When (if ever) will DC neighborhood schools be the default option for high achieving students?

[Anonymous]

I struggle with the concept of tracking and/or Gifted classes. One the one hand, I want my advanced child to be challenged. However, studies have shown that tracking only marginally helps the advanced kids but negatively impacts the kids left behind. If my kid is marginally helped in tracking, and only marginally hurt by not tracking- is the better "societal" choice the one that would positively impact the kids that would be left behind by tracking? Essentially, no tracking is the option that has the most positive net benefit for all kids.

I don't know the right answer. I think, in theory, if everyone plays along, that might be the right choice. But in DC, what is happening, is that by not offering tracking students are leaving the schools altogether. So no one is benefiting.

[Anonymous]

Ok - so assuming the distribute of gifted children in DC mirrors the national population, roughly 2% would qualify.

Even if we assume that DC is special, and has 2x that many gifted students, there would only be 265 of 6627 3rd graders (charter + DCPS) who would qualify.

DC is too small of a school district to support this, and there are just not that many students who it would serve.

[Anonymous]

He problem isn’t special classes for gifted kids. In a class where a third is two grade evens behind then even the average kids aren’t being served. We need tracked classes to pull out all the kids behind into special classes where they can get the focus they need. So that’s probably 40% of DC kids should not be in an at grade level class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When DCPS starts tracking, test in classes, starts gifted programming in 3rd grade like every jurisdiction around us, most parents are not going to choose their local school.

AA middle class poster here (because for whatever reason, people on this board think we don't exist nor want high performing schools for our children), I agree. We need gifted programming. That's the only way I would feel comfortable sending my kids to the neighborhood school. It's insane that our house is worth 900k but our schools are awful.

Please advocate for this with the DC Council. White people can’t do this because they will just get accused of being racist by David Grosso.

I definitely will. I think its absurd that you would be considered racist. You want solid options for your children. What parent doesn't want that? Frankly, I think its inherently racist to believe that all races are not capable of being GT. I agree that there are studies that show that teachers often demonstrate implicit bias in determining who to place in the GT program. But, as long as teachers are given implicit bias training, there are programs in place to educate all parents about the process, and the program is sufficiently transparent, I believe GT programs are a great way to address differentiation needs in DC schools. I'm from a majority-minority city and I went to GT programs from 3rd through 12th.

Studies show the failure of implicit bias training.

PP here, so I guess my question is what is the answer. Perhaps, greater accountability for teacher referrals for GT programs and less subjectivity for those referrals?

[Anonymous]

I think I’d want a teacher perspective on whether differentiation (at lets say 5th or 6th grade) is possible in the basic situation you find in many gentrifying parts of DC - classes that are mostly behind, maybe not too far, but a few way back there, a few students solidly at grade level and an even fewer who are clearly always a couple steps ahead.

What’s the right way to teach that cohort?

I’m not convinced it’s separate classes. That goes against a lot of wha I believe. But a teacher would have to tell me what’s really possible and to be expected. Not superhuman, but rather realistic to expect to help get most kids on grade level while reasonably serving kids who get it quicker and could progress academically if so served.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When DCPS adequately funds its middle schools and finds a way of educating children who have experienced trauma, then things will improve. Not before.

That being said, I do think Eastern may be next to gentrify, Stuart-Hobson being well underway.

So, you're response is, as soon as more white families enroll their children in neighborhood schools.? makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PTA $ issue has been getting a lot of talk here lately , and it is so absurd. Take out PatA funds, and the only thing you’ve impacted is the level of envy.

The PTA budgets are a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things, and eliminating those funds does absolutely nothing to improve educational outcomes (and arguably hurts them).

Cool then why all the fundraising

I so wish that DCPS (and charters) would adopt the same guidelines as MoCo schools regarding school-based fundraising

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/policy/pdf/cnd.pdf

Why? You live in DC. Why would DCPS adopt the policies of another school district, as if MCPS is the standard by which every school district should be measured. If you like MCPS so much, it is a short move for your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with the concept of tracking and/or Gifted classes. One the one hand, I want my advanced child to be challenged. However, studies have shown that tracking only marginally helps the advanced kids but negatively impacts the kids left behind. If my kid is marginally helped in tracking, and only marginally hurt by not tracking- is the better "societal" choice the one that would positively impact the kids that would be left behind by tracking? Essentially, no tracking is the option that has the most positive net benefit for all kids.

I don't know the right answer. I think, in theory, if everyone plays along, that might be the right choice. But in DC, what is happening, is that by not offering tracking students are leaving the schools altogether. So no one is benefiting. [/quote

These studies are BS. Straight up.

Stop believing education “research”. It’s 98% crap. Really. It’s a hard hard hard field to do good research in.
Trust the experience of teachers and parents, most of whom will tell you that tracking helps advanced kids learn faster.
I mean, really.

Tracking gives opportunity to all kids, as the AA poster above said- the one who was in a GT program through all of high school.
(Now, it’s important to make sure that smart kids of all SES levels and races can enter the tracking. That’s hard. But it’s doable. The answer is not “no tracking”.)

[Anonymous]

These studies are BS. Straight up.

Stop believing education “research”. It’s 98% crap. Really. It’s a hard hard hard field to do good research in.
Trust the experience of teachers and parents, most of whom will tell you that tracking helps advanced kids learn faster.
I mean, really.

Tracking gives opportunity to all kids, as the AA poster above said- the one who was in a GT program through all of high school.
(Now, it’s important to make sure that smart kids of all SES levels and races can enter the tracking. That’s hard. But it’s doable. The answer is not “no tracking”.)

[Anonymous]

Sorry I should say : “stop putting total faith in education research”. Go in with both eyes open knowing that many/most education studies are flawed.

[Anonymous]

Let's just pull students who score 5 on both sections of PARCC.

Because students who score 4 are not advanced. They are, by definition, on grade level.

[Anonymous]

It seems bizarre to me that there isn't tracking. Some kids really care about doing well in school -- they are competitive with the other students when it comes to grades. Other kids don't care. They'd rather be doing pretty much anything else than studying (which, granted, is not that fun). It seems weird to me that you would have all these kids in the same class -- not good for the kids, regardless of their opinion of studying, and a nightmare for the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I’d want a teacher perspective on whether differentiation (at lets say 5th or 6th grade) is possible in the basic situation you find in many gentrifying parts of DC - classes that are mostly behind, maybe not too far, but a few way back there, a few students solidly at grade level and an even fewer who are clearly always a couple steps ahead.

What’s the right way to teach that cohort?

I’m not convinced it’s separate classes. That goes against a lot of wha I believe. But a teacher would have to tell me what’s really possible and to be expected. Not superhuman, but rather realistic to expect to help get most kids on grade level while reasonably serving kids who get it quicker and could progress academically if so served.

It seems your confusing facts and wishful thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems bizarre to me that there isn't tracking. Some kids really care about doing well in school -- they are competitive with the other students when it comes to grades. Other kids don't care. They'd rather be doing pretty much anything else than studying (which, granted, is not that fun). It seems weird to me that you would have all these kids in the same class -- not good for the kids, regardless of their opinion of studying, and a nightmare for the teacher.

There. Is. Tracking.

Not in ES. Not at Deal. But at other MSs they are doing it. At HS there are multiple levels, with grade level, honors and AP options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems bizarre to me that there isn't tracking. Some kids really care about doing well in school -- they are competitive with the other students when it comes to grades. Other kids don't care. They'd rather be doing pretty much anything else than studying (which, granted, is not that fun). It seems weird to me that you would have all these kids in the same class -- not good for the kids, regardless of their opinion of studying, and a nightmare for the teacher.

There. Is. Tracking.

Not in ES. Not at Deal. But at other MSs they are doing it. At HS there are multiple levels, with grade level, honors and AP options.

So SH and some high schools? Wilson is “honors for all,” so it doesn’t do any tracking til 11th grade.

Too little, too late. Many students who would benefit from tracking moved away in 3rd or 4th grade.