Shaw Middle School Community Meeting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shaw parents need to look at what has happened at Hardy.

Several years ago people said it was awful, there was leadership changes and turmoil.

Now because of a number of factors, most students in its feeder pattern are going on to Hardy, and lo and behold, the test scores are up, the complaints are down and it's almost impossible for people to get in from OOB.

The school didn't really change. THere's a new principal, but the faculty is the same.

Please let's not be overly simplistic in comparing these two. From my understanding CH was super gentrified for years - decades? - before this. Anyone want to comment on the why/how this happened? Because Shaw is really only newly rich and still most of the area around there is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what bespoke middle school means. It currently says Shaw Junior High on the building. This is such a strange discussion.

NP. Bespoke means custom. PP is suggesting that Shaw parents think they have the right to demand exactly what they want without respect to the needs of the entire school system, and ignoring the fact that you have a school waiting for you that everyone assumes is unsatisfactory (Cardozo MS), without ever meeting a single administrator or teacher at that school.

Are you trying to say that Cardozo Middle is satisfactory? Good luck. I do know people who work there, and I know that they have churned through Assistant Principals at an alarming rate. Ask yourself why so few students attend who are not in the International Academy. It isn't just DCUM who finds it unsatisfactory. It's pretty much everyone.

And if all of you went there it would almost immediately change. Schools are about the students who attend them. If your 5 yo and all their classmates go, it will be a radically different place.

So what? They won't. How about DCPS deal with the actual problems? It needs a permanent leader and the academic and behavior problems of the kids need to be adequately remediated. For their own sake and not to attract gentrifiers.

Downtown evidently does not give a cr*p about Cardozo Middle. Until they do, what hope is there?

+1. It really angers me when people.blame parents for not sending their children to a seriously underperforming school amd say it is because of avoiding minority kids. The adults who work for DCPS are the problem here. I don't want my child to be treated the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students. The end.

If that is what you believe, then it doesn't matter whether DCPS creates a Shaw Middle or not. Creating Shaw Middle isn't going to change "the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students." If, at the end of the day, you will be sending your kids to charter or private, or moving, then you really have no dog in this fight.

I completely understand and am fine with people admitting they prefer the Charter/Private options. I don't like the implication that the creation of Shaw middle will alleviate all of their fears and they will suddenly go DCPS. Are you seriously telling me that you would take a school, with zero reputation, zero test scores, zero observations and commit to going there over the Charter/Private/Moving options? Unless you know there is guaranteed to be a strong cohort of children you know your child will "fit in" with, you will not send your kid to that school. Whether it is Shaw or Cardozo doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what bespoke middle school means. It currently says Shaw Junior High on the building. This is such a strange discussion.

NP. Bespoke means custom. PP is suggesting that Shaw parents think they have the right to demand exactly what they want without respect to the needs of the entire school system, and ignoring the fact that you have a school waiting for you that everyone assumes is unsatisfactory (Cardozo MS), without ever meeting a single administrator or teacher at that school.

Are you trying to say that Cardozo Middle is satisfactory? Good luck. I do know people who work there, and I know that they have churned through Assistant Principals at an alarming rate. Ask yourself why so few students attend who are not in the International Academy. It isn't just DCUM who finds it unsatisfactory. It's pretty much everyone.

And if all of you went there it would almost immediately change. Schools are about the students who attend them. If your 5 yo and all their classmates go, it will be a radically different place.

So what? They won't. How about DCPS deal with the actual problems? It needs a permanent leader and the academic and behavior problems of the kids need to be adequately remediated. For their own sake and not to attract gentrifiers.

Downtown evidently does not give a cr*p about Cardozo Middle. Until they do, what hope is there?

Totally agree. But I am not a Cardozo middle parent, and I suspect you aren't either. I am not willing to concede that DCPS is doing nothing, or that they don't care.

50% of the current school population are ELLs. 22% receive special education. 539 of the 788 enrolled there last year were at risk (families qualify for TANF and/or nutrition assistance, the students are foster children and/or homeless.

It clearly needs more significant resources and expertise than it is getting.

But also, only 39% of the students at Cardozo are IB. So what Cardozo is now, and what it might be when the ECE and lower elementary students are old enough for middle schools is unknowable.There's also no guarantee that a stand alone middle school wouldn't turn into another Cardozo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what bespoke middle school means. It currently says Shaw Junior High on the building. This is such a strange discussion.

NP. Bespoke means custom. PP is suggesting that Shaw parents think they have the right to demand exactly what they want without respect to the needs of the entire school system, and ignoring the fact that you have a school waiting for you that everyone assumes is unsatisfactory (Cardozo MS), without ever meeting a single administrator or teacher at that school.

Are you trying to say that Cardozo Middle is satisfactory? Good luck. I do know people who work there, and I know that they have churned through Assistant Principals at an alarming rate. Ask yourself why so few students attend who are not in the International Academy. It isn't just DCUM who finds it unsatisfactory. It's pretty much everyone.

And if all of you went there it would almost immediately change. Schools are about the students who attend them. If your 5 yo and all their classmates go, it will be a radically different place.

So what? They won't. How about DCPS deal with the actual problems? It needs a permanent leader and the academic and behavior problems of the kids need to be adequately remediated. For their own sake and not to attract gentrifiers.

Downtown evidently does not give a cr*p about Cardozo Middle. Until they do, what hope is there?

+1. It really angers me when people.blame parents for not sending their children to a seriously underperforming school amd say it is because of avoiding minority kids. The adults who work for DCPS are the problem here. I don't want my child to be treated the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students. The end.

If that is what you believe, then it doesn't matter whether DCPS creates a Shaw Middle or not. Creating Shaw Middle isn't going to change "the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students." If, at the end of the day, you will be sending your kids to charter or private, or moving, then you really have no dog in this fight.

I completely understand and am fine with people admitting they prefer the Charter/Private options. I don't like the implication that the creation of Shaw middle will alleviate all of their fears and they will suddenly go DCPS. Are you seriously telling me that you would take a school, with zero reputation, zero test scores, zero observations and commit to going there over the Charter/Private/Moving options? Unless you know there is guaranteed to be a strong cohort of children you know your child will "fit in" with, you will not send your kid to that school. Whether it is Shaw or Cardozo doesn't matter.

I think a freestanding middle school would get its own principal, rather than a rapid churn of APs. That is an important difference in my view. Running Cardozo high school is a full time job and it is a bad idea to stretch one principal across high school and middle schools. I am telling you that if DCPS gave Shaw Middle its own principal at that level on the payscale, it would make a difference to me. Can that happen in the Carodozo building? Maybe, but they have not implemented it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what bespoke middle school means. It currently says Shaw Junior High on the building. This is such a strange discussion.

NP. Bespoke means custom. PP is suggesting that Shaw parents think they have the right to demand exactly what they want without respect to the needs of the entire school system, and ignoring the fact that you have a school waiting for you that everyone assumes is unsatisfactory (Cardozo MS), without ever meeting a single administrator or teacher at that school.

Are you trying to say that Cardozo Middle is satisfactory? Good luck. I do know people who work there, and I know that they have churned through Assistant Principals at an alarming rate. Ask yourself why so few students attend who are not in the International Academy. It isn't just DCUM who finds it unsatisfactory. It's pretty much everyone.

And if all of you went there it would almost immediately change. Schools are about the students who attend them. If your 5 yo and all their classmates go, it will be a radically different place.

So what? They won't. How about DCPS deal with the actual problems? It needs a permanent leader and the academic and behavior problems of the kids need to be adequately remediated. For their own sake and not to attract gentrifiers.

Downtown evidently does not give a cr*p about Cardozo Middle. Until they do, what hope is there?

+1. It really angers me when people.blame parents for not sending their children to a seriously underperforming school amd say it is because of avoiding minority kids. The adults who work for DCPS are the problem here. I don't want my child to be treated the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students. The end.

If that is what you believe, then it doesn't matter whether DCPS creates a Shaw Middle or not. Creating Shaw Middle isn't going to change "the way DCPS treats most of its middle school students." If, at the end of the day, you will be sending your kids to charter or private, or moving, then you really have no dog in this fight.

I completely understand and am fine with people admitting they prefer the Charter/Private options. I don't like the implication that the creation of Shaw middle will alleviate all of their fears and they will suddenly go DCPS. Are you seriously telling me that you would take a school, with zero reputation, zero test scores, zero observations and commit to going there over the Charter/Private/Moving options? Unless you know there is guaranteed to be a strong cohort of children you know your child will "fit in" with, you will not send your kid to that school. Whether it is Shaw or Cardozo doesn't matter.

No, doofus. Nobody is saying it will immediately become income-diverse. People are saying that there are changes DCPS could make that would result in gradual improvement and better serve the kids who attend. But they won't. There is no plan. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I completely understand and am fine with people admitting they prefer the Charter/Private options. I don't like the implication that the creation of Shaw middle will alleviate all of their fears and they will suddenly go DCPS. Are you seriously telling me that you would take a school, with zero reputation, zero test scores, zero observations and commit to going there over the Charter/Private/Moving options? Unless you know there is guaranteed to be a strong cohort of children you know your child will "fit in" with, you will not send your kid to that school. Whether it is Shaw or Cardozo doesn't matter.

This is a great summary of why this non-Shaw parent is skeptical and worried about the costs (to the whole District including this taxpayer).

[Anonymous]

There is no plan because parents in that area either send their kid to Cardozo or completely vanish from the educational seen that area, and there is no middle ground. Anyone who believes that there is a middle ground is imagining things right now. It would be so nice if there was some other thing, but these are generally the people who won’t except anything except for stellar test scores for kids already at the school, regardless of all other inputs. There is no plan because DC PS already knows that none of you would send your kids to the school when it actually gets up and running and you see the facts on the ground so it’s be a waste of time. Cf Brooklyn’s MS and white parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no plan because parents in that area either send their kid to Cardozo or completely vanish from the educational seen that area, and there is no middle ground. Anyone who believes that there is a middle ground is imagining things right now. It would be so nice if there was some other thing, but these are generally the people who won’t except anything except for stellar test scores for kids already at the school, regardless of all other inputs. There is no plan because DC PS already knows that none of you would send your kids to the school when it actually gets up and running and you see the facts on the ground so it’s be a waste of time. Cf Brooklyn’s MS and white parents.

No. My point was there is no plan to improve the school's performance at serving the kids who are currently enrolled. Why is that too much to ask?

[Anonymous]

Brookland is a point of comparison but maybe not the best one. There are many HRCS in that area, really the highest concentration in the city. It seems like perhaps more could be learned from the Hill’s situation as a prior poster pointed out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cardozo is a viable option, it would just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school. The building has been modernized, the staff is there, etc. The test scores are lower, but comparatively (DC middle schools) are not horrendous, especially when you take into account the amount of English Language Learners. They have the space to take on more students.

I am not saying it doesn't have issues, but if the people here who are putting all this energy into fighting for a stand alone school would push that energy towards helping the school that is already ready and waiting for them, perhaps the school would become more appealing.

Instead, you end up looking like people trying to make, as someone else stated, a bespoke middle school that appeals to all of your requirements... which, from the outside looking in, seems to largely be based on the number of black and brown kids you want in your school.

Totally agree.

"just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school"

In other words DCPS has not the resources or the know-how to improve the school without changing the demographics. And that is a a big "just" by the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cardozo is a viable option, it would just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school. The building has been modernized, the staff is there, etc. The test scores are lower, but comparatively (DC middle schools) are not horrendous, especially when you take into account the amount of English Language Learners. They have the space to take on more students.

I am not saying it doesn't have issues, but if the people here who are putting all this energy into fighting for a stand alone school would push that energy towards helping the school that is already ready and waiting for them, perhaps the school would become more appealing.

Instead, you end up looking like people trying to make, as someone else stated, a bespoke middle school that appeals to all of your requirements... which, from the outside looking in, seems to largely be based on the number of black and brown kids you want in your school.

Totally agree.

"just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school"

In other words DCPS has not the resources or the know-how to improve the school without changing the demographics. And that is a a big "just" by the way.

Guess what. I know this is hard for you to take, but DCPS actually does not exist to serve you and all your desires specifically. You have to ask, and work. Does it suck that resources and organization don't magically appear? Sure. But why do you think you're ANY BETTER than ANYONE ELSE with kids in DCPS? Do the work, stop complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cardozo is a viable option, it would just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school. The building has been modernized, the staff is there, etc. The test scores are lower, but comparatively (DC middle schools) are not horrendous, especially when you take into account the amount of English Language Learners. They have the space to take on more students.

I am not saying it doesn't have issues, but if the people here who are putting all this energy into fighting for a stand alone school would push that energy towards helping the school that is already ready and waiting for them, perhaps the school would become more appealing.

Instead, you end up looking like people trying to make, as someone else stated, a bespoke middle school that appeals to all of your requirements... which, from the outside looking in, seems to largely be based on the number of black and brown kids you want in your school.

Totally agree.

"just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school"

In other words DCPS has not the resources or the know-how to improve the school without changing the demographics. And that is a a big "just" by the way.

Guess what. I know this is hard for you to take, but DCPS actually does not exist to serve you and all your desires specifically. You have to ask, and work. Does it suck that resources and organization don't magically appear? Sure. But why do you think you're ANY BETTER than ANYONE ELSE with kids in DCPS? Do the work, stop complaining.

How about if DCPS does the work to adequately serve the students who currently attend Cardozo Middle? Or can they only perform adequately if parents twist their arms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what bespoke middle school means. It currently says Shaw Junior High on the building. This is such a strange discussion.

NP. Bespoke means custom. PP is suggesting that Shaw parents think they have the right to demand exactly what they want without respect to the needs of the entire school system, and ignoring the fact that you have a school waiting for you that everyone assumes is unsatisfactory (Cardozo MS), without ever meeting a single administrator or teacher at that school.

Are you trying to say that Cardozo Middle is satisfactory? Good luck. I do know people who work there, and I know that they have churned through Assistant Principals at an alarming rate. Ask yourself why so few students attend who are not in the International Academy. It isn't just DCUM who finds it unsatisfactory. It's pretty much everyone.

And if all of you went there it would almost immediately change. Schools are about the students who attend them. If your 5 yo and all their classmates go, it will be a radically different place.

Are you new here? Do you really think this is how it works? Do you have any idea how long the community has been trying to improve the feeder schools? Change doesn't happen overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cardozo is a viable option, it would just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school. The building has been modernized, the staff is there, etc. The test scores are lower, but comparatively (DC middle schools) are not horrendous, especially when you take into account the amount of English Language Learners. They have the space to take on more students.

I am not saying it doesn't have issues, but if the people here who are putting all this energy into fighting for a stand alone school would push that energy towards helping the school that is already ready and waiting for them, perhaps the school would become more appealing.

Instead, you end up looking like people trying to make, as someone else stated, a bespoke middle school that appeals to all of your requirements... which, from the outside looking in, seems to largely be based on the number of black and brown kids you want in your school.

Totally agree.

"just take a cohort of people committed to going to the school"

In other words DCPS has not the resources or the know-how to improve the school without changing the demographics. And that is a a big "just" by the way.

Guess what. I know this is hard for you to take, but DCPS actually does not exist to serve you and all your desires specifically. You have to ask, and work. Does it suck that resources and organization don't magically appear? Sure. But why do you think you're ANY BETTER than ANYONE ELSE with kids in DCPS? Do the work, stop complaining.

You don't have to be so rude. Do you? Do what work exactly? The work it takes to convince all the middle class families to send their kids to Cardozo middle school? Or do the work to get DCPS to do better school planning?

[Anonymous]

Wasn't the middle school at Cardozo supposed to be a temporary thing ?