Middle class families - Are you willing to take on a ton of debt for a top college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

Really? Take a look at the profiles of associates at the best venture capital firms or top law firms.

Exactly, look.

Done. Here's the undergraduate schools attended by every associate at Kirkland and Ellis DC:
Arizona State University (2)
Barnard College
Birmingham-Southern College
Boston University (2)
Brigham Young University (2)
Clemson University
College of William and Mary (3)
Columbia University
Cornell University (2)
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Dickinson College
Duke University (3)
Emory University
Georgetown University (7)
George Washington University (7)
Gettysburg College
Harvard University (4)
Haverford College
Idaho State University
Johns Hopkins University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University of Chicago
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Princeton University (2)
Stanford University (4)
UC-Berkeley
UC-Davis
UC-Irvine
UCLA (2)
University of Arizona
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Michigan
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania (2)
University of South Carolina
University of Vermont
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Yale University (5)

I love this list. It puts to rest so many college myths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

Really? Take a look at the profiles of associates at the best venture capital firms or top law firms.

Exactly, look.

Done. Here's the undergraduate schools attended by every associate at Kirkland and Ellis DC:
Arizona State University (2)
Barnard College
Birmingham-Southern College
Boston University (2)
Brigham Young University (2)
Clemson University
College of William and Mary (3)
Columbia University
Cornell University (2)
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Dickinson College
Duke University (3)
Emory University
Georgetown University (7)
George Washington University (7)
Gettysburg College
Harvard University (4)
Haverford College
Idaho State University
Johns Hopkins University
Louisiana State University
Loyola University of Chicago
Northwestern University
Ohio State University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Princeton University (2)
Stanford University (4)
UC-Berkeley
UC-Davis
UC-Irvine
UCLA (2)
University of Arizona
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
University of Michigan
University of Notre Dame
University of Pennsylvania (2)
University of South Carolina
University of Vermont
University of Virginia (3)
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Yale University (5)

I love this list. It puts to rest so many college myths.

Me too! Thank you, PP, for posting and taking the time to look this up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the case of UVa versus Columbia, I'd definitely pick UVa. It is just as good a school. Why pay more for the same quality?

This. Columbia ain't Harvard smart decision imho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

people all over the world have heard about Columbia. Pepperdine not is much. if you don't have at least a feel for a difference you are an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Just for kicks and giggles I'll also do Williams & Connolly.

Abilene Christian University
Amherst College (2)
Arizona State University
Boston College
Boston University (2)
Bowdoin College
Brigham Young University (2)
Brown University (2)
Connecticut College
Cornell University (3)
Creighton University
Dartmouth College (5)
Davidson College
Duke University (11)
Emory University
Florida State University
George Washington University (2)
Georgetown University (4)
Georgia Institute of Technology (2)
Harvard College (5)
Indiana University
Indiana University Southeast
MIT
Nanyang Technological University
Northeastern University
Northwestern University
Princeton University (8)
Rice University
Saint Louis University
Samford University
Stanford University (5)
SUNY-Geneseo
Trinity College (2)
Truman State University
Tulane University
United States Naval Academy
University of California-Los Angeles
University of California-Santa Barbara
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware (2)
University of Denver
University of Florida
University of Maryland-College Park (2)
University of Mississippi
University of Missouri-St. Louis
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
University of Notre Dame (2)
University of Pennsylvania (4)
University of Richmond
University of South Carolina
University of Southern California
University of Texas at Austin (2)
University of Virginia (14)
University of Wisconsin-Madison (3)
Vanderbilt University (5)
Vassar College
Washington University in St. Louis (5)
Wesleyan University
Western Kentucky University
Whitman College
Williams College (4)
Yale University (6)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

people all over the world have heard about Columbia. Pepperdine not is much. if you don't have at least a feel for a difference you are an idiot.

World definitely doesn't know. Either. Unless one was in some movie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just for kicks and giggles I'll also do Williams & Connolly.

Abilene Christian University
Amherst College (2)
Arizona State University
Boston College
Boston University (2)
Bowdoin College
Brigham Young University (2)
Brown University (2)
Connecticut College
Cornell University (3)
Creighton University
Dartmouth College (5)
Davidson College
Duke University (11)
Emory University
Florida State University
George Washington University (2)
Georgetown University (4)
Georgia Institute of Technology (2)
Harvard College (5)
Indiana University
Indiana University Southeast
MIT
Nanyang Technological University
Northeastern University
Northwestern University
Princeton University (8)
Rice University
Saint Louis University
Samford University
Stanford University (5)
SUNY-Geneseo
Trinity College (2)
Truman State University
Tulane University
United States Naval Academy
University of California-Los Angeles
University of California-Santa Barbara
University of Central Florida
University of Chicago
University of Delaware (2)
University of Denver
University of Florida
University of Maryland-College Park (2)
University of Mississippi
University of Missouri-St. Louis
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
University of Notre Dame (2)
University of Pennsylvania (4)
University of Richmond
University of South Carolina
University of Southern California
University of Texas at Austin (2)
University of Virginia (14)
University of Wisconsin-Madison (3)
Vanderbilt University (5)
Vassar College
Washington University in St. Louis (5)
Wesleyan University
Western Kentucky University
Whitman College
Williams College (4)
Yale University (6)

Columbia lost

[Anonymous]

OMG, BigLaw list posting PP - I love you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband has a graduate degree from Columbia. No, we would not pay those prices for undergrad. Would not be worth it.

Columbia might be a ticket-puncher in the Northeast, but out of the area, like we are now, it's just, "nice."

Absolutely. I thought Columbia was like Pepperdine. California here. We don't care about any big east names here, though.

people all over the world have heard about Columbia. Pepperdine not is much. if you don't have at least a feel for a difference you are an idiot.

Sorry, no. In capital cities of Europe and Asia (where I lived until 21 and where my parents and cousins still live), all we hear about is Harvard.
Perhaps, if one is interested and has American friends, Princeton, Yale, MIT. I never, ever heard about Columbia, and I went to a prestigious international high school in Europe with a significant number of Americans.
It's just like Americans only knowing about one or two universities per country (Oxford & Cambridge, La Sorbonne, Tokyo University, if that). I went to the best science university in my home country, and do you guys know it? Of course not.

It's funny how nationals of EVERY country always assume their institutions are so much more famous than they really are
I was watching the news from another country a few days ago, and they literally said that their major film festival was the most famous in the world. Not.
Living as an international person really gives you some perspective.

[Anonymous]

People make the best decisions they can, so I would never begrudge a family that decided they couldn't afford the difference.

But, Columbia has very generous financial aid and it is less expensive than public colleges, including UVA, for almost everyone who is not in the top 20% of incomes. Columbia also has a no loan policy in their financial aid packages. Nor does it include retirement plan assets in calculating expected financial contributions.

So many of these posts are deeply misunderstand how much financial aid is available at Columbia and similar institutions. It would be a shame if others did not consider Columbia because of misinformation.

A "DCUM lower middle class family" earning $150,000/year with $150,000 in home equity and $20,000 in cash/marketable securities would have to contribute about $34,000 at Columbia. That's a relatively small difference from UVA's $30,500 cost of attendance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People make the best decisions they can, so I would never begrudge a family that decided they couldn't afford the difference.

But, Columbia has very generous financial aid and it is less expensive than public colleges, including UVA, for almost everyone who is not in the top 20% of incomes. Columbia also has a no loan policy in their financial aid packages. Nor does it include retirement plan assets in calculating expected financial contributions.

So many of these posts are deeply misunderstand how much financial aid is available at Columbia and similar institutions. It would be a shame if others did not consider Columbia because of misinformation.

A "DCUM lower middle class family" earning $150,000/year with $150,000 in home equity and $20,000 in cash/marketable securities would have to contribute about $34,000 at Columbia. That's a relatively small difference from UVA's $30,500 cost of attendance.

That may be, but in the example OP provided to set up this discussion, there was NO aid provided and cost would be $70K per year. Probably because the student wasn't a top applicant and/or family income is over $200K. They may also have younger children and parents' taking loans for one child may be manageable but then you really need to be willing to do it for the other children. If they can reasonably pay for UVA (and maybe some of that is loans), Columbia is going to be maybe $40K more per year. For about $160K after 4 years. That's a huge amount of debt for a questionable return vs. UVa. Maybe if the student was 100% set on going into investment banking it might, maybe, be worth it. But I can't think of many career paths that would benefit so much from an Ivy league brand + earn the student enough to not care about that level of debt.

I have friends who were always firmly in the state school camp but their oldest has always been a super-high achieving student through his own drive and got into Brown. He wants to work on Wall St. so they decided that for him the investment would be worthwhile. They have three younger children, two whom are old enough to have ideas about careers and college and are more interested in teaching and engineering and will be happy to go to state Us so they decided to do this being fairly confident it would not lock them into feeling they had to provide the same for the others. But, if all the kids were high-achieving Ivy-type students they probably would have said 'no.' They really can't afford to do it for all the kids and it would poison the kids' relationship if they all wanted it but the parents only could help one of the kids.

[Anonymous]

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why you should be saving up front, so you don't have to make these kinds of choices after your kid has worked their butt off all their life to get into the school of his or her dreams.

We have saved as aggressively as we can and cannot pay $70k+/year. We can pay up to $50k.

We do not qualify for financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're asked to pay the total cost of Columbia your family is well off. If the kid got into Columbia obviously they're very bright and motivated and warrant the INVESTMENT -- this isn't a slacker comparing Tailgate State and Pepperdine.

No. there are lots of families who neither qualify for financial aid nor can pay full price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My inclination is the same as yours OP: yes. My parents paid full sticker price for Yale and I am eternally grateful. (My parents' divorce agreement specified that they paid half each for college; my dad could pretty easily afford his half because of my step-mother (whose income made me totally ineligible for financial aid), but my mom borrowed against her 401(k).)

The economics are altogether different from what they were decades ago.

http://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/college-tuition-unaffordable-growth-median-income_n_5505653.html