Ideas of How APS Can Solve High School Overcrowding

[Anonymous]

Given that land is such a premium in Arlington, could the county actually save money by:

1) Paying for some students to attend private school or DC charter (if there's a school that matches what the county spends per student plus the cost of not creating a seat for that student)
2) Merge the high schools with DC or another municipality to allow students to attend

I assume there are all sorts of legal reasons why that wouldn't work, but it's a thought. I know Virginia doesn't really allow charter schools, but I know that some school districts allow outside students to attend if they pay tuition. Why not rent seats elsewhere? High school students should be capable of riding Metro, so it would work in theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given that land is such a premium in Arlington, could the county actually save money by:

1) Paying for some students to attend private school or DC charter (if there's a school that matches what the county spends per student plus the cost of not creating a seat for that student)
2) Merge the high schools with DC or another municipality to allow students to attend

I assume there are all sorts of legal reasons why that wouldn't work, but it's a thought. I know Virginia doesn't really allow charter schools, but I know that some school districts allow outside students to attend if they pay tuition. Why not rent seats elsewhere? High school students should be capable of riding Metro, so it would work in theory.

What are you smoking? This is absolutely the worst ideas I've heard of. Why would we want our kids to attend school in the district?

[Anonymous]

It was just a thought. Obviously, the well ranked schools in the district are already hard to get into. But what about working with them to use some of the underutilized ones? It would be cheaper than building to rent across the river, maybe make a regional academy or something? Not popular, but it could work. Or the county could rent a building in FFX.

[Anonymous]

To me, the most obvious short-term solution is to rent space in some of the unused commercial buildings in the county. But there are inherent limitations with this:

1) They probably are not "up to code" in terms of being school facilities. Still, I think we could use them as satellite campuses for classroom space, etc.

2) Landlords may be unwilling to lock in negotiated rates -- they'd prefer to keep empty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given that land is such a premium in Arlington, could the county actually save money by:

1) Paying for some students to attend private school or DC charter (if there's a school that matches what the county spends per student plus the cost of not creating a seat for that student)
2) Merge the high schools with DC or another municipality to allow students to attend

I assume there are all sorts of legal reasons why that wouldn't work, but it's a thought. I know Virginia doesn't really allow charter schools, but I know that some school districts allow outside students to attend if they pay tuition. Why not rent seats elsewhere? High school students should be capable of riding Metro, so it would work in theory.

I don't see how, legally, #1 wouldn't apply to any Arlington kid...and there are already thousands who attend private school. So maybe we would just start paying for all the kids who already go to Bishop O'Connell or SASSS or GDS and not make a dent in the overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

I might be OK with my kid graduating in 3 years. He will have taken two years of high school math and two years of foreign language in middle school. If he took a class--especially some of the random electives like personal finance--each summer between 8/9, 9/10, and 10/11 -- could he fulfill all the requirements for an advanced diploma in three years and be done? Then he could do some kind of gap year and go to college "on time."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was just a thought. Obviously, the well ranked schools in the district are already hard to get into. But what about working with them to use some of the underutilized ones? It would be cheaper than building to rent across the river, maybe make a regional academy or something? Not popular, but it could work. Or the county could rent a building in FFX.

You can't just rent a building in Fairfax and send kids to school there. And the zoning commission wouldn't approve the use of a building for that purpose. Arlington has to decide its priorities on its own and address them accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, the most obvious short-term solution is to rent space in some of the unused commercial buildings in the county. But there are inherent limitations with this:

1) They probably are not "up to code" in terms of being school facilities. Still, I think we could use them as satellite campuses for classroom space, etc.

2) Landlords may be unwilling to lock in negotiated rates -- they'd prefer to keep empty.

Although I do not like this idea at all, it's much more reasonable than the other suggestions re: DC.

The county needs to do a real assessment of the costs associated with these alternative solutions (i.e., not building a new school). Murphy's CIP had double shifting as a non-capital solution but only mentions in a footnote that operational costs could be significant. Duh, if you keep schools open longer throughout the day and in the school year you need more resources (staff, facilities, etc.). Why isn't this being calculated?

Also, as another poster suggested in the other APS thread, a detailed survey should be done of WL students and parents to examine the actual impact of zero periods and other alternative approaches they've already started before deciding to roll them out to the other APS schools. There are obviously things that may solve space constraints, but may not be good ideas for learning, feeling of community w/n school, etc.

[Anonymous]

What??? I live in Arlington so my kids won't have to deal with the DCPS kids.

[Anonymous]

Additions onto the three high schools, and cut down on multi- family housing. Redraw boundaries. The population will eventually peak and decline at some point. Make Arlington Tech bigger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me, the most obvious short-term solution is to rent space in some of the unused commercial buildings in the county. But there are inherent limitations with this:

1) They probably are not "up to code" in terms of being school facilities. Still, I think we could use them as satellite campuses for classroom space, etc.

2) Landlords may be unwilling to lock in negotiated rates -- they'd prefer to keep empty.

Although I do not like this idea at all, it's much more reasonable than the other suggestions re: DC.

The county needs to do a real assessment of the costs associated with these alternative solutions (i.e., not building a new school). Murphy's CIP had double shifting as a non-capital solution but only mentions in a footnote that operational costs could be significant. Duh, if you keep schools open longer throughout the day and in the school year you need more resources (staff, facilities, etc.). Why isn't this being calculated?

Also, as another poster suggested in the other APS thread, a detailed survey should be done of WL students and parents to examine the actual impact of zero periods and other alternative approaches they've already started before deciding to roll them out to the other APS schools. There are obviously things that may solve space constraints, but may not be good ideas for learning, feeling of community w/n school, etc.

I think you need to go a county wide survey because the problem will affect all schools eventually, especially if boundaries have to be redrawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What??? I live in Arlington so my kids won't have to deal with the DCPS kids.

If the county temporarily rents a school building, its possible they wouldn't really be with DCPS kids. Or if it were a joint magnet school, it would relieve crowding, if 50% come from Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Arlington spent around $20K/student in 2014. Even if it gave $10K/student get send some to private or just paid another district, it could help. I'd rather them fix the problem in the county and rent the space here though.

http://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/arlington-per-student-spending-again-tops-the-region/article_aec435ec-6e4d-11e4-993c-635d5ab85d84.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington spent around $20K/student in 2014. Even if it gave $10K/student get send some to private or just paid another district, it could help. I'd rather them fix the problem in the county and rent the space here though.

http://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/arlington-per-student-spending-again-tops-the-region/article_aec435ec-6e4d-11e4-993c-635d5ab85d84.html

I don't think the math works. As one PP pointed out above, it would be unfair for APS to offer to pay for private schools for kids who are currently in APS but not for kids who are currently in private schools (but eligible for APS). Presumably every Arlington resident kid currently in local private schools would be entitled to these vouchers, although they may be able to do some means-testing. So the program would cost a lot more than just $10,000 x the number of "excess" APS students.

Also, while I have no real idea how much $$ private schools cost these days, many are likely well over $10,000, so we'd either not have many takers or we'd have to raise the money.

And then there's the feedback effect of pumping government money into private schools--I would assume that the private schools would do what private colleges have done since the advent of the GI Bill and raise their tuitions to keep increasing the amount of government money flowing in.

Even if you don't ascribe cynical motives to the people setting prices for private school tuition, the presence of extra money and extra demand, with limited potential for supply-side expansion, would likely drive up the market-clearing prices for private schools, which again means that the cost would be higher than [current tuition] x [current excess enrollment].

That said, is there any legal impediment to APS setting up a new public school in Fairfax? Until recently, Falls Church City's high school was located in Fairfax. And of course we also send kids to TJ in Fairfax. Not sure how much that really improves our options, but it's probably available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington spent around $20K/student in 2014. Even if it gave $10K/student get send some to private or just paid another district, it could help. I'd rather them fix the problem in the county and rent the space here though.

http://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/arlington-per-student-spending-again-tops-the-region/article_aec435ec-6e4d-11e4-993c-635d5ab85d84.html

I don't think the math works. As one PP pointed out above, it would be unfair for APS to offer to pay for private schools for kids who are currently in APS but not for kids who are currently in private schools (but eligible for APS). Presumably every Arlington resident kid currently in local private schools would be entitled to these vouchers, although they may be able to do some means-testing. So the program would cost a lot more than just $10,000 x the number of "excess" APS students.

Also, while I have no real idea how much $$ private schools cost these days, many are likely well over $10,000, so we'd either not have many takers or we'd have to raise the money.

And then there's the feedback effect of pumping government money into private schools--I would assume that the private schools would do what private colleges have done since the advent of the GI Bill and raise their tuitions to keep increasing the amount of government money flowing in.

Even if you don't ascribe cynical motives to the people setting prices for private school tuition, the presence of extra money and extra demand, with limited potential for supply-side expansion, would likely drive up the market-clearing prices for private schools, which again means that the cost would be higher than [current tuition] x [current excess enrollment].

That said, is there any legal impediment to APS setting up a new public school in Fairfax? Until recently, Falls Church City's high school was located in Fairfax. And of course we also send kids to TJ in Fairfax. Not sure how much that really improves our options, but it's probably available.

I would seriously question the wisdom of putting a school in another jurisdiction. To have a local clear example of how that doesn't work, look at FCC and the Mt. Daniel expansion project. Also, it's not like there are wide swaths of available land right outside Arlington- fairfax county built its new bailey's elementary in an office bldg.

In terms of the private school placement idea- using the 20K number to try and come up with a voucher number is pretty inaccurate. That is an average- some students, especially special education students, cost alot more. No private school is going to accept the harder to educate students, rather they will take the ones that cost less, causing the overall per pupil number to go up.