Two paths to magnet program at Richard Montgomery High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP, here. I also have a DC in a magnet program (not RM) but she has two friends at RM in 11th grade. One has expressed frustration at the fairness of letting non-magnet students join the program junior year. And I can understand that from the applicant's perspective. But she also said the regular students who join are highly motivated and capable and in no way change the character of the classes. I don't think the PP's comment is snide, it gets at the crux of the issue. It isn't fair that there's a back door to the program, but it is just. Surely the students who entered in 9th grade receive something in those two years that reward their effort and it would be wrong if local students who've also worked hard are locked out of the advanced classes at their own school. As a parent I'd like to believe I have a broader perspective than a HS student. I'll praise the student who gets into the magnet but I don't want anyone's fate sealed in 8th grade. And this isn't the last time our kids will see this, plenty of students don't step up until college or grad school and that doesn't say anything about their worth.

Anyway, what do you hope to accomplish with this anonymous screed a couple days before the open house? Hopefully DCUM posts don't really sway anyone, but if they do, the likely outcome is you just scare off some desirable out-of-boundary applicants leaving more room for local kids to go in the front door.

This. If I didn't already know that DCUM is -- at best!! -- a fun-house-mirror reflection of reality, and my kid were thinking of applying, and I were reading this thread, I might say, "Oh my goodness, no, don't apply to that program, the parents are completely wack."

[Anonymous]

can RMIB keep a portion of the seats for home school applicants only like the middle school magnet programs?

[Anonymous]

More schools need to adopt this policy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The integrity of the magnet cohort" must be a fragile thing, if it can be destroyed by having non-magnet students in their classes.

Do you have a magnet student? Do you understand what a magnet cohort means? Are you suggesting we should abolish magnet programs in MCPS? Snide remarks prohibits us from having an educated discussions.

Yes, I have a kid in a magnet program. Yes, I understand what a magnet cohort means. The kids in my kid's magnet program take academic classes with kids in the comprehensive program. Nothing bad has happened yet.

You are suggesting that Richard Montgomery have separate IB classes for kids in the comprehensive program and in the magnet program. That's absurd.

NP, here. I also have a DC in a magnet program (not RM) but she has two friends at RM in 11th grade. One has expressed frustration at the fairness of letting non-magnet students join the program junior year. And I can understand that from the applicant's perspective. But she also said the regular students who join are highly motivated and capable and in no way change the character of the classes. I don't think the PP's comment is snide, it gets at the crux of the issue. It isn't fair that there's a back door to the program, but it is just. Surely the students who entered in 9th grade receive something in those two years that reward their effort and it would be wrong if local students who've also worked hard are locked out of the advanced classes at their own school. As a parent I'd like to believe I have a broader perspective than a HS student. I'll praise the student who gets into the magnet but I don't want anyone's fate sealed in 8th grade. And this isn't the last time our kids will see this, plenty of students don't step up until college or grad school and that doesn't say anything about their worth.

Anyway, what do you hope to accomplish with this anonymous screed a couple days before the open house? Hopefully DCUM posts don't really sway anyone, but if they do, the likely outcome is you just scare off some desirable out-of-boundary applicants leaving more room for local kids to go in the front door.

OP Here. I am supportive of all qualified students (RM and non-Rm cluster) to get support to advance academically. I also support a path for "qualified" students at RM to enter the magnet IB program in 11th grade. I am opposed to the following:

1. Letting RM students enter the magnet IB program without any "qualification" vetting (this is a recent change) and hence lowering the cohort academic level
2. Keeping the 2nd path to the magnet program secretive from non-RM parents/students and hence prohibiting them from making informed choice
3. Not letting non-RM student access to this 2nd chance that RM-student get and hence excluding them from a county owned program unfairly
4. Overcrowding the magnet program without renegotiating magnet resource for increased class sizes and hence lowering the support distribution for the special need magnet students

What I want to achieve to bring this out before the open house:

1. Inform the interested non-RM parents to ask questions and challenge the decision to lower the magnet academic level in 11th and 12th garde
2. Encourage non-RM parents to demand MCPS to oversee a program they own so that principal does not gut it on his whim
3. Inform the parents to help students make decision to join RM knowing what they get vs. what they lose
4. Preserve integrity of a magnet program in MCPS so that the HG students do not flee the public education system
5. Encourage all parents to demand MCPS to open more magnet programs to accommodate all Highly Gifted students and not refuse any qualified student a spot

None of these affect my children specifically. They will be out of the MCPS system in a year. I am deeply committed to highly gifted public education and am very sad that MCPS treats this set of special need student population with contempt. I do not limit my participation to anonymous forum only. I am fairly vocal in my school communities. This is just an extension of my small effort to leave something intact and if not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The integrity of the magnet cohort" must be a fragile thing, if it can be destroyed by having non-magnet students in their classes.

Do you have a magnet student? Do you understand what a magnet cohort means? Are you suggesting we should abolish magnet programs in MCPS? Snide remarks prohibits us from having an educated discussions.

No. Most people do not understand what a magnet cohort means. They think it is a conspiracy to keep their students out from a "special" classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can RMIB keep a portion of the seats for home school applicants only like the middle school magnet programs?

They already do. There are approximately 25/30 that is reserved for JWMS entrants. Two years ago (do not what happened last year) there were close to 50 JWMS entrant to the magnet program. In addition to this 40/45 RM students (who come from JWMS only) enter the magnet program in 11th grade. There used to be some sort of application process for these 40/45 invitations. Now the school is letting anyone who shows interest enter the program - like they do with special programs in Wootton or Clarksburg HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More schools need to adopt this policy!

What policy? To open up "magnet" programs to anyone who is interested?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP, here. I also have a DC in a magnet program (not RM) but she has two friends at RM in 11th grade. One has expressed frustration at the fairness of letting non-magnet students join the program junior year. And I can understand that from the applicant's perspective. But she also said the regular students who join are highly motivated and capable and in no way change the character of the classes. I don't think the PP's comment is snide, it gets at the crux of the issue. It isn't fair that there's a back door to the program, but it is just. Surely the students who entered in 9th grade receive something in those two years that reward their effort and it would be wrong if local students who've also worked hard are locked out of the advanced classes at their own school. As a parent I'd like to believe I have a broader perspective than a HS student. I'll praise the student who gets into the magnet but I don't want anyone's fate sealed in 8th grade. And this isn't the last time our kids will see this, plenty of students don't step up until college or grad school and that doesn't say anything about their worth.

Anyway, what do you hope to accomplish with this anonymous screed a couple days before the open house? Hopefully DCUM posts don't really sway anyone, but if they do, the likely outcome is you just scare off some desirable out-of-boundary applicants leaving more room for local kids to go in the front door.

This. If I didn't already know that DCUM is -- at best!! -- a fun-house-mirror reflection of reality, and my kid were thinking of applying, and I were reading this thread, I might say, "Oh my goodness, no, don't apply to that program, the parents are completely wack."

I do not send my kids to program based on how parents behave - I hope others don't either. You are entitled to use information as you like. I use information to educate myself of all sides before making decision. DCUM is a source of information. With information comes power and I like to share what I learn with other parents IRL and in anonymous forums so that we all are empowered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dd was accepted in RMIB and decided not to attend. From this thread, maybe it was a good choice. But the reason I was encouraging her to join was entirely because of the cohort concept. I liked the idea of a small community of 100 kids in the grade, all of whom she would know well by middle of freshman year. I like the idea that most or all of the kids she was in classes with would be working hard and pushing themselves the way she does. I liked the idea that the strong capabilities of her peers would push her to do even better. She is happy at her home school with middle school friends, but the experience is very different from what I thought the cohort would be.

If the idea of a strong, coherent cohort of very strong students is being lost in this transition, then that's a shame. I'm not sure there's much reason to encourage kids to attend if that's not an important part of the experience-- if the appeal is in the challenge of the courses, alone, most kids can get that with AP and community college classes in their home school, without the commute.

We always second guess our decision and sometime information comes to justify our decisions. I am sure if you knew a few things discussed in this thread, the conversations you had when your DD decided would have been different. I am also sure the students who appealed for rejections, these information would have helped.

Magnet program is not be-all and end-all. However, if the purpose of the magnet programs are lost in social engineering effort then the "magnet" name is not sufficient for many students to leave their home school. If MCPS does not not reverse its course in couple of years, it may risk losing its academically superior status in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The integrity of the magnet cohort" must be a fragile thing, if it can be destroyed by having non-magnet students in their classes.

Do you have a magnet student? Do you understand what a magnet cohort means? Are you suggesting we should abolish magnet programs in MCPS? Snide remarks prohibits us from having an educated discussions.

Yes, I have a kid in a magnet program. Yes, I understand what a magnet cohort means. The kids in my kid's magnet program take academic classes with kids in the comprehensive program. Nothing bad has happened yet.

You are suggesting that Richard Montgomery have separate IB classes for kids in the comprehensive program and in the magnet program. That's absurd.

NP, here. I also have a DC in a magnet program (not RM) but she has two friends at RM in 11th grade. One has expressed frustration at the fairness of letting non-magnet students join the program junior year. And I can understand that from the applicant's perspective. But she also said the regular students who join are highly motivated and capable and in no way change the character of the classes. I don't think the PP's comment is snide, it gets at the crux of the issue. It isn't fair that there's a back door to the program, but it is just. Surely the students who entered in 9th grade receive something in those two years that reward their effort and it would be wrong if local students who've also worked hard are locked out of the advanced classes at their own school. As a parent I'd like to believe I have a broader perspective than a HS student. I'll praise the student who gets into the magnet but I don't want anyone's fate sealed in 8th grade. And this isn't the last time our kids will see this, plenty of students don't step up until college or grad school and that doesn't say anything about their worth.

Anyway, what do you hope to accomplish with this anonymous screed a couple days before the open house? Hopefully DCUM posts don't really sway anyone, but if they do, the likely outcome is you just scare off some desirable out-of-boundary applicants leaving more room for local kids to go in the front door.

But MCPS has been doing this for years in other magnet programs. TPMS and Einstein magnets also allow a backdoor for local students into the magnet program. It's the advantage of living in that cluster. Do they go through the exact same process as the out of cluster magnet students? If they don't, it doesn't seem to have affected parents' and student's motivation to apply for these test in magnets that require a one hour bus ride.

School districts put magnets into the lower achieving schools for a reason. It is a "magnet" to get higher achieving students to live in that cluster. It's worked well for RM to that affect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can RMIB keep a portion of the seats for home school applicants only like the middle school magnet programs?

I can tell you about Clemente Middle School. There is not a portion of seats for home school applicants, instead there are additional seats in the programs for them. For example, in Roberto Clemente MS, 50 seats each are available for the two programs for outside candidates and then there are additional seats that are seperate for RCMS candidates. However, these seats are filled by qualified Clemente students who go through the magnet application process and qualify for the magnet programs. These students rightfully belong in the magnet programs and can thrive in the rigor of the program. The 50 seats per program is what is advertised and is available for the outside students. The lure of the additional seats actually results in a number of people with high achieving students moving into this area.

What does that mean for admissions? Lets say there is a top candidate for the Clemente Humanities program who came in through the application process. Once that person is selected , the admissions committee will assign a space for that candidate from either the 50 seats or from the Clemente seats, depending on their address. I am assuming the same goes for waitlists.

[Anonymous]

Two of my kids went through the RM IB magnet program. I am encouraging my youngest to not apply for RM IB.

I feel bad for Ms. Shay because she is an excellent teacher that I do not see her filling Ms. Hoover's shoes. Ah well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We always second guess our decision and sometime information comes to justify our decisions. I am sure if you knew a few things discussed in this thread, the conversations you had when your DD decided would have been different. I am also sure the students who appealed for rejections, these information would have helped.

Magnet program is not be-all and end-all. However, if the purpose of the magnet programs are lost in social engineering effort then the "magnet" name is not sufficient for many students to leave their home school. If MCPS does not not reverse its course in couple of years, it may risk losing its academically superior status in the process.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain the specific harms that come from including comprehensive kids in IB classes with application kids. Do the classes cover less material? Are there not enough desks in the room? Do the comprehensive kids hurt the application kids' feelings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We always second guess our decision and sometime information comes to justify our decisions. I am sure if you knew a few things discussed in this thread, the conversations you had when your DD decided would have been different. I am also sure the students who appealed for rejections, these information would have helped.

Magnet program is not be-all and end-all. However, if the purpose of the magnet programs are lost in social engineering effort then the "magnet" name is not sufficient for many students to leave their home school. If MCPS does not not reverse its course in couple of years, it may risk losing its academically superior status in the process.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain the specific harms that come from including comprehensive kids in IB classes with application kids. Do the classes cover less material? Are there not enough desks in the room? Do the comprehensive kids hurt the application kids' feelings?

If you are an adult, please discuss like one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP, here. I also have a DC in a magnet program (not RM) but she has two friends at RM in 11th grade. One has expressed frustration at the fairness of letting non-magnet students join the program junior year. And I can understand that from the applicant's perspective. But she also said the regular students who join are highly motivated and capable and in no way change the character of the classes. I don't think the PP's comment is snide, it gets at the crux of the issue. It isn't fair that there's a back door to the program, but it is just. Surely the students who entered in 9th grade receive something in those two years that reward their effort and it would be wrong if local students who've also worked hard are locked out of the advanced classes at their own school. As a parent I'd like to believe I have a broader perspective than a HS student. I'll praise the student who gets into the magnet but I don't want anyone's fate sealed in 8th grade. And this isn't the last time our kids will see this, plenty of students don't step up until college or grad school and that doesn't say anything about their worth.

Anyway, what do you hope to accomplish with this anonymous screed a couple days before the open house? Hopefully DCUM posts don't really sway anyone, but if they do, the likely outcome is you just scare off some desirable out-of-boundary applicants leaving more room for local kids to go in the front door.

This. If I didn't already know that DCUM is -- at best!! -- a fun-house-mirror reflection of reality, and my kid were thinking of applying, and I were reading this thread, I might say, "Oh my goodness, no, don't apply to that program, the parents are completely wack."

Yeah, I was being polite to suggest OP's argument would be the scare factor.