Is there a difference between Columbia,Penn and Dartmouth,Brown,Cornell ?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In 2017...

Penn is obnoxious Jewish and Asian kids who will knife you to get ahead. Dartmouth is conservative prep schoolers. Brown is liberal prep schools & Hollywood kids.

Didn't you already post this drivel? Move along.

DP but PP nailed the perception of those schools. Add suburban kids pretending to be miserable urban hipsters for Columbia, and the leftovers for Cornell, and you've got the non-HYP Ivies.

Not the same person, but the above assessment is not accurate. A ton of elite prep schoolers head to Penn and Columbia every year, more than Brown and Dartmouth. For example, here are the 2017 matriculation #s for Andover: Penn: 8, Columbia: 8, Brown: 6, Dartmouth: 3.

again , penn is 2-3x the size of brown and dartmouth.

Huh? What does that have to do with the number of students who choose to matriculate? If Brown and Dartmouth were the ultimate destinations for prep-school kids then a huge number of Andover and similar kids would be willing to matriculate there.

Clearly a lot of obnoxious Jewish and Asian parents enroll their obnoxious kids in prep schools now.

Mystery solved.

you keep posting about jewish and asian cutthroat strivers at Penn......get a couple of new lines and a life while you're at it.

PP wasn't my post. Would your Wharton-addled brain explode to learn there are multiple posters with similar impressions of Penn?

[Anonymous]

If anything, this thread reinforces the stereotype of Penn as full of status-obsessed strivers who harbor significant insecurity about not going to Harvard or Princeton.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Columbia and UPenn tend to rank higher in most rankings and have stronger departments, which is why your GC might be saying that. But does this mean they are better (what does that even mean?) or more prestigious colleges? Hardly.
The ONLY objective difference in prestige is between H vs the rest and HYP vs non-HYP. Parsing any further differences among the lower ivies is just a desperate attempt by certain insecure boosters to elevate their school.

Anonymous wrote:Penn A&S (and Penn in general) has stronger departments and more renowned faculty than Brown and Dartmouth.

Anonymous wrote:
Penn A&S (and Penn in general) has stronger departments and more renowned faculty than Brown and Dartmouth.

Anonymous wrote:In any case, Penn performs better in practically every ranking out there, it has overall stronger departments, more renowned faculty, stronger research output, higher RD yield rate, and according to the CDS documents Penn admits have a bit higher SATs/ACTs and GPAs/ranks than Brown and Dartmouth admits.

Anonymous wrote:Hardly. Penn has much stronger departments than Brown and Dartmouth even outside of Wharton. I agree about lay prestige though, all non-HYP ivies are similar.

Hey, Penn "stronger departments" person, please give it a rest. I've worked in higher ed for almost 20 years, and "stronger departments" is a meaningless designation that I have literally never heard anyone in academe ever utter at any point. One of the non-Penn schools in this thread has the country's top-ranked programs in Comparative Literature and Brazilian Studies. So for kids interested in those areas, Penn does not have "stronger departments." The same is true for other schools in other fields.

We get it. You love Penn. Also, "Brown is the hottest university in the country" person, we get it - you love trolling people by getting them worked up about Brown.

NP. Penn is still higher ranked in the public eye, and it’s on more US and international rankings, than Brown or Dartmouth. Whatever you think of deoaetmentsnon a case-by-case basis, these rankings generally go for broader academic gestalt. I can’t believe we’re still discussing this.

News flash for the Penn booster.... there is no one "public eye". And lets be honest here, most of the public doesn't know the difference between UPenn and Penn State.

Shall we call you the Penn Basher? Or are you the “Brown is so hot” booster or a Dartmouth booster? You seem fairly blinkered yourself.

I have degrees from HYP so no dog in this fight, just calling it the way I see it. So where did you get your graduate/law/medical degree Penn Booster?

A different Ivy. I’m just another observer who thinks your monomaniacal Penn hate has cost you all credibility here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2017...

Penn is obnoxious Jewish and Asian kids who will knife you to get ahead. Dartmouth is conservative prep schoolers. Brown is liberal prep schools & Hollywood kids.

Didn't you already post this drivel? Move along.

DP but PP nailed the perception of those schools. Add suburban kids pretending to be miserable urban hipsters for Columbia, and the leftovers for Cornell, and you've got the non-HYP Ivies.

Not the same person, but the above assessment is not accurate. A ton of elite prep schoolers head to Penn and Columbia every year, more than Brown and Dartmouth. For example, here are the 2017 matriculation #s for Andover: Penn: 8, Columbia: 8, Brown: 6, Dartmouth: 3.

again , penn is 2-3x the size of brown and dartmouth.

Huh? What does that have to do with the number of students who choose to matriculate? If Brown and Dartmouth were the ultimate destinations for prep-school kids then a huge number of Andover and similar kids would be willing to matriculate there.

Clearly a lot of obnoxious Jewish and Asian parents enroll their obnoxious kids in prep schools now.

Mystery solved.

you keep posting about jewish and asian cutthroat strivers at Penn......get a couple of new lines and a life while you're at it.

PP wasn't my post. Would your Wharton-addled brain explode to learn there are multiple posters with similar impressions of Penn?

Pretty sure any Asian or Jew here would object to that bigotted post, whether or not they went to Wharton. Why do you let your ridiculous and obsessive hatred for Penn cause you to endorse bigotted stereotypes about “cutthroat strivers”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 2017...

Penn is obnoxious Jewish and Asian kids who will knife you to get ahead. Dartmouth is conservative prep schoolers. Brown is liberal prep schools & Hollywood kids.

Didn't you already post this drivel? Move along.

DP but PP nailed the perception of those schools. Add suburban kids pretending to be miserable urban hipsters for Columbia, and the leftovers for Cornell, and you've got the non-HYP Ivies.

Not the same person, but the above assessment is not accurate. A ton of elite prep schoolers head to Penn and Columbia every year, more than Brown and Dartmouth. For example, here are the 2017 matriculation #s for Andover: Penn: 8, Columbia: 8, Brown: 6, Dartmouth: 3.

again , penn is 2-3x the size of brown and dartmouth.

Huh? What does that have to do with the number of students who choose to matriculate? If Brown and Dartmouth were the ultimate destinations for prep-school kids then a huge number of Andover and similar kids would be willing to matriculate there.

Clearly a lot of obnoxious Jewish and Asian parents enroll their obnoxious kids in prep schools now.

Mystery solved.

you keep posting about jewish and asian cutthroat strivers at Penn......get a couple of new lines and a life while you're at it.

PP wasn't my post. Would your Wharton-addled brain explode to learn there are multiple posters with similar impressions of Penn?

Pretty sure any Asian or Jew here would object to that bigotted post, whether or not they went to Wharton. Why do you let your ridiculous and obsessive hatred for Penn cause you to endorse bigotted stereotypes about “cutthroat strivers”?

+1 And the PP is obviously an insanely insecure, bigoted loser with way too much time on her hands.

[Anonymous]

Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

Lol. These words are loaded and the PP knows it which is why she uses them ad nauseam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If anything, this thread reinforces the stereotype of Penn as full of status-obsessed strivers who harbor significant insecurity about not going to Harvard or Princeton.

Hate to break it to you but this is the entire ivy league. Yale and Princeton are full of strivers who deep down are insecure that didn't make it to Harvard. non-HYP ivies are full of strivers who are insecure about not making it to HYP. Cornell is full of strivers who didn't make it to an other ivy. This is how it goes.

[Anonymous]

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NP. Penn is still higher ranked in the public eye, and it’s on more US and international rankings, than Brown or Dartmouth. Whatever you think of deoaetmentsnon a case-by-case basis, these rankings generally go for broader academic gestalt. I can’t believe we’re still discussing this.

News flash for the Penn booster.... there is no one "public eye". And lets be honest here, most of the public doesn't know the difference between UPenn and Penn State.
I have degrees from HYP so no dog in this fight, just calling it the way I see it.

When it comes to lay prestige, Harvard is the one ivy everybody recognizes, with Yale and Princeton being distant seconds. The uneducated and semi-educated masses do not know any of the other 5 ivies and know Penn State for college football. But why does that matter? People in sophisticated circles recognize Penn and the other non-HYP ivies and also recognize that Penn is a stronger school than Brown and Dartmouth, as shown by the myriad of different types of rankings out there, yield rates, cross-admit splits, endowments, fundraising etc. I think by "public eye" the PP meant the educated people, not the unwashed masses.

Btw not being able to distinguish between Penn and Penn State or name the non-HYP ivies, says more about that person than it does about the schools.
This is actually a very good test for gauging how sophisticated someone is. The first step would be for them to know the difference between Penn and Penn State. The second would be to know than it is Penn and not UPenn. All of my HYP acquaintances pass both tests...

Once again, this is entirely subjective and not backed by any verifiable evidence that can prove one school is "better" than the other. For example, where are your cross-admits splits?

I grew up in academic circles. My father was a college professor at a major university. Many of my classmates at school were also children of faculty and university administrators. Many more were children of the professions. In our circle Brown and Dartmouth were seen as more impressive than Penn outside Wharton - for undergraduates, because of the larger undergraduate focus of these universities relative to the larger Penn environment. I do remember a few discussions when it was said to go to Penn for grad school so there was recognition on that level. This is strictly in comparing Penn to the other Ivies for on the whole it is certainly an excellent university.

In the "sophisticated" circles you refer to, Harvard, followed by Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT are the schools that make people pause and nod. The rest of the Ivies, including Penn, are fine schools but no one is perceived "better" than the other.

Kid, Penn is a fine school. It really is. I'm sure you were happy there. But the college rankings game is so meaningless that it's shallow to keep crying about Penn being better than Dartmouth. It's making a big deal between a 98.5 and a 98.7 and obscures so many factors that are meaningless for undergraduates or graduates, depending on their divisions. What impact does it have on the typical Penn student that there's a law school, compared to a typical Dartmouth student because Dartmouth doesn't have a law school? Penn has a good philosophy department but someone aiming for a philosophy PhD would pick Pittsburgh over Penn because that is one of the most impressive philosophy faculty in the world. Penn has a great city planning program in the school of design, but its career placement is no better than many state universities because most city planners go work for local cities and municipalities, so you're spending a fortune on a MCP that won't get you a higher salary or better jobs than a graduate from Rutger's city planning program. As a holder of two ivy diplomas, ivy degrees are like having a luxury car. It's nice to have one, there's a brand to it, but it's always silly to argue whether Mercedes is better than Audi, and last but not least, it really doesn't do the job any better than an ordinary Honda or Toyota.

Better is a subjective term on its own. No one can say one ivy is better than the other with no further qualification. But what you can say is that Penn is a stronger school across the board for most disciplines. This is not subjective, this is a fact. In 99% of all available rankings out there whether it is college or research ranking, national or international, Penn does better than both Brown and Dartmouth. You can't just be dismissive of every ranking out there. HYPSM in general rank on top of most college rankings for a reason. Harvard, Stanford and MIT rank at the top of most research-focused ranking for a good reason. When looking at the aggregate level it is not random.

Re: cross admits. There are no 100% accurate data, although the parchment data in general get the dynamic right between peer schools. RD yields also tell a similar story.
Re: law school. You can take law school courses as a Penn undergrad and you can even sub-matriculate into Penn Law and do a BA/JD. Could make a big difference if considering law school.
Re: Pitt. yes but highly doubt that top faculty at Pitt take the time to teach undergrads or use them in their research. At Penn they do.

Re: "sophisticated circles". I guess that varies a lot but in my immediate circles Brown and Dartmouth are seen as the easier, weaker ivies and are seen as less prestigious than Columbia and Penn. I agree people are most impressed only by HYPSM though.

I dont think anyone is saying "oh choose Penn or Columbia, if you choose Brown or Dartmouth you are really downgrading and you won't have opportunities." Ppl are just pointing out some objective ways in which these schools are stronger. i guess the smaller more intimate environment and undergrad focus are ways the other two are stronger.

Well, I'm happy for you that you care so much to keep posting claims about Penn. It's nice to have loyalty to your university. But you're still ignoring many things others have pointed out about your claims. Your views on prestige is still subjective and not verified as it's impossible. There are a million and one factors that goes into a great undergraduate experience and Penn has no monopoly on the "better" in the lion's share as what's important to one student is not to another. As long as the school is above a certain threshold of quality, and Penn certainly is, just as Brown and Dartmouth also are, it's irrelevant who's better or who's stronger. It's only when you jump to the next level up as represented by HYPSM, that you can start seeing something, in terms of resources and even student body quality, that can justifiably be claimed as slightly better.

Someday you will be slightly older. And you will understand why it's meaningless.

You are completely ignoring what I am said and twisting my words. Who said Penn has a monopoly on a better undergraduate experience? What does better even mean? I simply said that objectively Penn is a school with stronger departments and more high-profile faculty than Brown and Dartmouth. Also it has been ranked higher in practically every ranking out there for quite some time now. Again this is not controversial, it is a fact.

What is controversial, is saying that having stronger departments makes absolutely no difference. I can think many practical ways in which it does for Penn, as I described above. Again I am NOT saying that everyone should be choosing Penn over Brown or Dartmouth just because of the stronger departments, the higher-profile faculty , more research opportunities etc. There are perfectly good reasons to go for Dartmouth and Brown. But all the strength factor affects into student choices as well. There is a reason most cross admits choose Penn and Columbia over Brown and Dartmouth these days and both schools have had higher RD yields for some time now. I don't think this is a total coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

Penn’s rep is well known. Some types want that, others are repelled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anything, this thread reinforces the stereotype of Penn as full of status-obsessed strivers who harbor significant insecurity about not going to Harvard or Princeton.

Hate to break it to you but this is the entire ivy league. Yale and Princeton are full of strivers who deep down are insecure that didn't make it to Harvard. non-HYP ivies are full of strivers who are insecure about not making it to HYP. Cornell is full of strivers who didn't make it to an other ivy. This is how it goes.

Not everybody is an insecure simpleton who only cares about rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

Because indulging stereotypes of Jews and Asians as “cutthroat strivers” is really cool and great at Chicago? Doubt it very much. At Columbia we’d call you a bigot.

Clearly the people insulting you—and my posts weren’t the worst—have gotten under your skin. As they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

Penn’s rep is well known. Some types want that, others are repelled.

I'm still reeling from the poster who used the word "bigotted." Penn failed to teach her how to spell, and apparently she's eaten too many cheesesteaks to reach out and avail of spell-check. Sad!