Harvard's Black Commencement

[Anonymous]

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. It's clear from this statement that you're not of that community.

Gay marriage is the ultimate adoption of heterosexual norms. It is an undeniable rejection of the queerness of the gay community. Joining the military, becoming members of the clergy, the Log Cabin Republicans, adopting a black child and moving out to the 'burbs. That's nothing more than an ersatz version of white heterosexuality, a pale intimation of Leave It to Beaver. Gay, Inc. pushed this image the forefront of the American consciousness primarily for the benefit of affluent white gays who, but for their sexuality, are otherwise conventional. But make no mistake. Gay, Inc. didn't break any new ground with gay marriage, and it certainly didn't push the envelope. The gays who scare and offend you did that. Who do you think was at Stonewall? Who do you think screamed and yelled and organized and marched in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s? Khaki-wearing gay Republicans? Ellen? No, it was the queers, the queens, the motorcycle dykes -- all the people who prompted sanctimonious pearl-clutchers to whine, "If the homosexuals behaved themselves and acted like normal people, we might possibly accept them someday." The fringe of the gay community pushed the limits, and The Acceptable Gays jumped into the safe middle and lobbied hard until The White Mainstream was willing to relent on gay marriage.

So, yes, that's progress if you're satisfied living in that safe middle space and rejecting anything and everything that makes The White Mainstream uncomfortable. ("Oh, dear, why can't those bisexuals just choose what they are and get married?" Oh, dear, isn't Grinder is soooo dangerous -- what with the AIDS?") It's the exactly the same with blacks. Sure, white people will accept blacks as (almost, sort of, but not quite) equal. In return, blacks just have to hate everything about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.

NP. I disagree with this. The plight and uprising of the LGBTQ community is totally different and should be looked at in a different perspective. It's really frustrating that folks keep trying to compare the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. I'm AA and attended another Ivy for graduate training, after an HBCU for undergrad. I can see the desire for such a celebration, in addition to the regular ceremony.

Apparently it's mostly for Harvard graduate students at this point, but they're hoping to extend to undergrads in future years.

Can you elaborate?

PP here. If you're AA or Latino at many institutions, you're part of a pretty small minority. My brother visited me during my Ivy training and commented about how the black students around campus looked lost--lol. He was probably projecting, but still, I can see how for many, it might feel a bit lonely. Having a community can help provide a sense of support during the transition and matriculation, IMO, especially for undergrad.

So basically, sometimes members of these groups seek out others who have their cultural background and shared experiences for a sort of built-in sense of community and support. This graduation ceremony simply seems like an extension/capstone to that experience.

Imagine how Jeremy Lin feels in the NBA.

[Anonymous]

So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. I'm AA and attended another Ivy for graduate training, after an HBCU for undergrad. I can see the desire for such a celebration, in addition to the regular ceremony.

Apparently it's mostly for Harvard graduate students at this point, but they're hoping to extend to undergrads in future years.

Can you elaborate?

PP here. If you're AA or Latino at many institutions, you're part of a pretty small minority. My brother visited me during my Ivy training and commented about how the black students around campus looked lost--lol. He was probably projecting, but still, I can see how for many, it might feel a bit lonely. Having a community can help provide a sense of support during the transition and matriculation, IMO, especially for undergrad.

So basically, sometimes members of these groups seek out others who have their cultural background and shared experiences for a sort of built-in sense of community and support. This graduation ceremony simply seems like an extension/capstone to that experience.

Imagine how Jeremy Lin feels in the NBA.

I am sure. But when he was playing in NY, Chinese Americans would have watch parties when the Knicks played. They would show up to the games. They would stop on the street and express their admiration for him. According to some here, that would be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

Wow! Nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so Klannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Is that what you meant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

Wow! Nailed it.

+1. A+ post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Do you have any facts and stats to support your suggestion that black college graduates who predominantly congregate with one one another struggle with the college to workplace transition. Show me instances and provide testimonies that support your claim that black college graduates who attend a ceremony celebrating their collective achievements have difficulty integrating with the rest of society. Ask the multitude of minorities that you're so chummy with - all the black friends and black neighbors and black colleagues you know so well if the reason they so smoothly assimilated into your world and acquired the skills to associate with you so well is because they refrained from associating with other blacks in college.

Let me know what the consensus is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Do you ever ask yourself WHY these kids tend to hang together? Because it sounds like you are blaming POCs for not integrating more with Whites without acknowledging that Whites play a role in this also You want the POC to leave their comfort zones. Fine. But if Whites are so committed to integration and inclusion, shouldn't they leave their comfort zones too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

We are integrated but that should not be at the expense of our culture and traditions, just like other groups. Would you ask Indian Americans to do this, jettison their culture to help you feel more comfortable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

White chick here. I grew up in a neighborhood where I was one of very few white kids in my school and the only one on my bus. I could write an entire mini series about how I was excluded and blatantly made fun of on a daily basis. It was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But now as an adult, I'm always told that I don't understand and my "white privelige" has made me blind race issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

Yes, I know a federal employee who attended all black conference and was looked upon there.

I have a friend who was going to the predominantly AA church in South and wasn't feeling very welcomed there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and a Jewish Student Graduation Celebration at U of Wisconsin:

Celebrate your graduation with friends and family at Hillel!

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 11 AM, graduates and their families will join us for a celebratory brunch. Immediately following the brunch, at 12 PM, we will join together for a short ceremony recognizing graduates. An esteemed member of the University of Wisconsin administration will join us and a specially selected graduating senior will speak. Click here to register for our graduation celebration.

A wine and cheese reception follows the ceremony.

Graduation Shabbat

That's a lot different from what we're discussing here. But I wouldn't expect a University of Wisconsin graduate to be able to see that.

It's a similar event. A separate graduation celebration. And, by the way, I posted it and I'm a Harvard graduate.