MERLD does exist!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

MERLD is pretty predictable and receptive language generally improves with age. You don't get MERLD but seem to feel the need to argue you do.

While receptive language improves on its own, MERLD doesn't just go away. It is lifelong issue.

Adolescents with whose receptive language issues are resolved show receptive language equal to peers at 16, but continue to show deficits in processing written language and phonological processing.
http://jslhr.pubs.asha.org/article.aspx?articleid=1781806&resultclick=1

Adults who had MERLD as children continue to show deficits in social language use in their early 20s (but do show more language improvement then people with ASDs, as a group)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1469-7610.00642/abstract

Receptive language disorders are a red flag for comorbid psychiatric problems in children.
http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567(09)66127-X/abstract

Adults who had language disorders as children show increased mental health problems in their 30s.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e73?variant=abstract&sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

You can find a study on anything if you look hard enough. One has nothing to do with another. Ok, we get it. You do not believe in language disorders and it has to be ASD.

Nice straw man argument. No one has to look "hard enough." There's a ton of research on this. It's everywhere. None of those studies say that language disorders don't exist. They say the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MERLD parents are treated horribly on these boards by a few ASD parents. You cannot even tell success stories without these parents chiming in that they will always have trouble...which is in no way a universal truth. They also put out so much information about MERLD. ..even some of the MERLD parents are doing this. MERLD can be a challenging diagnosis...or it can simply correct itself when a child's receptive language kicks in. I know a child who was labeled autistic and mentally retarded at age 7 because his receptive language was in the bottom 1 percent. He ended up going to college on a scholarship and is successfully employed in a demanding job and has a wife and family.

The treatments for MERLD and ASD are not the same. Many of us have found that out the hard way. And we have every right to tell our stories.

I also know of several women who realize they have married men on the spectrum. (I live in a town full of engineers.) These marriages are now imploding because while these very smart men were able to get through enough social communication to land a wife they can no longer maintain the relationships. So the challenges do not end for those on the spectrum either.

MERLD and ASD choose from the same bag of treatments. Your child didn't respond to certain treatments because of her/his specific needs, not because of the diagnosis. It makes much more sense to contrast something like DYSLEXIA and HYPERLEXIA which are neurological opposites based on MRIs. One requires the emphasis on decoding the other requires the emphasis on reading comprehension. The fact that you leap to saying you know autistic engineers who are divorcing because they cannot communicate well makes me think that if you can convince yourself MERLD is a world away from autism then your child will be fine. Just focus on what your child needs rather than making broad generalizations.

Actually no. MERLD kids do not get ABA, in less diagnosed. And, speech therapy would look very different for a child with autism with pragmatic issues speech therapy would look very different than a MERLD child. Yes, they are all technically in speech therapy, but what that therapy looks like is very different. My child did not respond at all to ABA. It was not even relevant to his needs. You are the one making the broad generalization with this statement.

MERLD kids don't "get ABA" b/c it doesn't fall under insurance coverage. Speech therapy doesn't look different. So what if your kid didn't respond to ABA. However, your it's MERLD not ASD obsession makes me think that you are either on the spectrum or have OCD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MERLD parents are treated horribly on these boards by a few ASD parents. You cannot even tell success stories without these parents chiming in that they will always have trouble...which is in no way a universal truth. They also put out so much information about MERLD. ..even some of the MERLD parents are doing this. MERLD can be a challenging diagnosis...or it can simply correct itself when a child's receptive language kicks in. I know a child who was labeled autistic and mentally retarded at age 7 because his receptive language was in the bottom 1 percent. He ended up going to college on a scholarship and is successfully employed in a demanding job and has a wife and family.

The treatments for MERLD and ASD are not the same. Many of us have found that out the hard way. And we have every right to tell our stories.

I also know of several women who realize they have married men on the spectrum. (I live in a town full of engineers.) These marriages are now imploding because while these very smart men were able to get through enough social communication to land a wife they can no longer maintain the relationships. So the challenges do not end for those on the spectrum either.

MERLD and ASD choose from the same bag of treatments. Your child didn't respond to certain treatments because of her/his specific needs, not because of the diagnosis. It makes much more sense to contrast something like DYSLEXIA and HYPERLEXIA which are neurological opposites based on MRIs. One requires the emphasis on decoding the other requires the emphasis on reading comprehension. The fact that you leap to saying you know autistic engineers who are divorcing because they cannot communicate well makes me think that if you can convince yourself MERLD is a world away from autism then your child will be fine. Just focus on what your child needs rather than making broad generalizations.

Actually no. MERLD kids do not get ABA, in less diagnosed. And, speech therapy would look very different for a child with autism with pragmatic issues speech therapy would look very different than a MERLD child. Yes, they are all technically in speech therapy, but what that therapy looks like is very different. My child did not respond at all to ABA. It was not even relevant to his needs. You are the one making the broad generalization with this statement.

MERLD kids don't "get ABA" b/c it doesn't fall under insurance coverage. Speech therapy doesn't look different. So what if your kid didn't respond to ABA. However, your it's MERLD not ASD obsession makes me think that you are either on the spectrum or have OCD.

Ah, OP. I get it. Your child was originally diagnosed as having ASD and you have a bone to pick with the world. How nice to take it out on parents with children you have described as nightmares. Seriously, you made me tear up thinking about my poor sweet 4 year old. Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MERLD parents are treated horribly on these boards by a few ASD parents. You cannot even tell success stories without these parents chiming in that they will always have trouble...which is in no way a universal truth. They also put out so much information about MERLD. ..even some of the MERLD parents are doing this. MERLD can be a challenging diagnosis...or it can simply correct itself when a child's receptive language kicks in. I know a child who was labeled autistic and mentally retarded at age 7 because his receptive language was in the bottom 1 percent. He ended up going to college on a scholarship and is successfully employed in a demanding job and has a wife and family.

The treatments for MERLD and ASD are not the same. Many of us have found that out the hard way. And we have every right to tell our stories.

I also know of several women who realize they have married men on the spectrum. (I live in a town full of engineers.) These marriages are now imploding because while these very smart men were able to get through enough social communication to land a wife they can no longer maintain the relationships. So the challenges do not end for those on the spectrum either.

MERLD and ASD choose from the same bag of treatments. Your child didn't respond to certain treatments because of her/his specific needs, not because of the diagnosis. It makes much more sense to contrast something like DYSLEXIA and HYPERLEXIA which are neurological opposites based on MRIs. One requires the emphasis on decoding the other requires the emphasis on reading comprehension. The fact that you leap to saying you know autistic engineers who are divorcing because they cannot communicate well makes me think that if you can convince yourself MERLD is a world away from autism then your child will be fine. Just focus on what your child needs rather than making broad generalizations.

Actually no. MERLD kids do not get ABA, in less diagnosed. And, speech therapy would look very different for a child with autism with pragmatic issues speech therapy would look very different than a MERLD child. Yes, they are all technically in speech therapy, but what that therapy looks like is very different. My child did not respond at all to ABA. It was not even relevant to his needs. You are the one making the broad generalization with this statement.

MERLD kids don't "get ABA" b/c it doesn't fall under insurance coverage. Speech therapy doesn't look different. So what if your kid didn't respond to ABA. However, your it's MERLD not ASD obsession makes me think that you are either on the spectrum or have OCD.

There are several MERLD posters along with the OP. Its interesting when someone doesn't say what you agree with you consistently resort to name calling and diagnosis. Actually, some MERLD kids are being referred for ABA. It really depends on your insurance. Ours is very generous and I know several other MERLD families doing it. Some like it, some don't. Speech therapy is very different depending on the child's needs and ability to participate. Speech therapy is going to look very different for a child who can focus and do a 30-45 minute session in a chair vs. one who cannot sit still with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Lucky you. Not all of us have provider choice in less we private pay (which we do sometimes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

This is where you lose me..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

They are not neurological the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

This is where you lose me..

Me, too.

The receptive and expressive language deficits come from the same neurological deficits, but kids with ASD have quite a bit more going on, and that causes other problems in addition to the language issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

This is where you lose me..

Me, too.

When I taught there were MERLD kids as well with "quite a bit going on." I posted before saying the MERLD kids were much more alike with ASD than any other diagnosis and it wasn't uncommon to have a child diagnosed with MERLD seem to have more symptoms of ASD than kids actually diagnosed with ASD. Only very mild MERLD presented differently. It reminds me of when people on here were saying PDD-NOS is much milder and has a better outcome than ASD. We had quite a few kids with PDD-NOS who could not handle a mainstream environment and who struggled academically and just as many kids with autism (high functioning) that were fine in mainstream environment with supports and performing above grade level in some areas. As I said before, in the school system we focused on the individual child's needs. Certain diagnoses varied more by doctor who made the diagnosis than by symptoms.

The receptive and expressive language deficits come from the same neurological deficits, but kids with ASD have quite a bit more going on, and that causes other problems in addition to the language issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I've only gone to really good providers - which is not happenstance but research and careful selection - but no provider has ever suggested my kid with language issues has ASD. Is that an issue usually when the issues are severe? Why are you so stressed about this, OP? If it is not ASD, your kid is not going to get that diagnosis. There are other indicators.

Same here. I posted up thread that my DD was diagnosed with MERLD and there has never been even the slightest suggestion of ASD. Also the idea that speech therapy is "the same" for both diagnoses is silly. I should hope that speech therapy is not "the same" for any two children, ever.

Btw, to the poster who is criticizing someone and saying "you sound like you have OCD" - that's not cool either. And you clearly have no idea what OCD actually is...

Yes, many kids with ASD get the same speech therapy techniques as those with ASD. You are right that it varies by individual, not by diagnosis. It would be silly for a child with a lisp to get speech therapy for a child who isn't verbal. It is not silly for some kids with ASD to get the same interventions as a child with MERLD. They are neurologically practically if not actually the same.

This is where you lose me..

Me, too.

When I taught there were MERLD kids as well with "quite a bit going on." I posted before saying the MERLD kids were much more alike with ASD than any other diagnosis and it wasn't uncommon to have a child diagnosed with MERLD seem to have more symptoms of ASD than kids actually diagnosed with ASD. Only very mild MERLD presented differently. It reminds me of when people on here were saying PDD-NOS is much milder and has a better outcome than ASD. We had quite a few kids with PDD-NOS who could not handle a mainstream environment and who struggled academically and just as many kids with autism (high functioning) that were fine in mainstream environment with supports and performing above grade level in some areas. As I said before, in the school system we focused on the individual child's needs. Certain diagnoses varied more by doctor who made the diagnosis than by symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.