Harvard's Black Commencement

[Anonymous]

There is a huge double standard here. Nobody complains about hispanic or asian events, yet black events like this rub people the wrong way.

Most non blacks have seen so much negativity in the black community for decades that they simply don't like what they see. They see many of these people as being divisive, unlike asians, hispanics, immigrants, etc. I could make a huge list of legitimate complaints, but it would serve no purpose. I'm sure there are redeeming qualities in the black community, but not so much compared to the other groups. When the black community improves, then perceptions will change, and this will be NO BIG DEAL. Ironically, the ones doing the celebrating are the success stories, yet they are the ones receiving the backlash (at least on DCUM LOL).

Most liberals won't admit it, but they have similar views. I don't see any of them moving to SE DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

White chick here. I grew up in a neighborhood where I was one of very few white kids in my school and the only one on my bus. I could write an entire mini series about how I was excluded and blatantly made fun of on a daily basis. It was awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But now as an adult, I'm always told that I don't understand and my "white privelige" has made me blind race issues.

I am AA and grew up in a predominantly White area and I experienced the same from the White kids. Luckily for me there were institutions where I could go to get support - AA church in the neighboring town was one. My dad's AA fraternity youth guild was another. So that being said, I am glad that these students had a group they could turn to to get support and motivation. Based on what you went through growing up, you probably can see a need for it too for students who are not the majority in their school.

How could a white person find solace in predominately white things in a black community? These things don't exist. And can you imagine the backlash if anyone tried?

This sentiment is crazy. A white person camt seek solace from people of other races and vice versa?

Arent we all humans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.

You actually just proved my point. And the "infantile" remarks and the like are totally un-called for. But that is the DCUM way. I disagree with you personally, so let me insult you. Cool. Just realize that is more a reflection on you than it is me.

What is racial unity? Define it. Because based on comments like this - that is "whitewashing" (no pun intended). What I want is the acceptance and embracing of diversity. We are different. There is not a dang thing wrong with that. But our differences do not make us inferior or superior to one another. And we can appreciate the differences that we have and the resulting different experiences and perspectives. Being pro-POC is not being anti-White. It's not that hard.

I am not intent on segregation. What I am intent on is being able to celebrate my tradition without someone accusing me of wanting segregation. Instead of sitting there criticizing me, come sit at MY table and participate. But you would rather me come to your table or you would rather stand there and criticize me for having my own table.

Ironically, my DD's college had a LGBTQ student graduation celebration also. Guess that was wrong too.

If there was a DCUM applaud icon, I would gladly give it to you. Settle for a + million instead.

+1 Love this. LoooooooVe it!!

I'm going to respond to the bolded text above because there seems to be a disconnect. Or more likely, you trigger too easily and view comments through the lens of a victim which twists even benign comments into imagined racism which frankly makes having a civilized dialogue rather difficult. But setting that aside let me state that nobody is saying that special interest groups shouldn't celebrate their own culture. Nobody is saying that there is any difference between AAs and other special interest groups. Nobody is saying that Harvard grads don't have the right to host their own celebration. We should be in agreement up until this point. But here's where you're getting the analogy wrong. You've created a construct where there is an us vs. them. An imagined balkanization of society where there is a white table, a black table, etc. That wasn't the point at all. The point was that there is an our table (not a white table) which comprises a diverse majority, and then there are a whole host of special interest tables. It is incumbent upon the majority table to create an environment that encourages inclusion, the safe and open exchange of ideas, etc. And it is incumbent on the special interest groups to join that table whilst maintaining a position at their own. It's a specious argument to suggest that non-AAs insert themselves into the AA table. Would I be welcome if I applied for membership to Jack & Jill, an AA fraternity, the AA house on campus or the like? Of course not and nor should I be...those are safe spaces that by design are created to provide support to the AA community.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if schools like Howard and Hampton have additional commencements for white students.

[Anonymous]

The Black grad activity at Columbia was an emotional, spiritual and fun event (speeches, impromptu family tributes, food and performances) attended by students, families and administrators. At the end students walk across the stage to receive a certificate and other trinkets. I left the ceremony more appreciative of what it takes for my son and other AAs to attend PWIs (predominately white institutions) on the college level vs my son's experience at a Big 3.

It's my understanding the Columbia students raised funds for the Black, Latino and Asian grad events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if schools like Howard and Hampton have additional commencements for white students.

I'm sure they would if students advocated for such an event or if the university itself felt compelled to hold such an event in order to celebrate diversity and "update" their identity in terms of inclusiveness, but you gotta bear in mind the fact that while blacks are by far a majority at HBCU's like Howard and Hampton those schools don't have historic ties to slavery and discrimination like Harvard. Now you may say, "So what that was over one hundred years ago", but that's YOUR attitude. That's not the attitude of the university or the students and to them it was a big deal last year when Harvard remembered its forgotten past and dedicated a plaque to four enslaved persons who lived and worked on campus in the 18th century. To them it meant something when the university decided to retire the Harvard Law School Shield, which was modeled on the family crest of an 18th century slaveholder. And to them the commencement ceremony means something too - it's not what many misconstrue to be an example of a school "accommodating" would-be black separatists...it's an institution of higher learning acknowledging a past of racism and discrimination that has been overlooked and marginalized and hidden while also pledging a dedication to greater acceptance and inclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.

You actually just proved my point. And the "infantile" remarks and the like are totally un-called for. But that is the DCUM way. I disagree with you personally, so let me insult you. Cool. Just realize that is more a reflection on you than it is me.

What is racial unity? Define it. Because based on comments like this - that is "whitewashing" (no pun intended). What I want is the acceptance and embracing of diversity. We are different. There is not a dang thing wrong with that. But our differences do not make us inferior or superior to one another. And we can appreciate the differences that we have and the resulting different experiences and perspectives. Being pro-POC is not being anti-White. It's not that hard.

I am not intent on segregation. What I am intent on is being able to celebrate my tradition without someone accusing me of wanting segregation. Instead of sitting there criticizing me, come sit at MY table and participate. But you would rather me come to your table or you would rather stand there and criticize me for having my own table.

Ironically, my DD's college had a LGBTQ student graduation celebration also. Guess that was wrong too.

If there was a DCUM applaud icon, I would gladly give it to you. Settle for a + million instead.

+1 Love this. LoooooooVe it!!

I'm going to respond to the bolded text above because there seems to be a disconnect. Or more likely, you trigger too easily and view comments through the lens of a victim which twists even benign comments into imagined racism which frankly makes having a civilized dialogue rather difficult. But setting that aside let me state that nobody is saying that special interest groups shouldn't celebrate their own culture. Nobody is saying that there is any difference between AAs and other special interest groups. Nobody is saying that Harvard grads don't have the right to host their own celebration. We should be in agreement up until this point. But here's where you're getting the analogy wrong. You've created a construct where there is an us vs. them. An imagined balkanization of society where there is a white table, a black table, etc. That wasn't the point at all. The point was that there is an our table (not a white table) which comprises a diverse majority, and then there are a whole host of special interest tables. It is incumbent upon the majority table to create an environment that encourages inclusion, the safe and open exchange of ideas, etc. And it is incumbent on the special interest groups to join that table whilst maintaining a position at their own. It's a specious argument to suggest that non-AAs insert themselves into the AA table. Would I be welcome if I applied for membership to Jack & Jill, an AA fraternity, the AA house on campus or the like? Of course not and nor should I be...those are safe spaces that by design are created to provide support to the AA community.

Different poster. AA. I was nodding my head toward the end of your post, because I agree. But you squash your own argument by prefacing it with a judgement that's a pretty commonly issued directive about how to feel. You can't tell someone how to feel or how to perceive their experiences.

Plenty of people think it's perfectly acceptable to tell AAs what they should believe, how they should behave, and how they should react to situations which the judges applying these directives have never experienced and never will. To add insult to injury, they then tell them how they should feel. Please stop that. Because, frankly, it makes having a civilized dialogue rather difficult.

The fact is, quite a few people are saying that this group shouldn't host its own celebration. That's the primary issue holding up the 10+ pages of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.

You actually just proved my point. And the "infantile" remarks and the like are totally un-called for. But that is the DCUM way. I disagree with you personally, so let me insult you. Cool. Just realize that is more a reflection on you than it is me.

What is racial unity? Define it. Because based on comments like this - that is "whitewashing" (no pun intended). What I want is the acceptance and embracing of diversity. We are different. There is not a dang thing wrong with that. But our differences do not make us inferior or superior to one another. And we can appreciate the differences that we have and the resulting different experiences and perspectives. Being pro-POC is not being anti-White. It's not that hard.

I am not intent on segregation. What I am intent on is being able to celebrate my tradition without someone accusing me of wanting segregation. Instead of sitting there criticizing me, come sit at MY table and participate. But you would rather me come to your table or you would rather stand there and criticize me for having my own table.

Ironically, my DD's college had a LGBTQ student graduation celebration also. Guess that was wrong too.

If there was a DCUM applaud icon, I would gladly give it to you. Settle for a + million instead.

+1 Love this. LoooooooVe it!!

I'm going to respond to the bolded text above because there seems to be a disconnect. Or more likely, you trigger too easily and view comments through the lens of a victim which twists even benign comments into imagined racism which frankly makes having a civilized dialogue rather difficult. But setting that aside let me state that nobody is saying that special interest groups shouldn't celebrate their own culture. Nobody is saying that there is any difference between AAs and other special interest groups. Nobody is saying that Harvard grads don't have the right to host their own celebration. We should be in agreement up until this point. But here's where you're getting the analogy wrong. You've created a construct where there is an us vs. them. An imagined balkanization of society where there is a white table, a black table, etc. That wasn't the point at all. The point was that there is an our table (not a white table) which comprises a diverse majority, and then there are a whole host of special interest tables. It is incumbent upon the majority table to create an environment that encourages inclusion, the safe and open exchange of ideas, etc. And it is incumbent on the special interest groups to join that table whilst maintaining a position at their own. It's a specious argument to suggest that non-AAs insert themselves into the AA table. Would I be welcome if I applied for membership to Jack & Jill, an AA fraternity, the AA house on campus or the like? Of course not and nor should I be...those are safe spaces that by design are created to provide support to the AA community.

Different poster. AA. I was nodding my head toward the end of your post, because I agree. But you squash your own argument by prefacing it with a judgement that's a pretty commonly issued directive about how to feel. You can't tell someone how to feel or how to perceive their experiences.

Plenty of people think it's perfectly acceptable to tell AAs what they should believe, how they should behave, and how they should react to situations which the judges applying these directives have never experienced and never will. To add insult to injury, they then tell them how they should feel. Please stop that. Because, frankly, it makes having a civilized dialogue rather difficult.

The fact is, quite a few people are saying that this group shouldn't host its own celebration. That's the primary issue holding up the 10+ pages of this thread.

Yes, you're right about not telling people how to feel. Thank you for that correction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Black grad of Harvard College and two of their grad schools. Not a good idea 30 years ago, when I attended, and worse idea now.

Great! Don't go.

[Anonymous]

I worry about how these types of events are interpreted by those who say it's only natural to feel more comfortable with people of the same background, religion, or race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge double standard here. Nobody complains about hispanic or asian events, yet black events like this rub people the wrong way.

Most non blacks have seen so much negativity in the black community for decades that they simply don't like what they see. They see many of these people as being divisive, unlike asians, hispanics, immigrants, etc. I could make a huge list of legitimate complaints, but it would serve no purpose. I'm sure there are redeeming qualities in the black community, but not so much compared to the other groups. When the black community improves, then perceptions will change, and this will be NO BIG DEAL. Ironically, the ones doing the celebrating are the success stories, yet they are the ones receiving the backlash (at least on DCUM LOL).

Most liberals won't admit it, but they have similar views. I don't see any of them moving to SE DC!

Even if they did, they would be hated as "gentrifiers."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has this already been discussed?

Harvard is doing a separate ceremony exclusively for Black Students. I'm not Black or White (other minority), but found the article interesting.

I was trying to figure out if the Black students are also allowed to attend the 'regular' ceremony, of if they are only allowed to attend one?

And, will this idea trickle down to other schools? Or, even down to high schools?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-hold-graduation-ceremony-black-124111044.html

This might be the stupidest ideas yet, very surprising for such a "smart institution". Just really silly, it will never stop. EVER.

[Anonymous]

Those who excuse themselves accuse themselves, clearly they feel they owe it to the black students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who excuse themselves accuse themselves, clearly they feel they owe it to the black students.

Um. Whut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has this already been discussed?

Harvard is doing a separate ceremony exclusively for Black Students. I'm not Black or White (other minority), but found the article interesting.

I was trying to figure out if the Black students are also allowed to attend the 'regular' ceremony, of if they are only allowed to attend one?

And, will this idea trickle down to other schools? Or, even down to high schools?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-hold-graduation-ceremony-black-124111044.html

This might be the stupidest ideas yet, very surprising for such a "smart institution". Just really silly, it will never stop. EVER.

Sounds like you scared of something.
What is it the thing that "won't stop" that is giving you having nightmares?