When (if ever) will DC neighborhood schools be the default option for high achieving students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok - so assuming the distribute of gifted children in DC mirrors the national population, roughly 2% would qualify.

Even if we assume that DC is special, and has 2x that many gifted students, there would only be 265 of 6627 3rd graders (charter + DCPS) who would qualify.

DC is too small of a school district to support this, and there are just not that many students who it would serve.

So it’s okay to just not bother trying to adequately challenge the 300 truly gifted students in the system?

And why is DCPS “too small”? Many school systems that are far smaller have gifted classes.

[Anonymous]

Because there are 300 gifted students. And thousands of struggling ones. There are not endless resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because there are 300 gifted students. And thousands of struggling ones. There are not endless resources.

Sure, close down TJ and the Blair magnet and close down Harvard and Caltech. 100% of resources must go to the students not doing well! Forget the relatively fewer students who are doing well.

IF DCPS wants to keep driving away its top 5-10% of students, that's fine. But with a relatively low investment (differentiation) it could keep more of the good students. DCPS should put *most* of its resources into struggling students, but you don't create a top-notch system by leaching all your top students away to privates and MoCo. The top kids contribute to pulling up the whole system, just like TJ and Blair magnet play a role in pulling up the level of all in VA and MoCo.

I'm not sure a bottom-heavy system is all that good for making DCPS shine. DCPS can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because there are 300 gifted students. And thousands of struggling ones. There are not endless resources.

Sure, close down TJ and the Blair magnet and close down Harvard and Caltech. 100% of resources must go to the students not doing well! Forget the relatively fewer students who are doing well.

IF DCPS wants to keep driving away its top 5-10% of students, that's fine. But with a relatively low investment (differentiation) it could keep more of the good students. DCPS should put *most* of its resources into struggling students, but you don't create a top-notch system by leaching all your top students away to privates and MoCo. The top kids contribute to pulling up the whole system, just like TJ and Blair magnet play a role in pulling up the level of all in VA and MoCo.

I'm not sure a bottom-heavy system is all that good for making DCPS shine. DCPS can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Everyone in the Blair program isn’t gifted. And certainly not everyone at Harvard. And not all “high achieving” students are gifted. In fact more than a few kids who don’t get great grades in school are gifted, like my DC with a language disorder (have had them tested every 4 years to renew their IEP).

Folks on this thread keep changing the definition of who is underserved - the advanced students, the good students, or gifted.

And the solutions have veered between differentiation, tracking to test-in magnets.

[Anonymous]

Whether gifted or advanced, the point is that DCPS is doing next to nothing to meet their needs.

[Anonymous]

People, never in a million years is DCPS going to have any more gifted or advanced tracking than they currently have.
They care about one thing and one thing only and that is closing the achievement gap.
They are busy changing Wilson now to make sure that there is no variance in instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Problem is elementary schools can be locked into nice neighborhoods and the few OOB kids don’t rock the boat. Since middle school pulls multiple elementary schools they are more likely to have to pick up undesirable schools. There are only so many desirable schools and they mostly point to deal (maybe hardy) and they only send to Wilson.

Since there is a major SES imbalance that leaves not enough higher SES kids to feed all the other middle schools which cause the few not on deal track to mostly move or private. Really the only solution would be to reassign schools to deal. Split the high SES kids to other wards and break up the poverty concentrations at the rest.

It is a numbers game and considering the poor black kids out number the rich kids by multiples, it is startling that majority rich and largely white Wilson. exists. Fix that and we can talk about fixing the rest of the schools. Throwing all the poor kids into the other pile isn’t fair

I hate this crabs in a barrel mentality. Some people don't have good options so let's break what's working for others in the name of "fairness." And it wouldn't even fix the problem. Deal and Wilson are better options because of the student body/parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our issue was that it was too academic and the academics were not well differentiated. And the teacher was overwhelmed with all the needs and behaviors (and the behaviors came from kids of all income levels).

Of course there were behavior issues from kids of all backgrounds. It's not developmentally appropriate for kindergarten to be academic focused. It should be play-based. DCPS gets this wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DCPS starts tracking, test in classes, starts gifted programming in 3rd grade like every jurisdiction around us, most parents are not going to choose their local school.

AA middle class poster here (because for whatever reason, people on this board think we don't exist nor want high performing schools for our children), I agree. We need gifted programming. That's the only way I would feel comfortable sending my kids to the neighborhood school. It's insane that our house is worth 900k but our schools are awful.

Please advocate for this with the DC Council. White people can’t do this because they will just get accused of being racist by David Grosso.

I definitely will. I think its absurd that you would be considered racist. You want solid options for your children. What parent doesn't want that? Frankly, I think its inherently racist to believe that all races are not capable of being GT. I agree that there are studies that show that teachers often demonstrate implicit bias in determining who to place in the GT program. But, as long as teachers are given implicit bias training, there are programs in place to educate all parents about the process, and the program is sufficiently transparent, I believe GT programs are a great way to address differentiation needs in DC schools. I'm from a majority-minority city and I went to GT programs from 3rd through 12th.

NP here. I agree with you. Unfortunately, DCPS has historically been against tracking because they see it as a way to advance white kids above black kids. That seems racist to me, as if there wouldn't be lots of black kids who would qualify for the gifted track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because there are 300 gifted students. And thousands of struggling ones. There are not endless resources.

Sure, close down TJ and the Blair magnet and close down Harvard and Caltech. 100% of resources must go to the students not doing well! Forget the relatively fewer students who are doing well.

IF DCPS wants to keep driving away its top 5-10% of students, that's fine. But with a relatively low investment (differentiation) it could keep more of the good students. DCPS should put *most* of its resources into struggling students, but you don't create a top-notch system by leaching all your top students away to privates and MoCo. The top kids contribute to pulling up the whole system, just like TJ and Blair magnet play a role in pulling up the level of all in VA and MoCo.

I'm not sure a bottom-heavy system is all that good for making DCPS shine. DCPS can walk and chew gum at the same time.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DCPS starts tracking, test in classes, starts gifted programming in 3rd grade like every jurisdiction around us, most parents are not going to choose their local school.

AA middle class poster here (because for whatever reason, people on this board think we don't exist nor want high performing schools for our children), I agree. We need gifted programming. That's the only way I would feel comfortable sending my kids to the neighborhood school. It's insane that our house is worth 900k but our schools are awful.

Please advocate for this with the DC Council. White people can’t do this because they will just get accused of being racist by David Grosso.

I definitely will. I think its absurd that you would be considered racist. You want solid options for your children. What parent doesn't want that? Frankly, I think its inherently racist to believe that all races are not capable of being GT. I agree that there are studies that show that teachers often demonstrate implicit bias in determining who to place in the GT program. But, as long as teachers are given implicit bias training, there are programs in place to educate all parents about the process, and the program is sufficiently transparent, I believe GT programs are a great way to address differentiation needs in DC schools. I'm from a majority-minority city and I went to GT programs from 3rd through 12th.

NP here. I agree with you. Unfortunately, DCPS has historically been against tracking because they see it as a way to advance white kids above black kids. That seems racist to me, as if there wouldn't be lots of black kids who would qualify for the gifted track.

There was a federal court case in 1967 that ruled that DC had used tracking to enforce segregation. According to Wikipedia it was narrow (applied only to the tracking system at the time) but I imagine school leadership is worried about the same outcomes that led the court to strike down tracking 50 years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson_v._Hansen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People, never in a million years is DCPS going to have any more gifted or advanced tracking than they currently have.
They care about one thing and one thing only and that is closing the achievement gap.
They are busy changing Wilson now to make sure that there is no variance in instruction.

+1000. The advance students needs are not being met. They are not being challenged. They are not reaching their full potential. All DCPS cares about is bringing up the lowest kids. Their attitude is the advance kids are fine, nothing to do here. That is how they are trying to artificially close the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DCPS starts tracking, test in classes, starts gifted programming in 3rd grade like every jurisdiction around us, most parents are not going to choose their local school.

AA middle class poster here (because for whatever reason, people on this board think we don't exist nor want high performing schools for our children), I agree. We need gifted programming. That's the only way I would feel comfortable sending my kids to the neighborhood school. It's insane that our house is worth 900k but our schools are awful.

Please advocate for this with the DC Council. White people can’t do this because they will just get accused of being racist by David Grosso.

I definitely will. I think its absurd that you would be considered racist. You want solid options for your children. What parent doesn't want that? Frankly, I think its inherently racist to believe that all races are not capable of being GT. I agree that there are studies that show that teachers often demonstrate implicit bias in determining who to place in the GT program. But, as long as teachers are given implicit bias training, there are programs in place to educate all parents about the process, and the program is sufficiently transparent, I believe GT programs are a great way to address differentiation needs in DC schools. I'm from a majority-minority city and I went to GT programs from 3rd through 12th.

NP here. I agree with you. Unfortunately, DCPS has historically been against tracking because they see it as a way to advance white kids above black kids. That seems racist to me, as if there wouldn't be lots of black kids who would qualify for the gifted track.

There was a federal court case in 1967 that ruled that DC had used tracking to enforce segregation. According to Wikipedia it was narrow (applied only to the tracking system at the time) but I imagine school leadership is worried about the same outcomes that led the court to strike down tracking 50 years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson_v._Hansen

Oh give me a break. That was 1967. It’s 2019. The majority of school districts in the country have G & T, honors classes, AP, magnet schools. You don’t think DCPS could easily structure it fairly? You don’t think they can publish clear transparent guidelines on who gets into these programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, never in a million years is DCPS going to have any more gifted or advanced tracking than they currently have.
They care about one thing and one thing only and that is closing the achievement gap.
They are busy changing Wilson now to make sure that there is no variance in instruction.

+1000. The advance students needs are not being met. They are not being challenged. They are not reaching their full potential. All DCPS cares about is bringing up the lowest kids. Their attitude is the advance kids are fine, nothing to do here. That is how they are trying to artificially close the achievement gap.

Yup -- it's way easier to bring the top students down (just neglect them) than to bring the bottom students up.

[Anonymous]

Ah DCUM never changes.