Ideas of How APS Can Solve High School Overcrowding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First, I want people to remember that not only is there only so much money (and debt capacity) and land around, but they're not all in one big pot. So you (general you) can't say, "We didn't build the trolley, so now we have money for schools!" The trolley money was only there for a trolley. It's gone now. You're not being generous when you suggest that the VHC site go for schools but Arlington County can keep Jennie Dean as a park. Those are AC properties, not APS.

Money is not just money, too. $25M of county money spent on a school is $25M of county money spent on a school. $25M of county money spent on affordable housing qualifies us for $25M in federal grants, which gets us $50M of housing compared to $25M of schools. $25M of county money spent on transportation gets us $25M of state money and $50M of federal money, which gets of $100M in road improvements compared to $25M of schools. (I'm making these numbers up, but you see the point.) The financial tradeoffs are not always 1:1, which is why it is hard to look at the net community benefits and decide what is the best choice for the community when you're the decisionmaker.

NP here. I agree with what you're saying. HOWEVER, you are forgetting the fact that there's a burden created on services when you create more AH (burden on schools, infrastructure, police, etc) or improve transportation infrastructure in certain ways (e.g., widening roads tends to increase through traffic from other counties) and that the negative externalities of any choice will be paid by the tax-paying residents (e.g., more crime, pollution, etc).

Investing in schools, on the other hand, may not come with up-front grants or outside funding. However, it does lead to increased property values, which leads to increased tax revenue (and therefore more money to improve infrastructure or services), it leads to a better-educated population which is an economic benefit, and it leads to greater stability of residents.

So while I agree with you, I think the board has been making decisions along the lines of your thinking: "Oh, it's $X vs. $Y" instead of holistically considering the outcomes of each type of investment and balancing them to move Arlington in a sustainable and positive direction.

[Anonymous]

Lottery for $10k/yr/student voucher for private or home or FFXschools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Investing in schools, on the other hand, may not come with up-front grants or outside funding. However, it does lead to increased property values, which leads to increased tax revenue (and therefore more money to improve infrastructure or services), it leads to a better-educated population which is an economic benefit, and it leads to greater stability of residents.

So while I agree with you, I think the board has been making decisions along the lines of your thinking: "Oh, it's $X vs. $Y" instead of holistically considering the outcomes of each type of investment and balancing them to move Arlington in a sustainable and positive direction.

If your take were true, good schools would be self-sustaining, but the improvement in property values does not provide an increase in tax revenue sufficient to sustain schools.

The societal benefits your first paragraph ascribes to education are only going to increase the gulf between the haves and the have-nots if you don't ensure that a range of socioeconomic groups are allowed to benefit from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


NP here. I agree with what you're saying. HOWEVER, you are forgetting the fact that there's a burden created on services when you create more AH (burden on schools, infrastructure, police, etc) or improve transportation infrastructure in certain ways (e.g., widening roads tends to increase through traffic from other counties) and that the negative externalities of any choice will be paid by the tax-paying residents (e.g., more crime, pollution, etc).
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I think all of the externalities you are claiming with AH are false. Your premise is wrong- the AF is replacing what used to be market rate housing, and providing stable housing for poor people already living in Arlington. It is not bringing in masses of poor people to Arlington If you look at say, the number of FARMS students in the county over the last 10 years, in 2002 Arlington had approximately 18,000 students, and approximately 41% were FARMS qualified-
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/support/nutrition/statistics/free_reduced_eligibility/2002-2003/divisions/2002-2003.pdf
in 2016 Arlington ha approximately 26,000 students, and 30% were FARMS qualified.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/support/nutrition/statistics/free_reduced_eligibility/2015-2016/divisions/frpe_div_report_sy2015-16.pdf

Thus- even if you accepted your premise that AH meant more crime, transportation etc- (which I don't)- the number of poor people in the county has gone substantially down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


NP here. I agree with what you're saying. HOWEVER, you are forgetting the fact that there's a burden created on services when you create more AH (burden on schools, infrastructure, police, etc) or improve transportation infrastructure in certain ways (e.g., widening roads tends to increase through traffic from other counties) and that the negative externalities of any choice will be paid by the tax-paying residents (e.g., more crime, pollution, etc).
.

I think all of the externalities you are claiming with AH are false. Your premise is wrong- the AF is replacing what used to be market rate housing, and providing stable housing for poor people already living in Arlington. It is not bringing in masses of poor people to Arlington If you look at say, the number of FARMS students in the county over the last 10 years, in 2002 Arlington had approximately 18,000 students, and approximately 41% were FARMS qualified-
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/support/nutrition/statistics/free_reduced_eligibility/2002-2003/divisions/2002-2003.pdf
in 2016 Arlington ha approximately 26,000 students, and 30% were FARMS qualified.
http://www.pen.k12.va.us/support/nutrition/statistics/free_reduced_eligibility/2015-2016/divisions/frpe_div_report_sy2015-16.pdf

Thus- even if you accepted your premise that AH meant more crime, transportation etc- (which I don't)- the number of poor people in the county has gone substantially down.

The percentage has gone down.
That's not the same as the number.
Concentrated poverty breeds crime. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The hostility of the APS apologists on this thread is amazing. No wonder it's made bad decisions that leave APS unprepared to handle the number of MS and HS students in a few years. The leadership clearly has surrounded itself with a bunch of sycophants that defend every decision made or left unmade by Murphy and crew.

I'm not an APS apologist. I'm well informed -- informed enough to know that there aren't any easy answers.

I see the people demanding that someone "do something" the same way I see Trump voters -- as people who believe that there is some obvious solution out there and we just need the right leaders to say it. In fact, at the national and the local levels, policy and budget trade offs create winners and losers and there are a lot of entrenched opposing viewpoints, which is why both Trump voters and parents who think the rest of the Arlington taxpayers are just going to roll over and build a fourth high school because you signed a petition are WASTING THEIR TIME. There are no simple, obvious solutions to our problems, just tough choices that require a lot of time and effort to build consensus around.

Public policy is not a one-time vote on a candidate or a one-time vote on a CIP. It's a process and you have to stay informed and stay active if you want to make a difference and get support for your point of view.

This will never happen. It's time for the people we elected to lead to do just that and to make the tough choices. Because there is no neighborhood that won't try to fight a new school for one reason or another. And there will always be some who think it's okay to short-change today's children in order to keep their taxes lower. "The Arlington Way" is now just a smoke screen for officials to hide behind. MAKE THE TOUGH CHOICES. THAT WHAT LEADERS DO.

I don't think people understand that some of the tradeoffs are between today's children and today's children. If they commit to a new high school, that takes a lot of other construction off the table. Kids at the elementary and middle school level will be in trailers and unrenovated schools for the next 10 years. There won't be enough money to deal with the overcrowding at Long Branch, the R-B corridor, Oakridge overcrowding that isn't addressed by the new S. Arlington elementary, etc. The tradeoffs aren't all between a new high school and parkland. It's between a high school and two new elementary schools and two expansions.

Oakridge's capacity issues are going to be handled by boundary changes. Some of you are going to Drew after Montessori is moved out. They are not building a new school there any time in soon (look at the projections).

And the new elementary school at TJ will also help alleviate overcrowding.

Why are you talking about elementary schools when the real problems are at the middle and high school levels?

They don't have enough money under the bond ceiling to build a fourth comprehensive high school, even if the county gives them the land.
Getting the county to give them more debt capacity would require the county board to take that money away from parks, transportation, roads/infrastructure, and other capital projects.
If APS does not get the additional money it needs to build a fourth high school from the county, it would need to give up one of its elementary or middle school projects.
That would make the crowding problems at those levels worse than what is now projected.

But APS needs to get the land now, whether it be the VHC or Buck parcel, or reclaiming a former school and relocating a community center/programs to a commercial property because land is only becoming more scarce and more expensive. Or we really never will have another new school despite the insane projections. Maybe we don't have the money to build it all right now, but if we don't get the land, the money doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

A county that cannot figure out how to solve this is truly a county that is of, by,and for idiots. I live in Arlington. I wish it catered to people other than pasty faced moms of toddlers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A county that cannot figure out how to solve this is truly a county that is of, by,and for idiots. I live in Arlington. I wish it catered to people other than pasty faced moms of toddlers.

It caters to the AH crowd and that's it. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A county that cannot figure out how to solve this is truly a county that is of, by,and for idiots. I live in Arlington. I wish it catered to people other than pasty faced moms of toddlers.

Obviously it doesn't if they can't figure out how to get our kids into a high school, dipshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A county that cannot figure out how to solve this is truly a county that is of, by,and for idiots. I live in Arlington. I wish it catered to people other than pasty faced moms of toddlers.

It caters to the AH crowd and that's it. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this problem.

Seriously? It builds an elementary school with a slide? It goes for a more-expensive option for a middle school, then adds an even more expensive dropoff lane to what's supposed to be a walkable school -- this project and Slide Elementary both in North Arlington, and you're saying Arlington caters to the affordable housing crowd?

Imagine Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka.

[Anonymous]

Slide Elementary. I suggest that the next school be called Wait Your Turn High School.

[Anonymous]

Million dollar dog parks, million bus stops, etc...

Yet no $ for schools when we are so ridiculously over-capacity and projected to be by a HS-worth of kids.

Get your f-ing act together. Murphy and Board.

I have homeless people roaming and harassing me due to the Homeless Hilton in Courthouse....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Million dollar dog parks, million bus stops, etc...

Yet no $ for schools when we are so ridiculously over-capacity and projected to be by a HS-worth of kids.

The grownups are talking about compromises and facts. You scoot on up to bed now, honey, and take your hyperbole with you.

[Anonymous]

Are there any vacant office buildings that could be retro-fitted as a school? Or even have 1/2 day at the office building for some classes and then swap them with the kids at the traditional high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there any vacant office buildings that could be retro-fitted as a school? Or even have 1/2 day at the office building for some classes and then swap them with the kids at the traditional high school.

This has been costed out and rejected--not cost effective for the capacity it would get us. Look at the presentations from the SAWG--they discussed.