Do people lie about FARMS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

You are right. Most people don't make six figures. Which is why we can't subsidize them all. How much do you know about how much I make? There are plenty of people who've worked for years and don't make much more than $50,000. They aren't getting govt. assistance though. Particularly if they are dual income. There are plenty of families making $100,000 together or even less that are working very hard and are not qualifying for any help.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you advocating for getting rid of food stamps, rental assistance and other social programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

Empty nesters, DINKS, SINKS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

You are right. Most people don't make six figures. Which is why we can't subsidize them all. How much do you know about how much I make? There are plenty of people who've worked for years and don't make much more than $50,000. They aren't getting govt. assistance though. Particularly if they are dual income. There are plenty of families making $100,000 together or even less that are working very hard and are not qualifying for any help.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you advocating for getting rid of food stamps, rental assistance and other social programs?

I'm saying that public assistance can't cover everyone who makes less than $100,000. You act like $40,000 starting salary is not a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

Empty nesters, DINKS, SINKS?

That, plus I guess the wealthier folks there sending their kids to privates?

[Anonymous]

FARMS - free and reduced price school meals

"Reduced-price meal (or reduced-price breakfast, lunch, supper, snack) is a term used in the US to describe a federally reimbursable meal (or snack) served to a child who applies for and qualifies because the family's income is between 130 and 185 percent of the federal poverty threshold."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

Empty nesters, DINKS, SINKS?

That, plus I guess the wealthier folks there sending their kids to privates?

I'm sure those things explain some of the discrepancy, but a difference of 7.2% poverty according to the census vs. 57% poverty according to FARMs numbers from FCPS (I just checked - those are the most recent numbers)? I'm not convinced all of that difference can be explained by those things, but I suppose it's theoretically possible.

[Anonymous]

I know an unmarried female couple who obtain benefits by only reporting the income of one partner. The other partner owns a private practice and does quite well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know an unmarried female couple who obtain benefits by only reporting the income of one partner. The other partner owns a private practice and does quite well.

That's a result of the "marriage penalty," not fraud per se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

You are right. Most people don't make six figures. Which is why we can't subsidize them all. How much do you know about how much I make? There are plenty of people who've worked for years and don't make much more than $50,000. They aren't getting govt. assistance though. Particularly if they are dual income. There are plenty of families making $100,000 together or even less that are working very hard and are not qualifying for any help.

If you live in Fairfax County, and your household income is $52k (http://www.fcps.edu/fs/food/serve/documents/FRAppFormWLetterInstructions.pdf) and you have 5 members of your household (2 parents, 3 kids), yes you do quality for government assistance in the form of free/reduced meals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know an unmarried female couple who obtain benefits by only reporting the income of one partner. The other partner owns a private practice and does quite well.

Do they have any kids in common that legally belong to both of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

In the Lee HS area specifically (although I dont know exactly the boundary lines so I apologize if my assumptions are bordering into Edison/W Springfield/Hayfield territory), I would guess that the discrepancy is because of several factors that result the phenomenon of a higher income for families w/o school aged kids + lower income for those w/school aged kids:

First, because it is an older neighborhood there are many families whose children have grown up--they have lived there forever. So these families likely have a higher income simply due to age. I'm in my late 30s and when I was in school, Lee didnt suck as bad as it did now. Plenty of people I know's parents still live where they always have--schools dont matter anymore so they have no reason to move. So you get high income from this group but no FARMS because no school aged kids.

Second, there a lot of townhomes/condos that are likely inhabited by single people/couples w/no kids/families w/kids who arent in school yet... Granted there are a lot of older garden style apartments that are going to feed into the high FARMS rate and increase the poverty level. But I'm talking about the newer condos/apartments. A high income for these families seems believable.

So, while the single family houses zoned for Lee are pretty...modest...leading to the FARMs rate being 50%, there are plenty of households w/non-school-aged children who are doing just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

In the Lee HS area specifically (although I dont know exactly the boundary lines so I apologize if my assumptions are bordering into Edison/W Springfield/Hayfield territory), I would guess that the discrepancy is because of several factors that result the phenomenon of a higher income for families w/o school aged kids + lower income for those w/school aged kids:

First, because it is an older neighborhood there are many families whose children have grown up--they have lived there forever. So these families likely have a higher income simply due to age. I'm in my late 30s and when I was in school, Lee didnt suck as bad as it did now. Plenty of people I know's parents still live where they always have--schools dont matter anymore so they have no reason to move. So you get high income from this group but no FARMS because no school aged kids.

Second, there a lot of townhomes/condos that are likely inhabited by single people/couples w/no kids/families w/kids who arent in school yet... Granted there are a lot of older garden style apartments that are going to feed into the high FARMS rate and increase the poverty level. But I'm talking about the newer condos/apartments. A high income for these families seems believable.

So, while the single family houses zoned for Lee are pretty...modest...leading to the FARMs rate being 50%, there are plenty of households w/non-school-aged children who are doing just fine.

This. I have no problem believing Lee is legitimately 50% FARMS and not because anyone is lying about it. The area off Backlick, near Fresh World, that feeds into Lee is quite poor and it isn't the only poor area feeding into Lee.

PP's explanation is probably most likely, but otherwise I would be inclined to believe that either certain areas are not considered part of Springfield CDP for whatever reason, OR they're not counting the people there properly. Undocumented immigrants do not necessarily participate in the census.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

In the Lee HS area specifically (although I dont know exactly the boundary lines so I apologize if my assumptions are bordering into Edison/W Springfield/Hayfield territory), I would guess that the discrepancy is because of several factors that result the phenomenon of a higher income for families w/o school aged kids + lower income for those w/school aged kids:

First, because it is an older neighborhood there are many families whose children have grown up--they have lived there forever. So these families likely have a higher income simply due to age. I'm in my late 30s and when I was in school, Lee didnt suck as bad as it did now. Plenty of people I know's parents still live where they always have--schools dont matter anymore so they have no reason to move. So you get high income from this group but no FARMS because no school aged kids.

Second, there a lot of townhomes/condos that are likely inhabited by single people/couples w/no kids/families w/kids who arent in school yet... Granted there are a lot of older garden style apartments that are going to feed into the high FARMS rate and increase the poverty level. But I'm talking about the newer condos/apartments. A high income for these families seems believable.

So, while the single family houses zoned for Lee are pretty...modest...leading to the FARMs rate being 50%, there are plenty of households w/non-school-aged children who are doing just fine.

This. I have no problem believing Lee is legitimately 50% FARMS and not because anyone is lying about it. The area off Backlick, near Fresh World, that feeds into Lee is quite poor and it isn't the only poor area feeding into Lee.

PP's explanation is probably most likely, but otherwise I would be inclined to believe that either certain areas are not considered part of Springfield CDP for whatever reason, OR they're not counting the people there properly. Undocumented immigrants do not necessarily participate in the census.

The area off of Backlick is not ideal. We lived in one of those garden style apartments when I was in middle school. It sucked then and sucked even worse now. However the houses near Lake Accotink are nicer--not just there, as you have nicer houses that you cant see from Backlick/Franconia Rd. There are some nice neighborhoods off of the Parkway, also off of Braddock when you get to the other side of the Parkway, but I dont know what is considered to be Springfield vs Burke vs Alexandria in that area, and thus considered Springfield CDP/zoned for Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

In the Lee HS area specifically (although I dont know exactly the boundary lines so I apologize if my assumptions are bordering into Edison/W Springfield/Hayfield territory), I would guess that the discrepancy is because of several factors that result the phenomenon of a higher income for families w/o school aged kids + lower income for those w/school aged kids:

First, because it is an older neighborhood there are many families whose children have grown up--they have lived there forever. So these families likely have a higher income simply due to age. I'm in my late 30s and when I was in school, Lee didnt suck as bad as it did now. Plenty of people I know's parents still live where they always have--schools dont matter anymore so they have no reason to move. So you get high income from this group but no FARMS because no school aged kids.

Second, there a lot of townhomes/condos that are likely inhabited by single people/couples w/no kids/families w/kids who arent in school yet... Granted there are a lot of older garden style apartments that are going to feed into the high FARMS rate and increase the poverty level. But I'm talking about the newer condos/apartments. A high income for these families seems believable.

So, while the single family houses zoned for Lee are pretty...modest...leading to the FARMs rate being 50%, there are plenty of households w/non-school-aged children who are doing just fine.

This. I have no problem believing Lee is legitimately 50% FARMS and not because anyone is lying about it. The area off Backlick, near Fresh World, that feeds into Lee is quite poor and it isn't the only poor area feeding into Lee.

PP's explanation is probably most likely, but otherwise I would be inclined to believe that either certain areas are not considered part of Springfield CDP for whatever reason, OR they're not counting the people there properly. Undocumented immigrants do not necessarily participate in the census.

You should google Springfield CDP boundary map if you want to see the boundaries. If anything, the numbers for the Springfield CDP should be worse than the Lee HS numbers because the Springfield CDP does not include the Saratoga area which is probably the wealthiest area that feeds into Lee. The reasons mentioned certainly explain some of the differences in the numbers, but the discrepancy is big enough that I'm not willing to conclude that part of the difference could also be attributable to families claiming eligibility for FARMs even if they don't actually meet the income requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

In the Lee HS area specifically (although I dont know exactly the boundary lines so I apologize if my assumptions are bordering into Edison/W Springfield/Hayfield territory), I would guess that the discrepancy is because of several factors that result the phenomenon of a higher income for families w/o school aged kids + lower income for those w/school aged kids:

First, because it is an older neighborhood there are many families whose children have grown up--they have lived there forever. So these families likely have a higher income simply due to age. I'm in my late 30s and when I was in school, Lee didnt suck as bad as it did now. Plenty of people I know's parents still live where they always have--schools dont matter anymore so they have no reason to move. So you get high income from this group but no FARMS because no school aged kids.

Second, there a lot of townhomes/condos that are likely inhabited by single people/couples w/no kids/families w/kids who arent in school yet... Granted there are a lot of older garden style apartments that are going to feed into the high FARMS rate and increase the poverty level. But I'm talking about the newer condos/apartments. A high income for these families seems believable.

So, while the single family houses zoned for Lee are pretty...modest...leading to the FARMs rate being 50%, there are plenty of households w/non-school-aged children who are doing just fine.

This. I have no problem believing Lee is legitimately 50% FARMS and not because anyone is lying about it. The area off Backlick, near Fresh World, that feeds into Lee is quite poor and it isn't the only poor area feeding into Lee.

PP's explanation is probably most likely, but otherwise I would be inclined to believe that either certain areas are not considered part of Springfield CDP for whatever reason, OR they're not counting the people there properly. Undocumented immigrants do not necessarily participate in the census.

You should google Springfield CDP boundary map if you want to see the boundaries. If anything, the numbers for the Springfield CDP should be worse than the Lee HS numbers because the Springfield CDP does not include the Saratoga area which is probably the wealthiest area that feeds into Lee. The reasons mentioned certainly explain some of the differences in the numbers, but the discrepancy is big enough that I'm not willing to conclude that part of the difference could also be attributable to families claiming eligibility for FARMs even if they don't actually meet the income requirements.

The CDP data also states that there are 2.9 people per house. So I think that some faulty census taking could be to blame for the discrepancy. Some of the aforementioned multi family households off of backlick rd could have opted out of taking the census for reasons related to legal status in this country, either of themselves or their family.

Additionally CDP data states that 58% of the area is married couples living alone. Which leaves 33% families w children under the age of 18. Seeing as some of those go to w Springfield and some go to private schools and not all of the children under 18 are in high school , I think it's not a long shot that there it is correct that 900ish kids at Lee (50%) are legit farms.