Protecting money you gift adult kids for a house

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. My father worked really hard and as a result created trusts for his children and grandchildren. If my spouse were to mistreat me, cheat etc you think that my spouse deserves 1/2 of the money I was entrusted with (8 digits) - money all earned and gifted before we were even dating? Wouldn't you feel terrible losing that money because you chose the wrong spouse. For our kids trusts I'm the trustee (along with our estate planner)- my husband isn't one. Why? Because people protect their money. Smart people anyway. You all are very generous with your pretend trusts- but I wonder how you would feel if that trust was an actuality.

New poster here without a pretend trust. Our net worth is in 8 digits and most of it is inherited. Both of us inherited significant amounts of money but far more on one side than the other. There are trusts on both sides as well but all the money that can be co-mingled has been and we don't have a prenup.

I get that the money is important to you because your father worked hard to earn it and trusted you enough to give it to you, but what do you see as the purpose of the money going forward? What are you going to do with it? If you leave it to your kids or grandkids they may eventually spend it in a way that you completely disapprove of, even without spouses. Do you plan to give most of it to charity? Or spend it? I am just curious about what you see as the future purpose of this asset that you have worked so hard to protect.

Non-wealthy poster here.

I think it is okay to feel strongly about the money your father left for you. But if you want to protect it in your lifetime(because, like PP said, your children could still waste it all), marry someone with similar money.

Don't go into a marriage in which others are putting everything on the table and choose to keep some stuff back because your father worked hard for it.

Look at it from our perspective. Our parents worked equally hard(from our perspective, it does not even matter whether it is true or not ) to bring us up and mold us into these wonderful people that you would like to marry(humor me). Why should we bring all their hard work to the table and you keep some of yours behind?

You assume my prenup only protected my trust- it protected his assets (like the home he owned) as well.

[Anonymous]

Oh- and PS 8 figure trusts are fairly unusual when you are in your 30's you really think that should only be who I'm alllwed to date?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find this thread eye-opening. I did not grow up with trust funds nor do I have any for my kids or anything like that, but I don't get this hostility to pre-nups at all. Are you all very young? Have you not started to see acrimonious divorces in your social circles? I'm happily married for many years now, but I don't kid myself that the people who I see going through terrible divorces (or, in some cases, putting up with appalling behavior from spouses) were just dumber than me when it came to marriage. There's an element of luck in long-term marriage that I think people just want to pretend doesn't exist. I have a great spouse, but when I look at my divorcing contemporaries, they had the same thing when they got married too. (And yes, I know that the 50% divorce number doesn't apply to college-educated, blah blah blah, but even a 20% number is high: that's a 1 in 5 number, it's just not the rarity people want to pretend.)

I'm no family lawyer, but it seems to be obvious to me that marriage is both a romantic and familial relationship and a legal contract. You can take control and draft your own version of the legal contract, or you can rely on the state's default legal contract. The default legal contract is messy, unpredictable, changes depending on the judge you get, and may contain terms that you'd personally find abhorrent. You can use it if you'd like; if you get married without a pre-nup, that's exactly what you're doing. Or, you can think carefully about things before you go into marriage, and draft up a legal contract that reflects your own values. If you don't want to participate in the legal contract aspect, you can stay in a long-term relationship without actually getting married.

I don't have a pre-nup. It wasn't something that was on my radar at the time of marriage; I didn't even know they existed. However, from my vantage point now, I view it as akin to pre-marital counseling. IMO if discussing a pre-nup is too uncomfortable, maybe you shouldn't be getting married to begin with.

I am not sure where you are getting the hostility from.

Some posters disagree with prenups and others agree with them.

It's a discussion.

By hostility I mean opposition to them, which I definitely see on this thread. If you disagree with pre-nups, you are hostile to them, in other words, at least for yourselves if not for others. If you prefer, you can replace hostility with opposition in that sentence: I do not get the opposition to pre-nups at all. If a couple isn't willing to have an honest and frank discussion of how they're about to enter into a legal relationship as well as a familial and romantic relationship, maybe they aren't ready to get married.

Ok. I misinterpreted your use of the word then. In that case, I don't understand the hostility towards those who disagree with prenups. Previous posters have made a pretty convincing case against them.

How so? What case have they made?

I was wondering the same exact thing! All I've gotten out of this is that prenups make sense when one or both spouses bring significant asssets into a marriage. Hilarious to me how people say to SAHM that they are fools who don't have any protection- then a woman talks about how she has protected herself and you ridicule that, too. Pick a lane, DCUM

Seriously. If anything this thread has made me want to encourage my non-trust-fund children to put pre-nups in place. Lots of willful ignorance going on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh- and PS 8 figure trusts are fairly unusual when you are in your 30's you really think that should only be who I'm alllwed to date?

No, I don't. And I am sorry if I gave that impression with my "marry someone with similar money."

I am just stating my perspective, and the way I would handle the situation if I wanted to protect my father's money from the risk of divorce from my spouse.

There are obviously non-wealthy people who are fine with such prenups and do not view it as creating some kind of "situation" in the marriage. So it is cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find this thread eye-opening. I did not grow up with trust funds nor do I have any for my kids or anything like that, but I don't get this hostility to pre-nups at all. Are you all very young? Have you not started to see acrimonious divorces in your social circles? I'm happily married for many years now, but I don't kid myself that the people who I see going through terrible divorces (or, in some cases, putting up with appalling behavior from spouses) were just dumber than me when it came to marriage. There's an element of luck in long-term marriage that I think people just want to pretend doesn't exist. I have a great spouse, but when I look at my divorcing contemporaries, they had the same thing when they got married too. (And yes, I know that the 50% divorce number doesn't apply to college-educated, blah blah blah, but even a 20% number is high: that's a 1 in 5 number, it's just not the rarity people want to pretend.)

I'm no family lawyer, but it seems to be obvious to me that marriage is both a romantic and familial relationship and a legal contract. You can take control and draft your own version of the legal contract, or you can rely on the state's default legal contract. The default legal contract is messy, unpredictable, changes depending on the judge you get, and may contain terms that you'd personally find abhorrent. You can use it if you'd like; if you get married without a pre-nup, that's exactly what you're doing. Or, you can think carefully about things before you go into marriage, and draft up a legal contract that reflects your own values. If you don't want to participate in the legal contract aspect, you can stay in a long-term relationship without actually getting married.

I don't have a pre-nup. It wasn't something that was on my radar at the time of marriage; I didn't even know they existed. However, from my vantage point now, I view it as akin to pre-marital counseling. IMO if discussing a pre-nup is too uncomfortable, maybe you shouldn't be getting married to begin with.

I am not sure where you are getting the hostility from.

Some posters disagree with prenups and others agree with them.

It's a discussion.

By hostility I mean opposition to them, which I definitely see on this thread. If you disagree with pre-nups, you are hostile to them, in other words, at least for yourselves if not for others. If you prefer, you can replace hostility with opposition in that sentence: I do not get the opposition to pre-nups at all. If a couple isn't willing to have an honest and frank discussion of how they're about to enter into a legal relationship as well as a familial and romantic relationship, maybe they aren't ready to get married.

Ok. I misinterpreted your use of the word then. In that case, I don't understand the hostility towards those who disagree with prenups. Previous posters have made a pretty convincing case against them.

How so? What case have they made?

I was wondering the same exact thing! All I've gotten out of this is that prenups make sense when one or both spouses bring significant asssets into a marriage. Hilarious to me how people say to SAHM that they are fools who don't have any protection- then a woman talks about how she has protected herself and you ridicule that, too. Pick a lane, DCUM

Seriously. If anything this thread has made me want to encourage my non-trust-fund children to put pre-nups in place. Lots of willful ignorance going on here.

It looks like we have all gotten something out of this thread!

It has made me want to encourage my children to avoid getting married into families that insist on pre-nups.

[Anonymous]

Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

[Anonymous]

Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

My kid's most valuable assets are their health, their family, their self esteem, their brains, their education, to name a few.

Money is nowhere near one of the most important ones, and I hope it never is. If they get to share all the other ones with their spouses, I fail to see how keeping money to the side is worth it.

I understand that when you have a lot of money, it might be the case for you.

Good for you.

I am not judging you, so don't judge me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly different perspective here: my DH comes from a wealthy family, had significant personal assets from his own earnings, knew I had no assets and student loan debt, and did not ask me for a prenup. His parents have given him over $400K during our marriage for various significant expenses (down payment, new cars), and we have no prenup. I also got a reasonably valuable engagement family engagement ring and some other family jewelry (his family).

Not expecting to get divorced (although only married 3 yrs, together 8), but if we did divorce, I would not try to claim any of the assets DH brought into the marriage or gifts from his parents given to us during the marriage or the jewelry, because it would not be ethically right to claim them. We have children, but I make a good income (although much less than my DH), I didn't marry him for his money, and I can support myself and our kids. Granted, I couldn't afford to have us live like we do now, but we would be fine.

I don't understand people trying to get money that isn't meant for them when they get divorced.

Well, these situations can get complicated. Suppose the wife didn't work or didn't save to her 401k because she trusted that she would stay married and have access to those assets, and also to take care of the kids. Then her DH leaves her and the children in a scurrilous way. In that situation, getting some of the DH's pre-marriage assets would not be unethical. Another scenario could be in a divorce where he has claim to half of YOUR meager assets (like your retirement savings, which are marital assets if you saved during marriage). So he takes you to the cleaners, and meanwhile he's living high on the hog off of his prenup assets. As you can see, these scenarios is why prenups generally hurt women, rather than help.

Or say the assets were the wife's, and she didn't work, and the husband's income wasn't enough to allow for her/their spending AND adequate retirement savings, but he trusted that he would stay married and have access to those assets. In that situation, getting some of the DW's pre-marriage assets would not be unethical. Another scenario would be in a divorce where she has a claim to half YOUR meager assets, etc. As you can see, the DH would get taken to the cleaners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

My kid's most valuable assets are their health, their family, their self esteem, their brains, their education, to name a few.

Money is nowhere near one of the most important ones, and I hope it never is. If they get to share all the other ones with their spouses, I fail to see how keeping money to the side is worth it.

I understand that when you have a lot of money, it might be the case for you.

Good for you.

I am not judging you, so don't judge me.

My kids' most valuable assets mirror yours, and my takeaway from this thread is that they should really consider a pre-nup, if only so that it gets them to talk about serious issues and write their feelings down about them, because what I see here is a lot of fear about honest conversation pre-marriage, and a lot of wishful thinking instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

My kid's most valuable assets are their health, their family, their self esteem, their brains, their education, to name a few.

Money is nowhere near one of the most important ones, and I hope it never is. If they get to share all the other ones with their spouses, I fail to see how keeping money to the side is worth it.

I understand that when you have a lot of money, it might be the case for you.

Good for you.

I am not judging you, so don't judge me.

And I hope your children do their best to protect those interests: exercise, going to the doctors regularly, being life long learners etc. I don't understand the idea that you consider it good and proper that they nurture and protect those assets- a financial asset is just another thing to protect and nurture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

My kid's most valuable assets are their health, their family, their self esteem, their brains, their education, to name a few.

Money is nowhere near one of the most important ones, and I hope it never is. If they get to share all the other ones with their spouses, I fail to see how keeping money to the side is worth it.

I understand that when you have a lot of money, it might be the case for you.

Good for you.

I am not judging you, so don't judge me.

My kids' most valuable assets mirror yours, and my takeaway from this thread is that they should really consider a pre-nup, if only so that it gets them to talk about serious issues and write their feelings down about them, because what I see here is a lot of fear about honest conversation pre-marriage, and a lot of wishful thinking instead.

Cool. We took away different things.

[Anonymous]

And you know what? Money makes life easier. Money makes health easier. Money gives your child choices. So the idea of actively encouraging someone to not marry someone that they are in love with who has money is crazy town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally! Make sure your kids don't protect their assets- great advice mom!

My kid's most valuable assets are their health, their family, their self esteem, their brains, their education, to name a few.

Money is nowhere near one of the most important ones, and I hope it never is. If they get to share all the other ones with their spouses, I fail to see how keeping money to the side is worth it.

I understand that when you have a lot of money, it might be the case for you.

Good for you.

I am not judging you, so don't judge me.

And I hope your children do their best to protect those interests: exercise, going to the doctors regularly, being life long learners etc. I don't understand the idea that you consider it good and proper that they nurture and protect those assets- a financial asset is just another thing to protect and nurture.

I agree with protecting and nurturing financial assets as you would all the others. Now protecting them from a spouse, because of the risk of divorce is where we disagree. I don't understand why you keep missing this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you know what? Money makes life easier. Money makes health easier. Money gives your child choices. So the idea of actively encouraging someone to not marry someone that they are in love with who has money is crazy town.

Money does make life easier. So does being beautiful, young, strong, healthy, bla bla bla.

But we have to look at the big picture when we get married. And when the big picture includes a prenup, it doesn't do it for me, and I hope it will not for my children.

We are a very happy as a lower middle class family. And my parents were too. My children will be fine with the not so little money they and their spouse work for(and we will help them because we are very frugal and have saved some for them)