Norwood for student working several grade-leves ahead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a lot of people don't understand is that parents of pg kids don't generally want to "hyperaccelerate" them. They are naturally hyperaccelerated, regardless of what you do. It isn't uncommon for a pg 7 year old to be functioning at the level of a gifted 13 year old in all academic subjects. They didn't get there by being hothoused at home. They just "get it." There is a lot of stuff other kids need to learn that these kids just know intuitively or pick up without trying.

These kids don't need schools to "hyperaccelerate" them. They need them to teach them at a level appropriate to their intellectual ability and achievement levels, not their date of manufacture.

Maybe it's hard to understand if you haven't dealt with it. It's easy to think that a parent who lets their kid go to college at 8 has pushed them, unless you know that the kid has been ready to go to college since 6, and begging to start.

I've been both the kid and the parent in this scenario and wonder if, in some cases, people are talking past each other in this discussion when they use the term(s) (hyper)acceleration. The detractors (or, more precisely, the people who don't think it's the best or only approach) are using the term to talk about the pace that school sets. Their argument is that the fastest pace isn't the best approach for all h/pg kids. Some of the pro-acceleration posters seem to be using a similar definition. But the post I've quoted above sort of splits the difference -- suggests that the kid (not school, not parents) provides the accelerant, so to speak.

In reality, the question comes down to how you as a parent react to your kid's intellectual precocity and how/where do you channel it. Because while your kid may be smarter than you are, on some level, s/he is unlikely to have the range of experience, psychological insight, understanding of the world and how it works that you do. And s/he doesn't control where you live, how much money you make, how you spend it, etc. You could give the same kid to different parents and one set would have that kid in college by age 14, another set would have the kid in TJ or Blair, another in a Big 3, and another in DCPS (with or without lots of extracurriculars, depending on resources), another set might homeschool and the kid might spend hours alone in the garage inventing things, and, of course, some parents might not even notice or care if they do. So it's not the kid deciding -- even if it is the kid "accelerating" on some level.

A six year old may be able to do some aspects of work typically assigned in college, but it's a parent who casts that fact as the kid is quote "ready to go to college" rather than, say, the kid loves math and seems to be running out of the resources (school, family, library) that s/he needs to keep learning at this pace, so some special arrangement needs to be made.

What always strikes me about these conversations is what seems to me the absurdity of wanting to treat an exceptional 6 year old as an average 18 year old. That seems wrong on so many levels (the first is that PP's hypothetical assumes that the kid has an IQ of 300, LOL!).

[Anonymous]

PP, you "LOL" because it's hard for you to understand something so outside of your own experience, which quite clearly does not involve truly pg kids.

Yes, it would be absurd to treat a 6 year old like an average 18 year old. It would be equally absurd to treat a pg child who is functioning at the level of an advanced 18 year old like an average 6 year old.

The child in question was ready for college at the age of 6 according to whatever criteria the college in question used, including SAT scores, etc.

His parents didn't want him to go to college, he wanted to go to college. A lot of pg kids have what has been described as "a rage to learn." If you don't let them satisfy this, it can lead to emotional problems.

After the boy begged his parents for a couple of years to let him go to college, they finally let him.

He started college at 8 and graduated four years later at the top of his class with a perfect GPA. Double major. He took a year off and then entered one of the most prestigious graduate programs in the world, where he has excelled.

While he was an undergraduate, he had lots of time to goof off and play with his home schooled friends, more so than if he was in elementary school. His classes took up less time than a full day of school, and he was smart enough that he barely needed to study.

His choice has worked out well for him. He's a lovely person, happy and well-adjusted.

I don't know what the boy's IQ is, but ratio IQs haven't been used in a long time.

Is this still funny to you? I don't find it at all funny that people insist on misunderstanding this population and and even laugh at the notion of its existence. It's sad that it is often people who are themselves gifted or highly gifted who have the most trouble acknowledging that there might be brighter people whose needs are qualitatively different from their own.

[Anonymous]

Those of you who think that private schools can readily accommodate the brightest kids might want to call the Admissions Department of your favorite private school and ask them whether they have any reservations about candidates. LS or MS, not HS.

Let me reassert my belief that some hg+ kids do well in private school.

[Anonymous]

I meant to say applicants with IQs over 160.

[Anonymous]

Of course, they do. And some go in and out of schools for periods of socialization and activities like sailing (other sports) alone while gaining the bulk of intellectual stimulation at home and/or dual enrollment in community colleges. Some simply bypass the 4 hollow walls of our private and public schools at primary and secondary school level altogether en route to university and graduate schools.

[Anonymous]

It's the kid and family and not the school that matters in the long run.

The public versus private school debate is about whether pink or blue is one's favorite color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you "LOL" because it's hard for you to understand something so outside of your own experience, which quite clearly does not involve truly pg kids.

Yes, it would be absurd to treat a 6 year old like an average 18 year old. It would be equally absurd to treat a pg child who is functioning at the level of an advanced 18 year old like an average 6 year old.

The child in question was ready for college at the age of 6 according to whatever criteria the college in question used, including SAT scores, etc.

His parents didn't want him to go to college, he wanted to go to college. A lot of pg kids have what has been described as "a rage to learn." If you don't let them satisfy this, it can lead to emotional problems.

After the boy begged his parents for a couple of years to let him go to college, they finally let him.

He started college at 8 and graduated four years later at the top of his class with a perfect GPA. Double major. He took a year off and then entered one of the most prestigious graduate programs in the world, where he has excelled.

While he was an undergraduate, he had lots of time to goof off and play with his home schooled friends, more so than if he was in elementary school. His classes took up less time than a full day of school, and he was smart enough that he barely needed to study.

His choice has worked out well for him. He's a lovely person, happy and well-adjusted.

I don't know what the boy's IQ is, but ratio IQs haven't been used in a long time.

Is this still funny to you? I don't find it at all funny that people insist on misunderstanding this population and and even laugh at the notion of its existence. It's sad that it is often people who are themselves gifted or highly gifted who have the most trouble acknowledging that there might be brighter people whose needs are qualitatively different from their own.

This poster has alot of wisdon to share. I hope it's taken to heart.....

New poster here by the way...

[Anonymous]

Good luck reaching them. I agree with you; however, most posters on this forum are desparately shooting for admission to private schools ("big 3" variety in this neck of the woods) and admission into Ivy and other selective colleges. A cursory review of the bulk and volume of the threads confirm these things matter to this community. Joining an area D.C. network crowd of movers and shakers where sailing, rowing, lacrosse are important activities. It's not unlike what happens in Manhattan and Brooklyn Heights.

This crowd will have no experience with the types of children you descibe ... most of whom are not driven by Ivy, WPSSI, SAT scores -- bars they have scaled well before the high school years for most of these folk to allow them to chart their separate supplementary courses in the local universities.

And there are a number of hoverers, comfortable with generational wealth and resources, content to chortle, chuckle and yawn, surveying the scramble.

There are those who get it. Don't worry.

[SAM2]

It seems to me it will create confusion to start discussing the type of child prodigies who are starting college at age 8, and moving on to graduate schools at age 13. While I have nothing but respect for the children at Montgomery County's HGC, I'm pretty sure not many (any?) meet this profile. And I think there's a lot of airspace between an 8-year-old who attends college, and an 8-year-old who is working two grades above-level. Again, I have nothing but respect for either groups of children (the super-prodigies or the "merely" accelerated), but I think it's a fallacy to equate (or even analogize) their experiences.

[Anonymous]

You're quite correct. Perhaps it's wrong to assume this is an educated crowd that can put 2 and 2 together.

[Anonymous]

I do worry though, because I care about these kids, and it's sad when their families are stressed, and even ruined financially, because schools don't recognize their special needs. Most families can't afford for a parent to drop out of the workforce and home school, but the parents of these kids often have to or risk their kid's psychological well-being.

That's why I put up with all the negativity that this topic generates, both in the virtual world and irl.

Your kind words and those of new poster mean a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you "LOL" because it's hard for you to understand something so outside of your own experience, which quite clearly does not involve truly pg kids.

Yes, it would be absurd to treat a 6 year old like an average 18 year old. It would be equally absurd to treat a pg child who is functioning at the level of an advanced 18 year old like an average 6 year old.

The child in question was ready for college at the age of 6 according to whatever criteria the college in question used, including SAT scores, etc.

His parents didn't want him to go to college, he wanted to go to college. A lot of pg kids have what has been described as "a rage to learn." If you don't let them satisfy this, it can lead to emotional problems.

After the boy begged his parents for a couple of years to let him go to college, they finally let him.

He started college at 8 and graduated four years later at the top of his class with a perfect GPA. Double major. He took a year off and then entered one of the most prestigious graduate programs in the world, where he has excelled.

While he was an undergraduate, he had lots of time to goof off and play with his home schooled friends, more so than if he was in elementary school. His classes took up less time than a full day of school, and he was smart enough that he barely needed to study.

His choice has worked out well for him. He's a lovely person, happy and well-adjusted.

I don't know what the boy's IQ is, but ratio IQs haven't been used in a long time.

Is this still funny to you? I don't find it at all funny that people insist on misunderstanding this population and and even laugh at the notion of its existence. It's sad that it is often people who are themselves gifted or highly gifted who have the most trouble acknowledging that there might be brighter people whose needs are qualitatively different from their own.

I thought it was funny because I've taught college and, no matter how bright, a 6 year old is not "ready" for college. It's a real waste of college for a profoundly gifted kid to end up at a school where he can get straight A's without studying. College can and should challenge even the brightest people on so many levels and, if it doesn't, one of the most intellectually stimulating experiences a person can have has been lost. Success in a prestigious grad school doesn't eliminate that loss -- it just means that a child narrowed his field of vision at an age where he wasn't sufficiently experienced to explore alternatives.

If your goal is to help a profoundly gifted kid realize his/her intellectual potential, this strikes me as a really screwed up way of going about it.

[Anonymous]

SAM2, the OP said that her child is functioning "several grade levels" beyond her peers. This could mean three years or ten years. Generally speaking, "several" is not the term used to signify 1, 2 or even 3.

Kids functioning two years ahead of their peers should certainly not have in problems adapting to local schools, public or private.

Kids functioning 10 years ahead of their peers are another story.

There's a world of difference.

Since you are interested in gifted issues, you might be interested in the idea of "optimal intelligence," which in the past has been described as 120-145, or something like that. Life gets tricky for a lot of kids, although not all, when they are a couple of standard deviations beyond that.

I'm not fetishizing the numbers, I am using them as stand ins for the more complex differences that they are often associated with.

[Anonymous]

I thought this might be an interesting addition to the current tone of this thread. The link details experiences of gifted kids and their families trying to meet their needs.....sad but true...

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/ridiculous_things.htm

[Anonymous]

I am not a fan of labels(e.g., hg, pg, superpg). Labels need definitions which not everyone agrees on. I prefer to describe the situation. It seems common sense for a few children described here that neither private nor public schools are a good fit and schools (public or private) are not one-size fits all as boosters around here cackle and chirp. Most children will survive in private or public schools. Kids are tougher than adults. The school flavor a family decides on depends on where they live, their resources and whether the school gives the child admission. I personally don't believe the school makes the student...in my own world of experience far more often than not, students make the school (whether private, public or home). Today, schools need the students. It's not the other way around. I don't care whether you are talking about STA or Blair Magnet. Students make the school. Yes, many schools do not meet or satisfy the intellectual needs or wants of all students hence families and students supplement their education. Some families are more proactive in this arena as we have all read about. I suspect precocious, passionate and more driven students will engage in more outside enrichment, supplementation and acceleration to bridge gaps. In my life experience and observation, children of higher socioeconomic family standing (regardless of their aptitude) are more involved in supplementing and enriching their childs educational experience (regardless of whether their children are attending private or public school). Motivation aside, these families have the discretionary resources to do so. On the other hand, children from much less wealth and discretionary income can compensate by abiding strong emotional family support, focus, discipline and drive. For some of these students, without discretionary income or leisure time for violin and piano lessons, sailing and club lacrosse, seem fine with work-study arrangements and channeling their energies towards academic achievement in anticipation of access to a sliver of the economic pie for their own future children. This choice make sense to me. I have witnessed happiness and success on both sides of this coin.