Superintendent's Recommendation for Richard Montgomery ES #5 Boundaries

[Anonymous]

The outcome for ES#5 with high FARM rate is non-poor kids family will gradually moving out the community, this is already start happening..

then there will be more poor kids in this school, which will eventually hit JW and RM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think what PPs are stating is that kids in the higher farms school will have a subpar education and not as ready for MS/HS compared to the other kids. By MS/HS it will be too late or that much more difficult for these kids to catch up, thus affecting the test scores (and ratings) of the MS/HS.

What is the cut off for FOCUS school to receive additional aid? Does ES#5 and Twinbrook still qualify as focus?

Also, this is just the Supe's recommendation. How likely is it that the BOE will 100% agree? Are they just rubber stampers? They are taking parental input, but is it just for show?

The likeliest outcome is that the non-poor kids at the higher-FARMS schools will be just fine. The question is therefore only whether poor kids who are currently zoned for low-FARMS schools (i.e., not Twinbrook) will do worse when zoned for a high-FARMS school. And statistically the answer to this question is probably yes, unfortunately -- but it seems unlikely to me that there are enough poor kids who will do enough worse to bring down the average scores and environment of JW MS and RM HS as a whole.

In other words, worry about the effect on individual kids, not on JW and RM overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think what PPs are stating is that kids in the higher farms school will have a subpar education and not as ready for MS/HS compared to the other kids. By MS/HS it will be too late or that much more difficult for these kids to catch up, thus affecting the test scores (and ratings) of the MS/HS.

What is the cut off for FOCUS school to receive additional aid? Does ES#5 and Twinbrook still qualify as focus?

Also, this is just the Supe's recommendation. How likely is it that the BOE will 100% agree? Are they just rubber stampers? They are taking parental input, but is it just for show?

The likeliest outcome is that the non-poor kids at the higher-FARMS schools will be just fine. The question is therefore only whether poor kids who are currently zoned for low-FARMS schools (i.e., not Twinbrook) will do worse when zoned for a high-FARMS school. And statistically the answer to this question is probably yes, unfortunately -- but it seems unlikely to me that there are enough poor kids who will do enough worse to bring down the average scores and environment of JW MS and RM HS as a whole.

In other words, worry about the effect on individual kids, not on JW and RM overall.

Ignoring everything else in this post and just focusing on bold part - if we agree with the bold part then why push a disadvantage group to do even worse? Are we trying to bridge achievement gap or widening the achievement gap with this proposed boundary?

Now coming back to the main point, when every other student is a farm student, even non-farm performance will go down. Teachers have to drastically slow down and entire focus goes on bringing everyone at minimum level. This problem exist even with 25% farm rate, but a lot more manageable than 53% farm rate. Some time extra resource is thrown at schools to help, but we all know that those resources are not enough.

We all should be asking a question here. Why should we knowingly create a situation which doesn't provide the best possible opportunity to all students in this cluster. Sure, it may not be possible to create a perfect distribution of farm kids and no one is asking for that, but how come Superintended is suggesting a even worse option that options debated in the last 6-8 months? He is even pointing out in summary that farm rate is going down in Beall and RP. That would be funny if it was not a serious topic. You don't claim that you re reducing farm rate in other schools when all you are doing is to move all those kids in one bucket.

Since, farm and non-farm, both sets are likely to do worse as a group , JW and RM will be impacted.

[Anonymous]

totally agree with above post, the ultimate goal is to have a plan to help all the kids achieve their best potential, instead of widening the gap.


you don't have to look far to see the effect of having two low performing ES in the cluster.

Rockville high school cluster is a great example,

3 of there ES achieve good performance: Rock Creek Valley ES, Lucy V. Barnsley ES; Flower Valley ES

2 of it ES are not: Maryvale ES; Meadow Hall

[Anonymous]

Here is one relevant to MCPS.

https://tcf.org/assets/downloads/tcf-Schwartz.pdf

If anyone doesn't want to read the entire report then here is the message - A kid from a poor family will do better at a low-poverty school than at a high-poverty school

Not giving the best opportunity to those kids means, we are simply widening the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The outcome for ES#5 with high FARM rate is non-poor kids family will gradually moving out the community, this is already start happening..

then there will be more poor kids in this school, which will eventually hit JW and RM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think what PPs are stating is that kids in the higher farms school will have a subpar education and not as ready for MS/HS compared to the other kids. By MS/HS it will be too late or that much more difficult for these kids to catch up, thus affecting the test scores (and ratings) of the MS/HS.

What is the cut off for FOCUS school to receive additional aid? Does ES#5 and Twinbrook still qualify as focus?

Also, this is just the Supe's recommendation. How likely is it that the BOE will 100% agree? Are they just rubber stampers? They are taking parental input, but is it just for show?

The likeliest outcome is that the non-poor kids at the higher-FARMS schools will be just fine. The question is therefore only whether poor kids who are currently zoned for low-FARMS schools (i.e., not Twinbrook) will do worse when zoned for a high-FARMS school. And statistically the answer to this question is probably yes, unfortunately -- but it seems unlikely to me that there are enough poor kids who will do enough worse to bring down the average scores and environment of JW MS and RM HS as a whole.

In other words, worry about the effect on individual kids, not on JW and RM overall.

Not true! The neighborhood surrounding the school is increasing in SES. We just bought and moved in 2 years ago. The new families moving in are well-educated professionals. Please stop spouting BS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The outcome for ES#5 with high FARM rate is non-poor kids family will gradually moving out the community, this is already start happening..

then there will be more poor kids in this school, which will eventually hit JW and RM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think what PPs are stating is that kids in the higher farms school will have a subpar education and not as ready for MS/HS compared to the other kids. By MS/HS it will be too late or that much more difficult for these kids to catch up, thus affecting the test scores (and ratings) of the MS/HS.

What is the cut off for FOCUS school to receive additional aid? Does ES#5 and Twinbrook still qualify as focus?

Also, this is just the Supe's recommendation. How likely is it that the BOE will 100% agree? Are they just rubber stampers? They are taking parental input, but is it just for show?

The likeliest outcome is that the non-poor kids at the higher-FARMS schools will be just fine. The question is therefore only whether poor kids who are currently zoned for low-FARMS schools (i.e., not Twinbrook) will do worse when zoned for a high-FARMS school. And statistically the answer to this question is probably yes, unfortunately -- but it seems unlikely to me that there are enough poor kids who will do enough worse to bring down the average scores and environment of JW MS and RM HS as a whole.

In other words, worry about the effect on individual kids, not on JW and RM overall.

Not true! The neighborhood surrounding the school is increasing in SES. We just bought and moved in 2 years ago. The new families moving in are well-educated professionals. Please stop spouting BS!

To rephrase... it is not true that non-poor families are moving out of the area. Quite the opposite. The issue is that the poverty is concentrated in subsections and apartment complexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not true! The neighborhood surrounding the school is increasing in SES. We just bought and moved in 2 years ago. The new families moving in are well-educated professionals.

I am not the poster, but you moved in Beall with 25% farm rate. Same is true for new families you saw moving in the last 1-2 years. Discussion is about RM#5 . Two different situations. Let's see how many high SES families move to a RM#5 in future if school starts with a high farm rate.


You are comparing previous buying trend from what's coming up. Twinbrook has a high farm rate despite being so close to metro it's not changing anytime soon. Reason is simple, high SES families avoid Twinbrook otherwise it should have changed with proximity to metro.

[Anonymous]

you bought your house two years ago when kids are going to Beall, which is a well performed school.


What we are talking about here is if the new school becomes under performed (most likely with 53% FARM rate), are those well educated professionals still be interested in moving in?

Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..


Again the point is we are all on same boat of the RM cluster, there is no point to perfect a couple of individual chambers while letting the boat sinking..

we should all work together for creating a better ES#5, it is really for the best interest of everybody.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The outcome for ES#5 with high FARM rate is non-poor kids family will gradually moving out the community, this is already start happening..

then there will be more poor kids in this school, which will eventually hit JW and RM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think what PPs are stating is that kids in the higher farms school will have a subpar education and not as ready for MS/HS compared to the other kids. By MS/HS it will be too late or that much more difficult for these kids to catch up, thus affecting the test scores (and ratings) of the MS/HS.

What is the cut off for FOCUS school to receive additional aid? Does ES#5 and Twinbrook still qualify as focus?

Also, this is just the Supe's recommendation. How likely is it that the BOE will 100% agree? Are they just rubber stampers? They are taking parental input, but is it just for show?

The likeliest outcome is that the non-poor kids at the higher-FARMS schools will be just fine. The question is therefore only whether poor kids who are currently zoned for low-FARMS schools (i.e., not Twinbrook) will do worse when zoned for a high-FARMS school. And statistically the answer to this question is probably yes, unfortunately -- but it seems unlikely to me that there are enough poor kids who will do enough worse to bring down the average scores and environment of JW MS and RM HS as a whole.

In other words, worry about the effect on individual kids, not on JW and RM overall.

Not true! The neighborhood surrounding the school is increasing in SES. We just bought and moved in 2 years ago. The new families moving in are well-educated professionals. Please stop spouting BS!

To rephrase... it is not true that non-poor families are moving out of the area. Quite the opposite. The issue is that the poverty is concentrated in subsections and apartment complexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..

This is a specious correlation. Houses that went on the market this week would have been preparing for sale before the recommendation came out, not decided to sell and be listed within 2-3 days.

[Anonymous]

well, the 8 options went out earlier this year, that already made some people thinking, now the recommendation is even worse than any of those options...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..

This is a specious correlation. Houses that went on the market this week would have been preparing for sale before the recommendation came out, not decided to sell and be listed within 2-3 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..

This is a specious correlation. Houses that went on the market this week would have been preparing for sale before the recommendation came out, not decided to sell and be listed within 2-3 days.

You are right here. I don't think that anyone will put house on market within days of recommendations. I do think that all discussions taking place in the last 4-6 months had total 8 options, and RM#5 was high on farm rate in all options. There were lots of concerned parents in meetings. Some folks may have decided to move, but that's just an speculation.

Now recommended option has a even higher farm rate. If it goes through then it won't be surprising to see people moving out as long as they can afford it. Anyway, focus should be to create a balanced school. People move in and out for various reasons.

[Anonymous]

Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..

Which neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Just look at the sudden increase of the number of house on sale in the nearby neighborhood after the recommendation is out..

Which neighborhood?

Hungerford, presumably.

[Anonymous]

RM cluster has been successfully because the current three schools are balanced, even it means some area were bused further, it is a route proven to work.

so we should follow those steps and also make ES#5 more balanced. Hollowing out the well educated professionals from ES#5 community will have big negative impact on the RM cluster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:totally agree with above post, the ultimate goal is to have a plan to help all the kids achieve their best potential, instead of widening the gap.


you don't have to look far to see the effect of having two low performing ES in the cluster.

Rockville high school cluster is a great example,

3 of there ES achieve good performance: Rock Creek Valley ES, Lucy V. Barnsley ES; Flower Valley ES

2 of it ES are not: Maryvale ES; Meadow Hall

So what do you say has been the impact to Rockville HS as a result of having 2 ES that are high FARMS?