Earning Well but Drowning in Debt...how to dig out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am just stuck on the fact that 2 children in daycare barely getting home by 6pm are in activities after that.

Even if they were not in 50k of debt I don't get this.

And a family that eats out (restaurant, take out, order in, whatever) 3-4 times per week is bleeding a serious amount of cash.

It's fascinating to me how obvious this is to everyone but the OP.

Op here. Yes, one child has music lesson after school pickup. The other activities are on weekends. And we don't eat out 3-4x week. We eat out or get carry out or pizza 1-2x week. Twice if DH is traveling and I am doing all the pickups. But that is something that can go. The music lessons cannot go bc of DCs commitment and dedication to it. This isn't a kid who grudgingly goes to piano lessons, but a kid whose music teacher at school flagged him as gifted, which has proven true thus far. Also the issue with camps.... Music camps aren't cheap.

You said 1-2x/week plus once more If DH is traveling plus one night you all go out to eat. That's 3-4. And you listed 3-4 activities like Tumble Gym and soccer (something like that) in your OP. If you can't be honest with yourself, this is not going to work. You can do this!
You haven't listed your budget yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not looking for a scolding but for advice. Ran up a lot of credit card debt on three maternity leaves that were largely unpaid - hard to pay daycare for two kids while on unpaid leave with a third. And we had to do that or else we would lose our spots. Plus the student loan debt. We have two Hondas 2012 and 2013. Minivan and SUV. Before that I was driving a 2001 Toyota that wouldn't fit three carsears so I had to sell it. Had it over 10 years. We cannot go down to one car because due to our work schedules DH and I alternate drop off and pickup from daycare and aftercare. We do not live in a huge home. In fact, we need a bigger house desperately. Our kids are doubled up in rooms and we are bursting at the seams. Same rowhouse we lived in when we got engaged! Mortgage is $3400/month. Student loans are $1500/month. Credit card bills. Car payments. Daycare and aftercare is $2450/month. We cannot get a nanny for an equivalent price (legally, anyway). I am a fed and the lack of pay increases hasn't helped. But at least job is stable. We do not take luxury vacations and rent expensive homes or take fancy trips. We go to the beach and stay with family. I hardly ever buy clothes and when I do it's at Target/TJ Max or even eBay. I buy kids clothes on eBay or at Target or old navy sale.

The thing is that we definitely aren't living the high life by any means. Our home is very modest and not suitable for the size of our family. Our vacations are budget vacations. Now I am dreading having to pay for summer camps for the older two kids. $450/week per kid for 10 weeks. Ugh.

The kids do a lot of activities. Music together. dance lessons. Soccer. Music lessons.

Here it is: you said " a lot of activities" and listed 4, your last line, and now are saying they are all on the weekend. You also said you had to pay for summer camp for the 2 older kids which you haven't explained since you also say the younger 2 are in daycare. You wouldn't need a summer camp for those two.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to make more money. If you're in debt, and you're not saving enough/putting towards the debt, and you aren't will to make lifestyle changes, you have to earn more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am just stuck on the fact that 2 children in daycare barely getting home by 6pm are in activities after that.

Even if they were not in 50k of debt I don't get this.

And a family that eats out (restaurant, take out, order in, whatever) 3-4 times per week is bleeding a serious amount of cash.

It's fascinating to me how obvious this is to everyone but the OP.

Op here. Yes, one child has music lesson after school pickup. The other activities are on weekends. And we don't eat out 3-4x week. We eat out or get carry out or pizza 1-2x week. Twice if DH is traveling and I am doing all the pickups. But that is something that can go. The music lessons cannot go bc of DCs commitment and dedication to it. This isn't a kid who grudgingly goes to piano lessons, but a kid whose music teacher at school flagged him as gifted, which has proven true thus far. Also the issue with camps.... Music camps aren't cheap.

You said 1-2x/week plus once more If DH is traveling plus one night you all go out to eat. That's 3-4. And you listed 3-4 activities like Tumble Gym and soccer (something like that) in your OP. If you can't be honest with yourself, this is not going to work. You can do this!
You haven't listed your budget yet.

We do not eat out 3-4x week. I wish we did. But we don't. We do eat out or get carryout or delivery 1-2x week. Typically 1x. Occasionally 2x if DH is traveling. Yes we do other activities. And I agree that the music together class and soccer/dance can go for the other two kids. It's the oldest kid who is the musician and takes the after school classes. And it would be unfair and cruel to take that away from him. The younger two I have no concerns about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am just stuck on the fact that 2 children in daycare barely getting home by 6pm are in activities after that.

Even if they were not in 50k of debt I don't get this.

And a family that eats out (restaurant, take out, order in, whatever) 3-4 times per week is bleeding a serious amount of cash.

It's fascinating to me how obvious this is to everyone but the OP.

Op here. Yes, one child has music lesson after school pickup. The other activities are on weekends. And we don't eat out 3-4x week. We eat out or get carry out or pizza 1-2x week. Twice if DH is traveling and I am doing all the pickups. But that is something that can go. The music lessons cannot go bc of DCs commitment and dedication to it. This isn't a kid who grudgingly goes to piano lessons, but a kid whose music teacher at school flagged him as gifted, which has proven true thus far. Also the issue with camps.... Music camps aren't cheap.

You said 1-2x/week plus once more If DH is traveling plus one night you all go out to eat. That's 3-4. And you listed 3-4 activities like Tumble Gym and soccer (something like that) in your OP. If you can't be honest with yourself, this is not going to work. You can do this!
You haven't listed your budget yet.

We do not eat out 3-4x week. I wish we did. But we don't. We do eat out or get carryout or delivery 1-2x week. Typically 1x. Occasionally 2x if DH is traveling. Yes we do other activities. And I agree that the music together class and soccer/dance can go for the other two kids. It's the oldest kid who is the musician and takes the after school classes. And it would be unfair and cruel to take that away from him. The younger two I have no concerns about.

So you've identified one change you can make. But you need to identify changes to add up to 250k. Get it ??

[Anonymous]

OP, the only long-term fix that will make a big dent is the mortgage. It's too high for your family. You need to be spending no more than $2000/month on the mortgage. There are two ways to get there - sacrifice space or location. Get a smaller place close-in to save commute or go out and deal with the commute. I know people in Manassas who take the train in and out daily.

I don't understand why your DH is so closed off to moving. It may not be ideal, but it's the most obvious solution. What is his plan for paying off the debt?

[Anonymous]

Yes I need camps for two oldest this summer. Oldest is in elementary. Middle is finishing preschool and is "graduating" from pre-k in the spring. Youngest has two years to go in daycare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if all apartments are small and in crappy school districts and your kids MUST do activities and you cannot possibly eat at home more and I assume you'd never ever consider getting rid of the dogs -- well, then keep on trucking. How is anyone supposed to help you?

BTW - there are apartments for rent in Arlington, nice 3 bedrooms costing about $1000/month less than your mortgage. I'm sure you wouldn't consider it, but don't assume anything that's walkable to the metro is going to be expensive and crappy.

Because paying rent instead of having a mortgage/write off and equity makes so much financial sense, right?

Wow -- you're even more financially illiterate than I thought. Let me guess - you read somewhere than rent is "wasted money" and equity is important, so you ran with it, right?? Yes a mortgage writeoff and equity are nice WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE CASH IN HAND FIRST. You know what's nicer -- not having debt looming over you -- which you do in the form of 200k in student debt + 50k in CC debt. Sit down and run the numbers -- if you understand them -- there is no way that your tax write off is exceeding your cost of debt. None. And equity -- you realize that it's illiquid, right? Are you planning to sell anytime soon? If not, that why does that equity matter to you right now -- when you need the cash to pay debt? Cash comes first, then pay off debt, then build equity. You seem to have jumped to step 3 while ignoring steps 1-2.

And btw - every kid in this area is labeled gifted at something. It's highly unlikely that your kid is the next Mozart. I'm not saying cut off music altogether, but you can cut out one of music lessons or music camp without totally hurting your gifted child's advancement in music. Reality is there are a LOT of kids living in smaller school districts, smaller towns etc. where there are no music lessons and pricey camps to be had. Guess what - if there are THAT talented, they make it in the music world simply by doing music classes in elementary/middle school, playing in the school band, rehearsing on their own for said band and via music class in school, and later if they want -- forming their own band. You seem to think that the only way to nurture a gifted child is to spend $$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the only long-term fix that will make a big dent is the mortgage. It's too high for your family. You need to be spending no more than $2000/month on the mortgage. There are two ways to get there - sacrifice space or location. Get a smaller place close-in to save commute or go out and deal with the commute. I know people in Manassas who take the train in and out daily.

I don't understand why your DH is so closed off to moving. It may not be ideal, but it's the most obvious solution. What is his plan for paying off the debt?

I agree with you. He doesn't want a longer commute. He sort of ignores the financial issues, to be honest. I am trying to figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am just stuck on the fact that 2 children in daycare barely getting home by 6pm are in activities after that.

Even if they were not in 50k of debt I don't get this.

And a family that eats out (restaurant, take out, order in, whatever) 3-4 times per week is bleeding a serious amount of cash.

It's fascinating to me how obvious this is to everyone but the OP.

Op here. Yes, one child has music lesson after school pickup. The other activities are on weekends. And we don't eat out 3-4x week. We eat out or get carry out or pizza 1-2x week. Twice if DH is traveling and I am doing all the pickups. But that is something that can go. The music lessons cannot go bc of DCs commitment and dedication to it. This isn't a kid who grudgingly goes to piano lessons, but a kid whose music teacher at school flagged him as gifted, which has proven true thus far. Also the issue with camps.... Music camps aren't cheap.

You said 1-2x/week plus once more If DH is traveling plus one night you all go out to eat. That's 3-4. And you listed 3-4 activities like Tumble Gym and soccer (something like that) in your OP. If you can't be honest with yourself, this is not going to work. You can do this!
You haven't listed your budget yet.

We do not eat out 3-4x week. I wish we did. But we don't. We do eat out or get carryout or delivery 1-2x week. Typically 1x. Occasionally 2x if DH is traveling. Yes we do other activities. And I agree that the music together class and soccer/dance can go for the other two kids. It's the oldest kid who is the musician and takes the after school classes. And it would be unfair and cruel to take that away from him. The younger two I have no concerns about.

And why do you need summer camp for 2 kids?
And don't you count going out to eat once a week? That counts! Especially with 5 people at a restaurant.

If you spend the time you used to spend on activities on shopping and meal prep, that's a start. You just have to funnel all that to credit card. I would deplete your emergency fund to 1 month, put it towards the CC, plus the amount you are saving from activities and ONLY doing 1 take out/orderin/restaurant meal per week and put that towards the CC.

And then like a PP said when that is gone snowball that towards the car. I woul seriously consider getting one car that is just a commuter car that won't fit 3 car seats. We have one car that is an efficient commuter car that fits 1 child and if we need to do a family thing we take the station wagon with 3rd row.
If you are alternating drop off and pick up you don't need 2 cars that fit 3 car seats. Doesn't everyone do this?

So pick a vehicle and get rid of it for a little commuter car.

What are the car payments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the only long-term fix that will make a big dent is the mortgage. It's too high for your family. You need to be spending no more than $2000/month on the mortgage. There are two ways to get there - sacrifice space or location. Get a smaller place close-in to save commute or go out and deal with the commute. I know people in Manassas who take the train in and out daily.

I don't understand why your DH is so closed off to moving. It may not be ideal, but it's the most obvious solution. What is his plan for paying off the debt?

I agree. The cuts have to come from the mortgage, childcare or cars. They need to be putting around 5-6k a month towards debt and savings. Isn't going to happen with their current mortgage and car payments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I need camps for two oldest this summer. Oldest is in elementary. Middle is finishing preschool and is "graduating" from pre-k in the spring. Youngest has two years to go in daycare.

No you don't NEED camps. You could easily get a college/community college kid to be your "nanny" for the summer and I promise you it'll be cheaper than specialized, "well run" camps for all the kids all over town all summer long.

[Anonymous]

Honestly with the life you want to lead -- a bigger home (which you obviously want since the current one is too small); kids in multiple activities; 2 cars; eating out WHILE still paying down a quarter million in debt without changing your life at all -- requires that you move to a smaller city.

How attached are you and DH to your jobs? Can he go be a gov't relations guy for a corporation in flyover country? What do you do for the feds? Is it a job you can find in private industry someplace else? Where are you guys from/where do you have ties to family/friends -- doesn't sound like it's DC.

[Anonymous]

OP,

It seems that you like living "paycheck to paycheck" as long as you are living in luxury.

In your case all the budgeting and frugality advice will not work for you because it mean changing your lifestyle, which is not an acceptable choice to you. So my advice will be to earn more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK - get a nanny who will also walk the dogs. The nanny will also watch the kids during the summer so you do not need to pay for camp. You can also get a nanny who helps get meals ready. So when you come home - the kids are already fed. (saving you another $100 a week).

Op here. This actually is a good idea.

This will not save you money. We have a nanny for two kids and pay on the books. We only need her for 40 hrs a week. It still costs more than 2 daycare slots. Our oldest also goes to pt preschool and some summer camps. Walking the dog and cooking for family are extras and not part of the average rates for nannies.

Looks like you should have paid down the cc debt before having more kids. At the least you should have saved money to pay for the lwop.

Let me guess even with the debt you still have a cleaning service. No way you can handle all that with 3 kids and ft job.

Have you at least put your cc debt into the calculators that show you how you will never pay off your debt?

You guys seem unwilling to face reality. Our hhi isn't that different from yours. We live in a close suburb of dc and have 2 kids. We have a 2008 Hyundai suv bought used and our camry is 1996! We have about 1.2m in 401k and about 50k in savings.