Do people lie about FARMS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: If you have a married couple and their kids living with you (relatives) and you support them, you cannot claim them on your tax return even if you support them, unless they won't be filing their own return.

But now you've gone into lala land with your continued insistence on trying to prove fraud exists in places where it doesn't. (Again, fraud exists, but NOT IN WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING.)

+1.

I'm leaving this thread, there's no need to engage someone who obviously prefers to live in Trump-land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone is actually interested in what constitutes a household for SNAP purposes (from http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligibility):

What is a Household?

Everyone who lives together and purchases and prepares meals together is grouped together as one household. However, if a person is 60 years of age or older and he or she is unable to purchase and prepare meals separately because of a permanent disability, the person and the person's spouse may be a separate household if the others they live with do not have very much income. (More than 165 percent of the poverty level.)

Some people who live together, such as husbands and wives and most children under age 22, are included in the same household, even if they purchase and prepare meals separately.

Normally people are not eligible for SNAP benefits if an institution gives them their meals. However, there is one exception for elderly persons and one for disabled persons:

Residents of federally subsidized housing for the elderly may be eligible for SNAP benefits, even though they receive their meals at the facility.
Disabled persons who live in certain nonprofit group living arrangements (small group homes with no more than 16 residents) may be eligible for SNAP benefits, even though the group home prepares their meals for them.

Exactly. So if an extended family living together choose to prepare and purchase their meals together, they are one household.

If you have separate families living together who are each responsibile for buying food for their own families, they do NOT need to be counted as one household.

Yes, and I'm sure all the immigrant families shacking up together that prepare and eat their meals together are being very careful to report the income of all family members when they request public assistance.

Have you ever lived in a roommate situation? What makes you believe everyone is eating together as some big happy commune?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: If you have a married couple and their kids living with you (relatives) and you support them, you cannot claim them on your tax return even if you support them, unless they won't be filing their own return.

But now you've gone into lala land with your continued insistence on trying to prove fraud exists in places where it doesn't. (Again, fraud exists, but NOT IN WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING.)

+1.

I'm leaving this thread, there's no need to engage someone who obviously prefers to live in Trump-land.

+2 I'm out as well. PP obviously just wants to claim a ton of fraud based on her ~beliefs~ but lacks the knowledge and proof to back it up. Crazy fraud PP, if you have any proof, report it. If you don't, have fun talking to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: If you have a married couple and their kids living with you (relatives) and you support them, you cannot claim them on your tax return even if you support them, unless they won't be filing their own return.

But now you've gone into lala land with your continued insistence on trying to prove fraud exists in places where it doesn't. (Again, fraud exists, but NOT IN WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING.)

+1.

I'm leaving this thread, there's no need to engage someone who obviously prefers to live in Trump-land.

+2 I'm out as well. PP obviously just wants to claim a ton of fraud based on her ~beliefs~ but lacks the knowledge and proof to back it up. Crazy fraud PP, if you have any proof, report it. If you don't, have fun talking to yourself.

It was nice meeting you. Bye

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is commmon for a lot of ESL immigrant families to put too many people in one house. If you were to add up the incomes of all the people in that house, no way would they be under the poverty line. You're lying to yourself if you think these people don't know how to take advantage of the system and report only the income of one family member on the form to get free or reduced meals for heir kids. Word travels fast in the immigrant communities about how to save money. If they ever get caught, they just play dumb and pretend like they didn't understand because they no speak English good.

You sound dumb and racist. Different families living in one home may be a housing violation but it isn't a violation for public assistance programs. You seem to fail to grasp that a household, for public assistance purposes, relates to family members who are legally responsible for each other. The entire household is not counted, and why would it be? Your roommate or friend isn't responsible for providing food to your kids. Also, don't forget that for each additional person the income limit increases.

Please, take tour disillusioned, idiotic, xenophobic crap elsewhere. Or at LEAST learn a little bit about what you're talking about, because you clearly have zero idea about how social services work.

+1. PP above is beyond dumb. If some families have to (or choose to) share their living space, let's congratulate them for their frugality and saving habits.

But I assume those are foreign concepts to some PPs like the one above.

Damned if you do and damned with you don't with some people.

"How can someone afford to live here?"
"They get roommates."
"No fair! If they have roommates they should pool their money and feel rich!"

There's a big gap between being poor and being rich. If you are legitimately poor, in poverty, that's what FARMs are for. But, if you're a large family pooling your resources together, you may not be rich, but you're not necessarily poor either. The test for these programs is household income, not per capita income. You may not like the rules and you may enjoy spending taxpayer money to help middle class families taking advantage of the system, but that doesn't change what the rules are.

You are crazy.

Call the IRS and ask them if three families living in one same house automatically become one household unit and should prepare one combined tax return.

Did I mention you are crazy?

+1 You may WANT it to work that way, PP. But that doesn't mean it DOES.

Well, it DOESN'T and it SHOUDLN'T, because it simply makes no sense.

Say my adult cousin needs to move in my basement for a year. Or what about an au-pair. Or the 3 guys I shared a house with several years during college. Are we all part of the same legal & fiscal household?

Of course not.

I don't think most people are talking about your cousin renting out the basement or the au-pair. We're talking about a large extended family living together and depending on each other in a SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE. Public assistance programs often require you to list all forms of support you are receiving including indirect support. I know - I've filled out the forms before for other family members. If you're being honest about indirect family support, it is often very difficult to receive public assistance. Whatever. The people on this board who think public assistance programs are all on the up and up and that everyone is being 100% honest and/or there are proper safeguards in place to ensure that cheating is kept to a minimum are laughable.

Cash assistance from family members? Countable. Providing shelter at no charge? Not countable. At least, not for SNAP or reduced lunch.

No one said everyone is being 100% honest. People are saying that there is an obvious misunderstanding about how the programs work, and that a lot of what is being thrown around as "fraud" is not fraud. And also, yet again, if you ACTUALLY KNOW of anyone committing fraud, report it.

+1. I'm all of stopping and reporting fraud. But frugal living and sharing house arrangements is not a fraud, it's something to respect. And when someone doesn't understand that, I'm not sure that person really cares about actual fraud.

Shared housing is often now allowed by zoning law. So no, it's not something to respect. The public facilities in an area are based on the zoning, so if there are more than the allowed number of people living in a residence, it causes strain to the public facilities.

[Anonymous]

Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

+ a million.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who can survive off 40k with a family and not live in subsided housing?

Some people do op. Probably most of them aren't lying, but some do. Here's a story of a pg county school board member who got caught.

http://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2016/04/former-prince-georges-school-board-member-sentenced-school-lunch-theft/

She claims it was a mistake, but you'd think she'd notice that she never had to give her kid any lunch money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who can survive off 40k with a family and not live in subsided housing?

Some people do op. Probably most of them aren't lying, but some do. Here's a story of a pg county school board member who got caught.

http://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2016/04/former-prince-georges-school-board-member-sentenced-school-lunch-theft/

She claims it was a mistake, but you'd think she'd notice that she never had to give her kid any lunch money.

What a surreal story.

The "best" part:

"Mundey was, and is, a federal employee of the Government Accountability Office, and it was that agency that discovered that she was one of six GAO employees from the county who had underreported their incomes to qualify for the program for their children."

[Anonymous]

It's human nature. People lie when it benefits themselves, they have little chance of being caught, and even if they do get caught, there are little or no consequences. I'm sure we can all find some boo hoo story about somewhat who really deserves the public assistance, but that doesn't change human nature and the fact that people will lie to get benefits like FARMs and Food stamps. What percentage? We'll probably never know because the government isn't really interested in discovering the fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

But, that doesn't mean they're below the poverty line either. Struggling, no doubt, given the COL, but not necessarily below the poverty line.

[Anonymous]

One thing that puzzles me is the huge discrepancy between FARM rates for certain schools and the poverty rate and median income figures from the census. Whenever I have looked at schools in the area, there seems to be huge differences. Take Lee HS and the Springfield CDP (which basically covers only central Springfield, not west Springfield). As I recall, the FARMs rate at Lee HS is around 50%, but the census numbers for he Springfield CDP say the poverty rate is something like 7% with a median household income around $90k. What accounts for such a significant difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this, as everything on DCUM, turn into immigrants? There are PLENTY of hard working people--US Citizens--who dont make $40k/year! So they live in basement apartments or share houses because they have to in order to live. These are not illegal immigrants who are living with 10 other family members.

We know someone who is an employee of Fairfax County Schools--instructional aide--who makes under $30k. Likely under $25k. Someone who is teaching your children every day in a "nice" school. This person is a single mother who lives in a basement apartment (in a single family house in a nice neighborhood) with her child because that is what she can afford. Her child is likely on free/reduced lunch. Many of you posters would look at her child, living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with a white American mother who works at a nice school and not even think twice about their having "money".

It's not just teachers. Fairfax County police officers--starting salary is under $50k. If you are married with children, that puts you under the limit for free/reduced lunch in fairfax county. So the nice police officer who you spoke with the other day--they are someone else you wouldn't think to be on reduced lunch but they are.

The list goes on of people you think are nice, upstanding members of society and would NEVER think have to live in someone's basement/with roommates, and would NEVER have to sign their kid up for free/reduced lunch, but they do.

I get your point, but most people don't have a starting salary and have a kindergartener.

Yet not everyone in Fairfax County makes six figures.

How much do the admin assistants in your office make?
What about the front desk person at your dentist's office?
The dental assistant at your dentist's office?
The nurse at your drs office?
Your hairdresser?
The guy who installs your cable?

You are right. Most people don't make six figures. Which is why we can't subsidize them all. How much do you know about how much I make? There are plenty of people who've worked for years and don't make much more than $50,000. They aren't getting govt. assistance though. Particularly if they are dual income. There are plenty of families making $100,000 together or even less that are working very hard and are not qualifying for any help.