Emotional Labor - a good read for men AND women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

After we divorced I set up everyone's birthday in my smart-phone calendar and my smart phone does my Emotional Labor for me now, telling me when to send birthday cards. Much cheaper and more efficient.

Why did you make your wife keep track of all the birthdays until you got divorced? Why didn't you do that for yourself since you are a fully grown adult man with a brain and your own smartphone? How come DIVORCE was the impetus you needed to take that shit off your wife's To Do list?

(PS: women use smartphone calendars, too. We are not stupid.)

+1. understand that you warned your wife about your mother, but why were you letting your wife attend to all those other relationships for you? What kind of person would allow others to take on burdens that tjey should be shouldering themselves?

For me, this is a kind of plantation-master mentality - the guy who believes that others should be performing free labor for him, or to put it in the best possible light - is willing to accept the inpaid labor of others even if he doesn't believe he is entitled to it.

Bwahahaha...I would have taken care of all these things w/o my wife doing it. I wouldn't have done it to her satisfaction, but I would have taken care of it. I didn't "make her do" anything. She chose to. She decided that my way wasn't good enough, and that's fine, but you don't get to volunteer and then complain about being "forced". This is the broken thinking behind all this "emotional labor" business. And yes, it's on you to look at his apartment before you marry him, and whether or not he can do his own laundry, and wipe his own ass. Caveat Emptor.

My 2nd wife started to try to pull this nonsense our second Christmas married - she was stressed out about presents (because just like me, she had procrastinated with her shopping) - and she started bitching at me for not telling her what to buy for my family. I was like WHOA. Stop that noise NOW. Who asked you to order, wrap and deliver presents for my family? Who has been doing that since we met? When did you hear me badgering you about how late it had gotten and no Christmas presents yet for your family?

I told her to worry about her family, and I would worry about mine. We both got it done, pretty last minute, but you know what? It worked out just fine. The problem with this "Emotional Labor" is that you are putting your nose into someone else's business where it doesn't belong, and when they didn't ask you to, and then getting resentful that they don't appreciate it.

Sure, women have smart phones with calendars too...the point being that the remainder of the "emotional labor" is entirely optional and of your own choosing. I manage to send birthday cards without being emotionally drained and taxed by the experience of buying one and putting it in the mail. It probably would be more draining if I insisted on doing it for every single extended family member, but I don't - I worry about doing it for the relationships that are actually that important to me.

There are two completely separate discussions going on here, and every time the question of appropriate emotional and relationship boundaries is raised, all those complaining about "emotional labor" start talking about childcare and physical labor. I'm a man, and I am the "primary parent", largely because my DW's job takes her out of town overnight a fair bit, and because my job is flexible for appointments and the like. We divide, pretty evenly, the rest of the child care. I most definitely agree that husbands who sit on their asses and expect women to do 90% of the domestic work - childcare, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. - are lame slackers and deserve to get a heaping of crap. But that is not "emotional labor". The deliberate conflation of these things into some extra-special class of aggrievance is disingenuous and self-serving martyrdom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

After we divorced I set up everyone's birthday in my smart-phone calendar and my smart phone does my Emotional Labor for me now, telling me when to send birthday cards. Much cheaper and more efficient.

Why did you make your wife keep track of all the birthdays until you got divorced? Why didn't you do that for yourself since you are a fully grown adult man with a brain and your own smartphone? How come DIVORCE was the impetus you needed to take that shit off your wife's To Do list?

(PS: women use smartphone calendars, too. We are not stupid.)

+1. understand that you warned your wife about your mother, but why were you letting your wife attend to all those other relationships for you? What kind of person would allow others to take on burdens that tjey should be shouldering themselves?

For me, this is a kind of plantation-master mentality - the guy who believes that others should be performing free labor for him, or to put it in the best possible light - is willing to accept the inpaid labor of others even if he doesn't believe he is entitled to it.

Bwahahaha...I would have taken care of all these things w/o my wife doing it. I wouldn't have done it to her satisfaction, but I would have taken care of it. I didn't "make her do" anything. She chose to. She decided that my way wasn't good enough, and that's fine, but you don't get to volunteer and then complain about being "forced". This is the broken thinking behind all this "emotional labor" business. And yes, it's on you to look at his apartment before you marry him, and whether or not he can do his own laundry, and wipe his own ass. Caveat Emptor.

My 2nd wife started to try to pull this nonsense our second Christmas married - she was stressed out about presents (because just like me, she had procrastinated with her shopping) - and she started bitching at me for not telling her what to buy for my family. I was like WHOA. Stop that noise NOW. Who asked you to order, wrap and deliver presents for my family? Who has been doing that since we met? When did you hear me badgering you about how late it had gotten and no Christmas presents yet for your family?

I told her to worry about her family, and I would worry about mine. We both got it done, pretty last minute, but you know what? It worked out just fine. The problem with this "Emotional Labor" is that you are putting your nose into someone else's business where it doesn't belong, and when they didn't ask you to, and then getting resentful that they don't appreciate it.

Sure, women have smart phones with calendars too...the point being that the remainder of the "emotional labor" is entirely optional and of your own choosing. I manage to send birthday cards without being emotionally drained and taxed by the experience of buying one and putting it in the mail. It probably would be more draining if I insisted on doing it for every single extended family member, but I don't - I worry about doing it for the relationships that are actually that important to me.

There are two completely separate discussions going on here, and every time the question of appropriate emotional and relationship boundaries is raised, all those complaining about "emotional labor" start talking about childcare and physical labor. I'm a man, and I am the "primary parent", largely because my DW's job takes her out of town overnight a fair bit, and because my job is flexible for appointments and the like. We divide, pretty evenly, the rest of the child care. I most definitely agree that husbands who sit on their asses and expect women to do 90% of the domestic work - childcare, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc. - are lame slackers and deserve to get a heaping of crap. But that is not "emotional labor". The deliberate conflation of these things into some extra-special class of aggrievance is disingenuous and self-serving martyrdom.

"Woulda, coulda, shoulda..." they say.

So glad you learned your lesson about emotional labor from your failed first marriage and made it clear to wife #2 that you would be responsible for your own relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Why did the author allow for all those one sided friendships with male friends? Why do DCUMers let their husbands be shitty coparents?

Because the truth is one person can't *make* another person do anything. We *let* them be shitty parents because that's what they are, and even if we did have the time and energy to teach them to be better parents, it wouldn't work.

Also, the divided energy of having to build awareness in a spouse while parenting the children and working...! Come on. It's too much.

It's like "allowing" for sexism, racism, or whatnot. I didn't "allow for any of this. It's what we're faced with.

You tolerate and allow this to continue after you're faced with it. It is a choice. Once you make your choices, you don't get to blame others for them.

Well, THAT'S bullshit. The blame lies with the person doing the wrong, not the person who is wronged. That's like saying "hey you let that person do that racist/sexist thing to you, what's wrong with you?"

Wake up!

Um no. It's not about blame at all. But in your terms, staying with a person who piles shit on you day in and day out and doing nothing about it is like saying to that racist/sexist: Thank you, sir, may I have another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not saying women shouldn't work with their husbands to make this more equitable. But I don't see how it is a woman's fault if her husband is unwilling to appreciate or do emotional labor. If he is the one neglecting the duty, it's his fault. Just like if she is failing at some aspect of their relationship even though he is trying to work with her to get better at it, that's on her.

It is not. Why are some of you so hung up on assigning blame? If someone is neglecting a duty, you should start with asking yourself if it's a duty. Keeping track of extended family's birthdays is not your duty. And feeding the baby is not emotional labor. It's a freaking chore, and both partners should be adults about dividing their chores equitably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex-wife used to do a lot of "emotional labor" for me, even though I warned her it was a bad idea. She was resentful and nagged me for years about improving my relationship with my mother, and sided with my mother in guilting me about things...that is, until my mother pulled one of her manipulative passive-aggressive moves on my ex-wife. It took her a decade of Emotional Labor to learn the hard way why I kept my distance...all I could say was, "I tried to warn you".

"Woulda, coulda, shoulda..." they say.

So glad you learned your lesson about emotional labor from your failed first marriage and made it clear to wife #2 that you would be responsible for your own relationships.

You are rather bitter, nasty and resentful, aren't you? Or maybe just lacking reading comprehension? Just determined that somehow it's all my fault.

My ex-wife is the one who didn't learn. I knew how to and asked her to let me manage my own relationships - she ignored that because she "cared more" and she "knew what was good for me"...and oh, what was that other line, "you'll thank me later for pushing you to do this". Yes, my first marriage failed because, largely, my ex-wife wasn't able to have healthy give-and-take and boundaries. Instead she was a controlling, insecure neurotic - and did a remarkable job of playing the martyr. I did learn one thing: what to avoid...like the plague. And that starts with martyrs. Grow up and take some responsibility for your own emotions. If your husband is such an ass, dump him, don't just whinge about it.

And don't talk about how the kid changes all that - if your husband is that lame, it's better for your kid(s), male or female, to grow up seeing that that kind of behavior isn't acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Just for anyone following this thread and struggling with what is meant by "emotional labor", Wikipedia has a pretty nice synopsis of the main usage of the term. It turns out the etymology is purely economic, and while I do think that's a very valuable notion of work for which people are compensated, it does raise the question: is your relationship transactional? What other aspects of it are transactional?