Rich v Affluent

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can any of you who want us to believe $300K is not affluent tell me why you persist in arguing that you are "middle class"? I've asked this before on DCUM -- why are you so deeply ashamed of what you have?

Is it because you know you only have it for reasons that have nothing to do with your merit?

I'm one who thinks 300k hhi is middle class. It's been clearly explained multiple times on multiple threads why people think 300k is not affluent/rich/whatever. If you want to remain willfully ignorant on why we feel the way we do, that's on you. If you want to believe you're rich on your 100 or 300k income, go ahead. I guarantee most people in this area don't agree with you.

+1. In this area given the high COL a married couple who are mid to high level Feds can exceed $300k. So using PP definition you can become rich working for the government?

A HHI above $300K obviates any real concern about paying for a nice house, cars, daycare, college, or retirement, as well as allowing for luxuries like vacations, nice stuff, and paying for childrens' weddings or down payments. Your point seems to be that 3 percent of DC-area households earn even more and so can afford even nicer stuff and longer vacations. I concede this point, while believing it irrelevant to the well-being of a $300K HHI household such as mine.

We make $300K, and we are able to to afford about 3/4 of the things on your list. It's comfortable, and we don't have money worries. We are doing better than a lot of people, and we work our asses for it. It does not allow us to take luxury vacations or own fancy cars without affecting retirement, emergency, and college savings. The costs of housing and childcare here put a big dent disposable income, and, if you have student loan debt, even more so. I'd consider us upper middle class. I work with people who are wealthy. It's an entirely different league.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In DC, any dual income couple in their 30's or older making less than $150k is flat out poor. There is no other way to properly describe that couple. $150k-400k middle. $400-$1 million upper middle. Million plus is affluent. $2 million plus is rich.

http://www.dcfpi.org/interactive-how-does-your-household-income-compare-to-other-dc-households-2-2

So:

1-85% = poor
85-98% = middle class
98-99.9% = upper middle class
99.9%+ = rich

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Those stats are for all D.C., not NW. It's ridiculous for a couple that lives in NW and has HHI of $150k to think they are 85% income level by counting bc NE Andy i guarantee any couples who make that in NW do consider themselves poor and rightly so. We are mid-40's - by our mid 30's we were at HHI $600k. I haven't met a couple living in NW that makes less than $150 in my life, other than a year or so after grad school when friends were in their 20's. Describing a family that can't afford to send their kids to private as middle class is foolish- that alone qualifies you as poor.

Excuse me while i go bang my head against a wall.
You don't get it and apparently never will.
There are many, many, many families in their 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond who live on less than this in NW DC.
I know many of them. Lovely, very well educated, professional, well-spoken, well-traveled families.

THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD IN NW DC DOESN'T WORK IN BIG LAW, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, INVESTMENT BANKING OR SUB-SPECIALTY MEDICINE!!!!!

how hard is it to understand that?

+ 1 I can't believe the bubble some of these entitled, ignorant DCUM posters live in!

So not being able to afford the $20k per kid to send them to private school makes you "poor"?! Guess what - 95% of the people can't afford that. Are you saying all Americans, other than the overpaid lawyers and sub-specialty doctors, are poor?

What about the well-educated accountants....architects.....writers.....microbiologists.....who average less than $100,000? Are they all poor? What about me - $110,000 in my 50s, with season theater tickets, biweekly maid service, and trips to Europe? (I posted before.) Am I poor?

What about my friend, who is an assistant professor and earns less than $100,000? She's in Spain right now, on vacation, and drives a premium car. Is she poor?

What about another friend, an editor, who together with her husband pulls in $120,000? Each of her four kids have their own IPhone and Ipad, and the family just went to Disneyworld this week. Are they poor?

Leave your over privileged little enclave and see what middle-class is. YOU, on the other hand, are rich.

Yes dear, you are poor...and sad, because you keep posting about this. Give it a rest. The argument that your poor friends have iPhones and iPads for their kids and went to Disney is a weak one. I work with many people who live in Section 8, are on Medicaid and food stamps, and have iPhones for themselves and their kids. They go to Disney with their tax refunds.

You are crazy. According to you, 98% of Americans are poor, even the ones with $1 million net worth and who enjoy international travel, maid service, and opera tickets.

And I'm not the only one posting about this. You are an out-of-touch snob.

Hm, I've really touched a nerve haven't I? You need to consider why you become so defensive when others express different opinions from yours. I don't know why you keep bringing up random things like opera tickets and travel. Like I said, I work with many people who are on government benefits, and most of them travel and spend money on luxuries now and then. Literally every single one has a smartphone for themselves and their kids. It doesn't mean they're not poor. Face it, most of America is poor.

No...what is touching a nerve is that there is someone who seems to enjoy calling everyone in America "poor" - even those with a seven-figure net worth who live very comfortably. Why do you enjoy calling successful, educated professionals poor? That is not only an extremely snobby and inaccurate portrayal, it's mean. I guess it bothers me that there are bullies who love to tell successful people that they failures.

It would be as if someone with a Ph.D. called people with Master's degrees uneducated, when they probably represent the top 10% in terms of educational attainment.

And most of America is NOT poor. Most of America is lower-middle class. I am upper-middle class. You..in the top 1%....are rich.

If it makes you feel better to say you are UMC, then say it. But it doesnt change the reality that in NW, you are the poors. Look, I feel better if I tell people thag Im an astronaut. But it doesnt change the fact that Im not.

Just read through this thread and this denigrating language is so ugly. "the poors"? really? Does this make you feel good? I doubt it.

PP is just stating their opinion. I doubt it's about feeling good. I don't know why you guys get so riled up about what class others put you in. I'm sure plenty of people who make and have more than us would think we are the poors. It is what it is. Everyone has their own perspective.

OK, so the PP is stating her opinion to the guy earning $100,000 that he one of "the poors" (what a derogatory term), even though he in the top 15% and seems to take pride in his accomlishments. If the top 15% are "the poors," and the top 1% are the middle class, then what does that make the other 85% of Americans who earn average wages, or less? Gutter trash? No wonder Trump won!

Beyond that, what pleasure does someone earning $300k get by denigrating someone earning $100,000 (which would be $200k for a couple). That person might have worked his way through college and is proud of how well he's done, and yet one or more people on this thread is dumping him in with "the poors" in order to put him in his place. It's actually somewhat disturbing.

[Anonymous]

I forget the exact stat but something like nearly 50% of people live paycheck to paycheck across all incomes. If you are brining home over 10k a month and your expenses are 9k plus you are going to feel poor.

My question to the two fed poster and others. Why do you choose to live in such a high COL area. Why live in NW when you can live in plenty of other places including in metro DC and be rich yes rich by cutting your expense easily by half (mortgage, daycare, and not having to pay for private school)

[Anonymous]

No one is dumping on the poors- that is what you do not understand. People are just saying in NW, $150k HHI dual income qualifies a couple as the poors. True, the poors includes illiterates and people in low income housing. But it also includes -- evidently-- professors, and highly-educated and highly-intelligent people as well. Saying that a hypothetical couple is the poors in NW oesnt detract from that couple's accomplishments or anyone else's accomplishments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is dumping on the poors- that is what you do not understand. People are just saying in NW, $150k HHI dual income qualifies a couple as the poors. True, the poors includes illiterates and people in low income housing. But it also includes -- evidently-- professors, and highly-educated and highly-intelligent people as well. Saying that a hypothetical couple is the poors in NW oesnt detract from that couple's accomplishments or anyone else's accomplishments.

Exactly. I don't know why those posters get so defensive and lash out with the name calling (out of touch snobs, really?) when we respectfully express our opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is dumping on the poors- that is what you do not understand. People are just saying in NW, $150k HHI dual income qualifies a couple as the poors. True, the poors includes illiterates and people in low income housing. But it also includes -- evidently-- professors, and highly-educated and highly-intelligent people as well. Saying that a hypothetical couple is the poors in NW oesnt detract from that couple's accomplishments or anyone else's accomplishments.

But they aren't the poors. They just made a dumb choice in housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is dumping on the poors- that is what you do not understand. People are just saying in NW, $150k HHI dual income qualifies a couple as the poors. True, the poors includes illiterates and people in low income housing. But it also includes -- evidently-- professors, and highly-educated and highly-intelligent people as well. Saying that a hypothetical couple is the poors in NW oesnt detract from that couple's accomplishments or anyone else's accomplishments.

But they aren't the poors. They just made a dumb choice in housing.

They could sell tomorrow, go somewhere else, and viola - money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any of you who want us to believe $300K is not affluent tell me why you persist in arguing that you are "middle class"? I've asked this before on DCUM -- why are you so deeply ashamed of what you have?

Is it because you know you only have it for reasons that have nothing to do with your merit?

I'm one who thinks 300k hhi is middle class. It's been clearly explained multiple times on multiple threads why people think 300k is not affluent/rich/whatever. If you want to remain willfully ignorant on why we feel the way we do, that's on you. If you want to believe you're rich on your 100 or 300k income, go ahead. I guarantee most people in this area don't agree with you.

+1. In this area given the high COL a married couple who are mid to high level Feds can exceed $300k. So using PP definition you can become rich working for the government?

A HHI above $300K obviates any real concern about paying for a nice house, cars, daycare, college, or retirement, as well as allowing for luxuries like vacations, nice stuff, and paying for childrens' weddings or down payments. Your point seems to be that 3 percent of DC-area households earn even more and so can afford even nicer stuff and longer vacations. I concede this point, while believing it irrelevant to the well-being of a $300K HHI household such as mine.

We make $300K, and we are able to to afford about 3/4 of the things on your list. It's comfortable, and we don't have money worries. We are doing better than a lot of people, and we work our asses for it. It does not allow us to take luxury vacations or own fancy cars without affecting retirement, emergency, and college savings. The costs of housing and childcare here put a big dent disposable income, and, if you have student loan debt, even more so. I'd consider us upper middle class. I work with people who are wealthy. It's an entirely different league.

This exactly. Truly wealthy people can buy ANYTHING and it does not affect their future lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Truly wealthy people can save for retirement and kids' college and still have money left over at the end of the month. The vast majority of people can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truly wealthy people can save for retirement and kids' college and still have money left over at the end of the month. The vast majority of people can't.

Plenty of people on DCUM would if they would just move that's why all of this is so sad/hilarious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly wealthy people can save for retirement and kids' college and still have money left over at the end of the month. The vast majority of people can't.

Plenty of people on DCUM would if they would just move that's why all of this is so sad/hilarious

Move where? My job is tied to major urban areas and is not transferable to some lower COL area. Not just I wouldn't get paid as much as I do here, but the job that I do literally does not exist outside the DC/NYC/SF/Chicago areas in decent enough numbers to risk relocating. I know someone who moved for an industry job to a smaller city, and, when laid off from that job, had no other opportunities in the field and was unemployed for a year despite having excellent references, skills, and professional presence. Move further from the city? I already have an hour-long commute, and I live in a house that I'm pretty sure would be described as a "shitshack" by many people here.

Believe me, I am saving my pennies to get the hell out of here as soon as I possibly can, but the idea that people can just pick up their DC-centric jobs and move is sad/hilarious. I don't stay because I love DC, I stay because this is where the high-paying jobs in my field are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly wealthy people can save for retirement and kids' college and still have money left over at the end of the month. The vast majority of people can't.

Plenty of people on DCUM would if they would just move that's why all of this is so sad/hilarious

Move where? My job is tied to major urban areas and is not transferable to some lower COL area. Not just I wouldn't get paid as much as I do here, but the job that I do literally does not exist outside the DC/NYC/SF/Chicago areas in decent enough numbers to risk relocating. I know someone who moved for an industry job to a smaller city, and, when laid off from that job, had no other opportunities in the field and was unemployed for a year despite having excellent references, skills, and professional presence. Move further from the city? I already have an hour-long commute, and I live in a house that I'm pretty sure would be described as a "shitshack" by many people here.

Believe me, I am saving my pennies to get the hell out of here as soon as I possibly can, but the idea that people can just pick up their DC-centric jobs and move is sad/hilarious. I don't stay because I love DC, I stay because this is where the high-paying jobs in my field are.

Further out from DC. Drive. See also: smaller house.

[Anonymous]

And I totally get what you saying -- my job is totally DC based, too, and it would be very hard to find a similar position elsewhere. I've decided to suck it up and drive 1-1.5 hrs. It sounds like a fair number of people posting to this thread could solve the problem by doing something similar ... or by staying close in but compromising on the housing cost some other way. No one forces anybody to live in NW DC. There's Fredrick, there's Baltimore, there's Prince George's ... but if that's not your cuppa, you can buy a townhome for 400k and be zoned into the best Howard County schools.

You may still want to pony up the money for the closer or better house. And that's fine. Just be aware that you have choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is dumping on the poors- that is what you do not understand. People are just saying in NW, $150k HHI dual income qualifies a couple as the poors. True, the poors includes illiterates and people in low income housing. But it also includes -- evidently-- professors, and highly-educated and highly-intelligent people as well. Saying that a hypothetical couple is the poors in NW oesnt detract from that couple's accomplishments or anyone else's accomplishments.

But they aren't the poors. They just made a dumb choice in housing.

Exactly. If they moved out to the suburbs, they'd be affluent.

[Anonymous]

I live in Beverly Hills. The housing is so expensive here that even with our $1 million income, after paying a $20,000 mortgage, exclusive private schools for the three kids, the carrying costs on our ski cabin in Aspen, and the nanny, we don't have enough left to pay for the Ivy League educations our kids will have. So we are middle class.

Get it?