SAT "adversity" adjustment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So much for parents sacrificing to move into a nice, safe neighborhood with a good neighborhood school. When you can spend half the price and buy in a crappy school system and get your kid into any school they want.

This idea is half baked.

This was not well though through.

This is one GOOD thing about this index. Neighborhood school disparity is one of the worst things about the American educational system. You cannot take credit (and your kid can't take credit) for your kid's life success when it's bought and paid for.

Bullshit. If you work hard to buy a nice house in a good school district, you can absolutely take credit for your kid's success. Facilitating their success is why you are doing it. If you didn't care about your kid's success, you wouldn't have to care where you lived.

But won’t parents have to care about their kids’ adversity scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

Thanks! You could have posted it ten pages ago. But better late than never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it’s kind of like a Trulia assessment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

Thanks! You could have posted it ten pages ago. But better late than never.

Yes, I could have avoided the snark. BTW, I am not the OP of the thread. I couldn't access the WSJ article either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bing. Bing. Bing.

I see this as moving kids over to the ACT

I just read an article that says that the ACT is working on a similar index. There is no escaping this.

Then I think the streaming will happen by college major. i.e. the diversity/adversity admits will self-sort in college, and I don't think the top-brand colleges will have anything close to a clean brand any more

Can you explain what you mean?

what she is saying is if "others" are being admitted to an Ivy... their brand is diminished...

it's like when blacks and Hispanics started wearing North Face... it's cache was ruined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/sat-to-give-students-adversity-score-to-capture-social-and-economic-background-11557999000

Wonder how they'll define adversity.

It is hard for me to support it as a "donut hole" parent, but I do recognize that this is appropriate direction given how prep classes routinely up SAT scores by 200-300 points.

Thoughts?

this is a fallacy--I think external studies have that when you use a real SAT for pre and a real SAT for post (not some in-house equivalent amassed from selecting problems from prior tests or creating analogues)prep raised scores on average 30-40 pts (which is not unsubstantial, but not drastic) and that most prep places massaged data in ways to make gains appear far larger than an external assessment would find.

I taught LSAT and SAT Math prep in law school as my side gig for Princeton Review. This is true. Most of the gain then were in math, because verbal is hard to move. Now, reading comp is hard to move, and English sentence, grammar section is less so. Most gains are based on test familiarity, which kids can get without spending thousands of dollars. I was able to move my kids scores 60 points in about 10-15 hours with just the SAT Book of 8 released tests.

So, as an aside, I will save you thousands of dollars.

Have your kid take a released copy. Look at what they missed. How many in each section. Pick their weakest section that isn’t reading comp— the RC score is very hard to move. Your kid has either read their whole life or not. So, look where they can get the most points back with the least effort.

Have your kid work through the SAT Test Book pointers on their worst, no RC section, and do some Kahn Academy on that section.

Have your kid kid retake their worst section only several times using the released tests and really look and understand what they missed and why.

Repeat if you have time and they missed a significant number of questions on their second worst non RC section.

Take another couple full tests in the lead up to the SAT.

That’s all most test prep companies do. And they are less efficient, because they are teaching to a class and do both language and math, which your kid might not need. And they have to pretend RC will move. It won’t.

I think that you are thinking along the lines of a standard SAT test prep course...vs a test prep lifestyle...where they actively spend time working on test prep from 6th grade on up...

If you familiarize yourself with the test on that level, your scores will increase dramatically...

Plus, PP, those are great suggestions, thank you. Khan academy SAT Prep does pretty much what you are suggesting, I believe. And it's free. So that is already leveling the playing field as far as test prep.

It’s more than the actual prep course. Does the child have access to a device to take the Khan course? Does he or she have Internet at home? Or does the child have to go the library to use the Internet? Does the child have a way to get to the library? Does he or she have parents in the house to supervise nightly prep, or do the parents work at night? Does the child work at night? Do the parents know the importance of test prep, and encourage it?

Do the parents have a happy marriage?
Did the kid have a dog growing up?
How many siblings does the kid have?
Is the kid obese? Unattractive? Nerdy?

Let’s go America! THIS is the slippery slope!

[Anonymous]

how will this work for home schooled kids? international kids? wealthy private school kids who don't have AP classes available?
so many questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it’s kind of like a Trulia assessment?

More like Zillow meets greatschools.net.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bing. Bing. Bing.

I see this as moving kids over to the ACT

I just read an article that says that the ACT is working on a similar index. There is no escaping this.

Then I think the streaming will happen by college major. i.e. the diversity/adversity admits will self-sort in college, and I don't think the top-brand colleges will have anything close to a clean brand any more

Can you explain what you mean?

what she is saying is if "others" are being admitted to an Ivy... their brand is diminished...

it's like when basic white people started wearing North Face... it's cache was ruined.

FTFY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

So, basically you are going to ding my kid's score because they are in a two parent household, parents worked their butt off to get a degree and were able to hold onto jobs instead of doing drugs??? I need to apologize to my child that I did not become a single mother, did not do drugs, spent every penny I earned because they are being penalized because of my life choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

Thanks! You could have posted it ten pages ago. But better late than never.

Yes, I could have avoided the snark. BTW, I am not the OP of the thread. I couldn't access the WSJ article either.

Fair enough. Peace our.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's to stop a kid from lying about income to College Board? Many kids may not actually even know an accurate answer.

I would tell my child things not to report unless it was mandatory. I don’t want to give my kid a HHI number anyway.

Did you read the article? They are using the median income of your neighborhood, not your family income.

Nope. The article is behind a paywall. If you insist on posting paywall articles, please give enough info for people to discuss, or at the very least, don’t get snarky when they don’t know. I pay for the NYT and WaPo. I’m not also paying for the WSJ to participate in this discussion.

I know you already self report stuff like parents education.

I didn't post the article and found a link to another article that wasn't behind a paywall. Read or do some research before you post.

Not the way that works. Post a link to the non paywall site. If people don’t read it, then you can snark. But, everyone trying to comment shouldn’t have to scour the internet looking for a source.

BtW— I did research before posting and found nonpaywall sites. They all quote from the WSJ, but none of them specifically said income was by neighborhood rather than self reported, which is what OO is snarking about.

Post a link people can access to what you want to discuss. Then we can all be on the same page. Easy.

WSJ gives you zero free articles.

I found this in 10 second searching: "Family environment will assess what the median income is of where the student's family is from; whether the student is from a single parent household; the educational level of the parents; and whether English is a second language."

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adversity-score-sat-exam-college-board-calculate-students-admissions-college-wall-street-journal/

So, basically you are going to ding my kid's score because they are in a two parent household, parents worked their butt off to get a degree and were able to hold onto jobs instead of doing drugs??? I need to apologize to my child that I did not become a single mother, did not do drugs, spent every penny I earned because they are being penalized because of my life choices.

What do you mean by ding? College board is not taking off points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So, basically you are going to ding my kid's score because they are in a two parent household, parents worked their butt off to get a degree and were able to hold onto jobs instead of doing drugs??? I need to apologize to my child that I did not become a single mother, did not do drugs, spent every penny I earned because they are being penalized because of my life choices.

No, your kids had it easier because of that stable upbringing and their accomplishments as compared to others should be viewed in that context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Bing. Bing. Bing.

I see this as moving kids over to the ACT

I just read an article that says that the ACT is working on a similar index. There is no escaping this.

Then I think the streaming will happen by college major. i.e. the diversity/adversity admits will self-sort in college, and I don't think the top-brand colleges will have anything close to a clean brand any more

Can you explain what you mean?

what she is saying is if "others" are being admitted to an Ivy... their brand is diminished...

it's like when basic white people started wearing North Face... it's cache was ruined.

FTFY

no you turned it into something that make you feel better... it didn't tank until blacks and Hispanics wore it.