of beauty is a little off the mainstream to say the least if you are not a troll.
UVA is multiple times richer than UNC in terms of endowment, you think it can't keep up its world class UNESCO campus? While UVA has the Jefferson Rotunda and The Lawn, UNC has an Old Well, which are typical symbolic scenaries of each school. For those who could not visit the campus, you should already got a sense by just looking at some online pictures that these two schools each got a campus obviously in different caliber.

UNC gets much more money per student from the state than UVA.

[Anonymous]

UNC by a mile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Your sense of beauty is a little off the mainstream to say the least if you are not a troll.
UVA is multiple times richer than UNC in terms of endowment, you think it can't keep up its world class UNESCO campus? While UVA has the Jefferson Rotunda and The Lawn, UNC has an Old Well, which are typical symbolic scenaries of each school. For those who could not visit the campus, you should already got a sense by just looking at some online pictures that these two schools each got a campus obviously in different caliber.

UNC gets much more money per student from the state than UVA.

UVA does not need much money from the state because it has strong alumni donations. That is the point -- UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni and alumni are more in love with UVA, considering its much bigger endowment with a much smaller student body compared to UNC.

[Anonymous]

UVA has 16000 students, UNC has 18000. That's not "much smaller".
Although indeed UVA has $10 billion in endowment. It has pretty much become a private school in that regard.

UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni

That's questionable. More likely, students that go to UVA tend to be the children of the wealthy from NYC and the South that weren't quite good enough for the Ivies and want a fun university experience.

[Anonymous]

Can't go wrong with either; both are well regarded. If your DC is interested in the sciences, then UNC is definitely a better choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clemons 3rd and 4th are brand new
Alderman is closed for a giant renovation

There are a dozen libraries at UVA. What library did you go into that was so bad?

All the dorms got renovated so there is AC for every dorm now. The Castle got made into a Sweet Greens type place. They’ve been renovating constantly.

Exactly! Constant construction on grounds. Not sure what PP is talking about.

[Anonymous]

This to and fro, back and forth, point-counterpoint bickering has grown tiresome.

Let's spice things up:

Who would win if a civil war broke out between UVA and UNC?

Cavaliers or Tar Heels? Who's it gonna be?

[Anonymous]

There isn't much difference between them. Pick the one that seems right and forget about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Your sense of beauty is a little off the mainstream to say the least if you are not a troll.
UVA is multiple times richer than UNC in terms of endowment, you think it can't keep up its world class UNESCO campus? While UVA has the Jefferson Rotunda and The Lawn, UNC has an Old Well, which are typical symbolic scenaries of each school. For those who could not visit the campus, you should already got a sense by just looking at some online pictures that these two schools each got a campus obviously in different caliber.

UNC gets much more money per student from the state than UVA.

UVA does not need much money from the state because it has strong alumni donations. That is the point -- UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni and alumni are more in love with UVA, considering its much bigger endowment with a much smaller student body compared to UNC.

Supporting data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Your sense of beauty is a little off the mainstream to say the least if you are not a troll.
UVA is multiple times richer than UNC in terms of endowment, you think it can't keep up its world class UNESCO campus? While UVA has the Jefferson Rotunda and The Lawn, UNC has an Old Well, which are typical symbolic scenaries of each school. For those who could not visit the campus, you should already got a sense by just looking at some online pictures that these two schools each got a campus obviously in different caliber.

UNC gets much more money per student from the state than UVA.

UVA does not need much money from the state because it has strong alumni donations. That is the point -- UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni and alumni are more in love with UVA, considering its much bigger endowment with a much smaller student body compared to UNC.

Supporting data?

It's all in the usnews college ranking profile for each school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA has 16000 students, UNC has 18000. That's not "much smaller".
Although indeed UVA has $10 billion in endowment. It has pretty much become a private school in that regard.

UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni

That's questionable. More likely, students that go to UVA tend to be the children of the wealthy from NYC and the South that weren't quite good enough for the Ivies and want a fun university experience.

No, they are the hard working deserving children of Virginia, NoVa, in particular. Very hard working students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC without a doubt and regardless of the cost differential.

Have you toured the campuses? UNC wins hands down. The campus is beautiful and well-kept. There is a lot of money being poured into it and you can see it everywhere on campus. Whereas UVA is really run down and it has a strong hard-luck vibe now that it didn't have back when I was a student there. I wish I could say that UVA has done a good job keeping up appearances but it just hasn't. Enough said.

There also is a lot to be said for the easy drive to UNC. A straight shot down 95 to 84 on nice straight interstate highways. It is pretty much a piece of cake.

Although in this area there are a lot of UVA supporters it is my opinion that UNC has a better national/international profile and name recognition.

UVA’s campus is not “really run down”. WTF?

Have you been there recently? The last time I was there was in the beginning of March on a beautiful sunny day. The campus looked horrible. I mean it always has looked bad (and I am a UVA alum) but it looked even worse than normal. It reeked of "I've given up." The next day we went to UNC and it was a really stinky rainy day but the campus was gorgeous. The green space was well-groomed the facilities were well-maintained, and it looked about 1000 times better than UVA. We were at both schools showing a cousin's kid around. At that point we didn't know he would get in to both but it was pretty clear after those two days that UNC was going to be his first choice just based on the campus feel. Coupled with the fact that it will give him a better graduate school path, it is a no-brainer.

Your sense of beauty is a little off the mainstream to say the least if you are not a troll.
UVA is multiple times richer than UNC in terms of endowment, you think it can't keep up its world class UNESCO campus? While UVA has the Jefferson Rotunda and The Lawn, UNC has an Old Well, which are typical symbolic scenaries of each school. For those who could not visit the campus, you should already got a sense by just looking at some online pictures that these two schools each got a campus obviously in different caliber.

UNC gets much more money per student from the state than UVA.

UVA does not need much money from the state because it has strong alumni donations. That is the point -- UVA has more successful (wealthy) alumni and alumni are more in love with UVA, considering its much bigger endowment with a much smaller student body compared to UNC.

Supporting data?

It's all in the usnews college ranking profile for each school.

I must not have the USNews edition that says explicitly that UVA alumni are more successful and wealthy.

[Anonymous]

All things being equal, I would pick UNC for out of state versus UVA since UNC's OOS tuition is 36K this year, and UVA's is $46.3K.

Signed UVa grad.