China Retaliates Against the U.S. With Its Own Higher Tariffs

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.


Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html
Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.


Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."



That's your opinion. Economists and other experts disagree. Most people would prefer not to fight wars where both sides end up worse off. Trump doesn't understand tariffs or foreign policy and even his own party is trying to get him to see reason as he attempts to drive the economy into the ground.


Sorry, what? Economists and other experts don't believe that a more open and fair trading China is a benefit to both US and China, as well as Europeans? Can you quote any of these economists and experts? I point to China's past 2 decades of impressive economic growth as proof that a more open and fairly trading china is beneficial to China, the US, and Europe.

You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.


Okay... how is what these economics have said at odds with what I've said? I'm in agreement that tariffs will result in higher prices for consumers. I'm not assuming that the result of the trade war will be a more openly trading China - again I am not a fortune teller, I don't know what's going to happen. I do know that this is the goal of the trade war, and my opinion is that it's a worthwhile goal to work towards, since a more openly trading China is good for the US and China - it will lift many more Chinese people out of poverty and bring about progress on the environment and political side of the equation as well, as economically secure people will invariably demand better environment and more personal freedoms.



So basically, you know these tariffs are harmful, that the outcome of a more open trading partner in China is uncertain, but you are willing to have millions of Americans pay higher prices and thousands of American workers lose their job because you're hopeful something good will happen. We need to have smarter policy than your "hopes." Trade wars aren't new. People know how they end, and it isn't pretty for either side.


+1 This is like Trump closing down the Government because he wanted to make people pay for his wall. At the end of 30 days workers were suffering, national parks had suffered irreparable harm and he still didn't get his wall funding. Yet he's going after China not realizing that they have plenty of leverage themselves.


Sounds like there are a lot of trolls on this thread. This isn't a war to end slavery or to achieve independence from a colonial power. This is a trade war and Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work. All Americans are going to pay for this trade war--higher taxes to support subsidies for farmers and manufacturers who will suffer in this trade war, and higher prices on goods.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.


+1 Like someone said upthread, the PP is hoping something good will happen. But there's no evidence that it will. And there's plenty of evidence that higher tariffs will lead to higher prices and lost jobs in certain industries.


So, hope is a bad thing now? Does Obama know about this?


If there's no evidence behind your hopes, you're just harming people's lives. Get a clue.


LOL, why do you think that the Chinese delegation came to the US to discuss these issues. Why do you think that they substantially agreed to all of the demands of the US in terms of trade policy, just not in terms of monitoring and enforcement? Why do you think that European countries agree with the US that China is cheating on trade? Why do financial analysts believe that China needs to be more progressive in its economy and further reduce the importance of state owned enterprises, especially in key industries such as energy and finance, in order to maintain its blistering pace of economic growth? Why is it that since these talks began, the US stock market is up while the Chinese stock market is down? All of these are indicators that the US's position in these trade talks are stronger than China's. Now, China may cut off its nose to spite its face, no one can prevent the Chinese leaders from doing this. The hope is that China is willing to take a bruised ego in exchange for further economic development.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I'm the "above poster", I literally am in the middle of this trade war because I am engaged in international trade. I pay a portion of these tariffs that are going up. I'm putting my money where my mouth is.


Sure whatever. You can be whomever you want to be on the Internet. But the fact is, that Americans will pay more due to this unnecessary trade war.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/us-china-trade-tariffs.html
Economists differ in their forecasts of how much tariffs on both sides will reduce economic growth, but most agree that the cost of tariffs is passed on to businesses or consumers in the form of higher prices.

The president’s economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, on Sunday said that both the United States and China would “suffer” as a result of the tariffs.


Okay, well given that it's an anonymous forum, the fact that you are engaging means you are by default in acceptance of certain claims of facts. You are free to challenge them, and I'm willing to discuss my knowledge international trade in any way to establish my "bona fides".

Again, very few people wants to fight a war for the sake of the war itself, but rather people reluctantly enters war in order to achieve some goal after the war. People like you who keeps talking about the effects of the war itself is not convince those of us who are focused on the goals of the war, which is a more open and fair trading partner in China, to the benefit of both the US and China, and those free-loading Europeans who will obviously turn to China and say "I'll have what the US is having."



That's your opinion. Economists and other experts disagree. Most people would prefer not to fight wars where both sides end up worse off. Trump doesn't understand tariffs or foreign policy and even his own party is trying to get him to see reason as he attempts to drive the economy into the ground.


Sorry, what? Economists and other experts don't believe that a more open and fair trading China is a benefit to both US and China, as well as Europeans? Can you quote any of these economists and experts? I point to China's past 2 decades of impressive economic growth as proof that a more open and fairly trading china is beneficial to China, the US, and Europe.

You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.


Okay... how is what these economics have said at odds with what I've said? I'm in agreement that tariffs will result in higher prices for consumers. I'm not assuming that the result of the trade war will be a more openly trading China - again I am not a fortune teller, I don't know what's going to happen. I do know that this is the goal of the trade war, and my opinion is that it's a worthwhile goal to work towards, since a more openly trading China is good for the US and China - it will lift many more Chinese people out of poverty and bring about progress on the environment and political side of the equation as well, as economically secure people will invariably demand better environment and more personal freedoms.



So basically, you know these tariffs are harmful, that the outcome of a more open trading partner in China is uncertain, but you are willing to have millions of Americans pay higher prices and thousands of American workers lose their job because you're hopeful something good will happen. We need to have smarter policy than your "hopes." Trade wars aren't new. People know how they end, and it isn't pretty for either side.


+1 This is like Trump closing down the Government because he wanted to make people pay for his wall. At the end of 30 days workers were suffering, national parks had suffered irreparable harm and he still didn't get his wall funding. Yet he's going after China not realizing that they have plenty of leverage themselves.


Sounds like there are a lot of trolls on this thread. This isn't a war to end slavery or to achieve independence from a colonial power. This is a trade war and Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work. All Americans are going to pay for this trade war--higher taxes to support subsidies for farmers and manufacturers who will suffer in this trade war, and higher prices on goods.


This. Trump is playing with people’s livelihoods.
Anonymous
Trump started a trade war with no exit strategy. He's backed himself into a corner by setting ridiculously lofty goals and only a 3rd grade understanding of how international trade works. He pulled out of the TPP, killing our leverage, because he wants a bright shiny new agreement with "Trump" written all over it in gold letters. He killed NAFTA and replaced it with NAFTA 1.1, just so he could say he did something.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You must have reading comprehension issues. Economist and other experts have noted that Americans will pay higher prices as a result of these trade wars. Including Trump's own chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow. You're assuming that the result of the trade war will be a China that trades more openly. But you haven't explained how that is going to happen when China just slapped tariffs on many American goods today.


+1 Like someone said upthread, the PP is hoping something good will happen. But there's no evidence that it will. And there's plenty of evidence that higher tariffs will lead to higher prices and lost jobs in certain industries.


So, hope is a bad thing now? Does Obama know about this?


If there's no evidence behind your hopes, you're just harming people's lives. Get a clue.


LOL, why do you think that the Chinese delegation came to the US to discuss these issues. Why do you think that they substantially agreed to all of the demands of the US in terms of trade policy, just not in terms of monitoring and enforcement? Why do you think that European countries agree with the US that China is cheating on trade? Why do financial analysts believe that China needs to be more progressive in its economy and further reduce the importance of state owned enterprises, especially in key industries such as energy and finance, in order to maintain its blistering pace of economic growth? Why is it that since these talks began, the US stock market is up while the Chinese stock market is down? All of these are indicators that the US's position in these trade talks are stronger than China's. Now, China may cut off its nose to spite its face, no one can prevent the Chinese leaders from doing this. The hope is that China is willing to take a bruised ego in exchange for further economic development.

Totally correct.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Trump started a trade war with no exit strategy. He's backed himself into a corner by setting ridiculously lofty goals and only a 3rd grade understanding of how international trade works. He pulled out of the TPP, killing our leverage, because he wants a bright shiny new agreement with "Trump" written all over it in gold letters. He killed NAFTA and replaced it with NAFTA 1.1, just so he could say he did something.



+1. It’s going to end with taxpayers subsidizing the losers in the Trump trade war. Already he’s putting big subsidies in place to help farmers hurt by tariffs. He’s making the whole economy less efficient.
Anonymous
And the market just dropped over 600 points because of this trade war. But hey, let's all listen to the guy who went bankrupt operating casinos.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:And the market just dropped over 600 points because of this trade war. But hey, let's all listen to the guy who went bankrupt operating casinos.

How exactly do you address climate change if you continue the massive importation of cheap Chinese junk?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's ironic for China to call for mutual trust and respect when they are guilty of intellectual property thefts, forced technology transfers, and anti-competitive behaviors that block foreign goods/services from being competitive in the Chinese market. Tell me, can you hail an Uber in China?

Mutual trust and respect my @ss. What they want is for the US to go back being complacent like we were under Obama, to stay quiet while being bent over a barrel by China.


The US designed the modern economic system that benefits us after the WW2. We are 5% of world population but we enjoy a disproportionate 25% of world wealth. China and India with 1/3 world population were the largest economies in the world until early 19th century. Why do you think their economies collapsed? They simply couldn't compete against free slave labor and stolen Native American resources extorted for the cost of a few bullets.

Today China and India are just reclaiming their historical position as the top economies of the world. Firs t rule of Capitalism: Those with large internal market of their own will control the world economy. That is what is happening and this time no temporary distortion such as slave labor and stolen resources from a new found land.

America (and the west) are crying fowl only because China is beating them at the game they created for their own benefit. The power has shifted to Asia and the world has come a full circle. We can no longer dictate to China(or to India or Russia) and we need to compete and not complain. We need access to the Asian market because China is largest market for GM, Boeing, etc. India is largest market for the likes of google, FB, P&G etc. Millions of jobs will be lost in America if we lose access to their markets. That is the reality no American wants to talk about.

The solution is to create a large internal market for American goods by creating TPP like exclusive zone. But thats what the conman killed. He is just a loser who is creating a public REALITY SHOW OF him acting as if he is doing good for America. But the truth is he hasn't done a single thing he promised except for tax cuts for the rich.

NAFTA is still the law. Dreamers are still here. There is no wall. The trade deficits with china is at historic high. Coal/Steel jobs aren't back. North korea is still flying missiles. BUT THE RICH GOT THEIR TAX CUTS. Trumpsters are conned.


What a dumb-@ss post. I am going to leave aside India because I am not familiar with their history, culture, politics, and economic system. I am, however, familiar with Chinese history, culture, politics, and economic system. China's economic collapse at the end of the 19th century was because it remained an insular country throughout the Qing dynasty. It believed that it was the economic/cultural/political power center of the whole world and that it didn't need to worry about what lies beyond. The rulers believed they had a mandate from heaven to rule. China was simply not participating in the important period of industrial revolution. Remember that slavery was abolished in Europe in the early 1800s, and in US in the mid 1800s. Between that and the start of WWI, China simply languished and became ever more in debt to western countries. Globalization trends significantly amplified the ability for a country to advance its economy, and WWII serves as somewhat of a dividing point for the world, both in terms of before and after, and also between the divergent paths of capitalism and communism. For the countries that went with capitalism, they flourished, and this included Asian countries like Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. For the countries that chose communism, and this included western countries like Hungary, Poland, and Romania, their economies collapsed. The post-WWII economic hardship that China went through in comparison to the prosperity of the US is not because the US had slave labor, but because communism/socialism is crap.

China WASN'T ABLE TO participate simply because their competitive advantage vanished because of 300 years of slave labor and seemingly inexhaustible stolen resources from the Americas and Africa. Read your history well. America became great only because of these two factors. Period. You can't wash away that there was no advantage due to free slave labor and stolen native american resources.

China is indeed growing strong again, because it has slowly abandoned aspects of communism/socialism and adopted capitalism and other free market mechanisms. It is *because* China has become more like the US that it is now growing stronger, not because China is doing something of its own invention.

Thats what I said. China has beaten the west in their own game.

I also find it incredibly ignorant when people raise the suggestion that the US is somehow afraid of a powerful China, that it can then no longer dictate to China. Tell me, is the US afraid of a powerful Canada, or a powerful Japan? Was the US afraid of the formation of the EU? So long as a country trades fairly, the US doesn't really give a damn. Having a prosperous China that trades fairly and openly with the rest of the world is to *EVERYONE's* benefit, it's what the US wants to see. The US has shown time and time again that it is an incredibly generous and friendly country.

US with 5% of world population has 25% of world wealth, That doesn't sound like a country that is trading fairly. PLEASE. Stop moralizing. US has setup the capitalistic system to benefit itself at the cost of others. Now that China is doing the same, US is crying hoarse about fair play.

China is not beating America at our own game, because they are not playing the same game - they are cheating, and that's the point. So long as they continue to cheat, the US and EU nations will continue to pressure China to change their behavior. The US and the EU wants cooperative allies, not thieves and back stabbers.
HA HA HA. The delusions of people like you. America cheats by giving subsidy to agri, oil, steel,coal etc. Everybody cheats. The one who has cheated all along suddenly doesn't like others cheating as well. US and EU simply don't like the emergence of the NEW ASIA because they are used to the so called western dominance of the world. That it was a historic accident due directly to the new found American continental resources is conveniently forgotten. Now that there is no more free access to resources and slave labor is no longer passe, it is reverting to historical dominance of Asia.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's ironic for China to call for mutual trust and respect when they are guilty of intellectual property thefts, forced technology transfers, and anti-competitive behaviors that block foreign goods/services from being competitive in the Chinese market. Tell me, can you hail an Uber in China?

Mutual trust and respect my @ss. What they want is for the US to go back being complacent like we were under Obama, to stay quiet while being bent over a barrel by China.


Well, okay. But you're only right if this works. If it stops China from stealing our IP, undercutting us globally, etc.


It has brought them to the table, hasn't it? Why any American would be against Trump making this effort to fight back against China is a mystery. If you can read Chinese, their discussion forums are a mixture of defiance and worry that the US has finally come to its senses and will substantially reduce the amount of free-loading that China has been able to get away with in the past.


Everyone plays Trump and the conman plays Americans for stupid, this is his REALITY TV. Coming to the table is just a time wasting tactic that everyone is deploying. NK came to the table and nothing happened. Canada and MX came to the table and NOTHING HAPPENED. China came to the table and nothing happened. But the conman has passed a tax cuts for the rich. YAY!


Really? We don't have a new NAFTA 2.0?


Nope. It has not been passed by congress. Even if it is passed the changes are around the edges, so that the conman can proclaim victory after re-branding. The only thing great about the con man is that he is the best at conning people and branding. NO SUBSTANCE.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the market just dropped over 600 points because of this trade war. But hey, let's all listen to the guy who went bankrupt operating casinos.

How exactly do you address climate change if you continue the massive importation of cheap Chinese junk?


17:08?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's ironic for China to call for mutual trust and respect when they are guilty of intellectual property thefts, forced technology transfers, and anti-competitive behaviors that block foreign goods/services from being competitive in the Chinese market. Tell me, can you hail an Uber in China?

Mutual trust and respect my @ss. What they want is for the US to go back being complacent like we were under Obama, to stay quiet while being bent over a barrel by China.


Well, okay. But you're only right if this works. If it stops China from stealing our IP, undercutting us globally, etc.


It has brought them to the table, hasn't it? Why any American would be against Trump making this effort to fight back against China is a mystery. If you can read Chinese, their discussion forums are a mixture of defiance and worry that the US has finally come to its senses and will substantially reduce the amount of free-loading that China has been able to get away with in the past.


Everyone plays Trump and the conman plays Americans for stupid, this is his REALITY TV. Coming to the table is just a time wasting tactic that everyone is deploying. NK came to the table and nothing happened. Canada and MX came to the table and NOTHING HAPPENED. China came to the table and nothing happened. But the conman has passed a tax cuts for the rich. YAY!


Really? We don't have a new NAFTA 2.0?


Tell us how different and/or better it is than the first NAFTA.

We'll wait.


??? You can google for the differences yourself. The PP claimed that nothing happened. The fact that something happened shows that he is either ignorant, or was lying.


You do know that it hasn't actually been ratified yet, right?

(And no, you don't get to claim that it's substantially different without backing up your claim)


Not ratified is very different from "nothing happened". I am not the original person making the claim that nothing happened. The person making that claim has the burden of proof that nothing was changed between the old and new NAFTA agreements, not for me to prove that something was changed. Again, the PP claimed that nothing happened, either he was ignorant of the facts, or was lying. It's up to the PP to provide proof that "nothing happened".


Unless the so called jobs that went to MX and Canada comes back, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. Besides the new NAFTA is still not the law. Congress hasn't approved it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The stock market is not liking the Trump tarriffs.


Yea, if you get into a fist fight, your fist is going to sting a little from pounding the other guy's face in.


Crude metaphors = "Poorly educated" trumpsters that the cult leader loves.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Its about time we as a country dont cave, like presidents from both side of the aisle did over the past.


This liar-in-chief is just playing an elaborate reality TV show on the country. China is the largest economy in the world. They are not gonna be bullied into submission. It is smarter to create our own internal trade zone as big as China, something like TPP, and then wean away from China.


Wrong. China is the second largest economy behind us.

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/the-largest-economies-in-the-world



PPP is a better measure because a dollar goes a long way in China than the USA.
https://blog.euromonitor.com/special-report-top-10-largest-economies-in-2020/

Even by absolute terms, China is largest GDP by 2025.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9655058/China-to-be-worlds-biggest-economy-by-2025.html
Anonymous
So now we have to bail out US farmers. $15 billion to people who want looooow taxes and small gubmint. Love it.
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