Marion Barry has passed away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the "love-fest" for Barry over yet? Or is criticism still censored?

The moderator suggested a brief moratorium. It is called social etiquette not censorship. You should try it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know much about Barry so I'm not going to vilify or glorify his life, but I do think that this attitude that we must never speak ill of the dead is damaging and irresponsible. Of course, it should be constructive and not name calling, but people don't get a pass on any harm they caused simply because they're dead. We should not be so quick to forget the past lest we repeat it.

I agree. But in the case of this thread, it went far beyond an "attitude" towards what one should or shouldn't do.

All criticism was censored. Hopefully, freedom of expression has been restored.

Stop acting like this is violating your constitutional rights. This is Jeff's site and he has every right to remove every thread that's not about BMWs if he so chooses.

I'm the original PP and I wasn't specifically referring to this forum. I think people who protect the dead and the media who gloss over history are dangerous. Of course Jeff can do what he likes, but I suspect if there's too much censoring going on then his business will take a hit.

"Dangerous" for not speaking ill of the dead, for one day?? Sorry, but you jumped the shark on that one. Rolling it up under "gloss over history" does not save you, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know much about Barry so I'm not going to vilify or glorify his life, but I do think that this attitude that we must never speak ill of the dead is damaging and irresponsible. Of course, it should be constructive and not name calling, but people don't get a pass on any harm they caused simply because they're dead. We should not be so quick to forget the past lest we repeat it.

I agree. But in the case of this thread, it went far beyond an "attitude" towards what one should or shouldn't do.

All criticism was censored. Hopefully, freedom of expression has been restored.

I find a substantial amount of criticism in the posts that preceded this one. I think the word you are looking for is snark. You want to be snarky about it. That is a matter of tone, not content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those big buildings you see lining Pennsylvania Ave are attributable to Marion Barry. In many ways, there could not have been an Anthony Williams had there not first been a Marion Barry.

It has always been sad to me that the second half of his life will overshadow the first. A cautionary tale about the dangers of believing your own press and surrounding yourself with yes men.

Actually, that is not factually correct. They were the result of the federal Pennsylvania Ave Development Corp. But being a good politician (vs a good mayor) Barry took the credit anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the "love-fest" for Barry over yet? Or is criticism still censored?

The current PC term that is being used about Barry is "complicated." There obviously are more descriptive characterizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the "love-fest" for Barry over yet? Or is criticism still censored?

The moderator suggested a brief moratorium. It is called social etiquette not censorship. You should try it.

I thought we preferred the term "moderation" in place of "censorship."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the summer jobs program was a good initiative, but you need more than that to be a good mayor.

How about completely transforming the Georgetown waterfront?

And the vision to revitalize burnt out U Street, Shaw. He fought to put the new District building there, believing that it would spur development. He was right.

He was also the catalyst that helped spur a revitalize downtown DC with the help of Abe Pollen. He gave the land and Pollen built the arena with the intent of bringing back downtown. It is now a bustling Gallery Place. It used to be a dead zone and the only thing there was WMATA headquarters, the subway, liquor store(s), and the homeless sleeping on grates. There were no restaraunts, stores, high rise apartments, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Are you going to censor me again Jeff?

You did not censor people who said horrible things here when Margaret Thatcher died. And only I chided those who seem to be attached to the disreputable among us (not my exact words but i said nothing foul of offensive). For at the end of the day Marion Barry was a public figure and and deserves public scrutiny. Yet during his life time to offer scrutiny was to risk being libeled a racist by many who post here. And now in death you won't even allow the discussion. I won't play the hagiography game but if you censor this its far worse than hagiography you are playing at. This is the Political Discussion Forum Jeff, please allow the discourse.

I just read the Margaret Thatcher thread. I fail to see anything "horrible" in it. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/299723.page This, despite the fact that she is a foreign political figure, not American much less DC's former mayor.

Maybe you could point out what you think is worthy of deletion for being "horrible". I don't think you are showing much perspective here.

That an entire thread is a debate about her politics and whether it was good or bad for the UK and the world. Plenty of negative comments about her. If Jeff is deleting anything negative about Barry in this, he's showing a double standard.

This is not the UK and the world. This is DC, and many of its people are grieving.

The white yuppies of DC are grieving? Really?

Councilman Grosso is a native Washingtonian. He was on WPGC talking about what he will miss about Barry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to a complete and utter lack of class, no one beats Marion Barry. He is a public figure. He is dead.

As you said, he's dead. Nothing you can say will change him. You can only affect the living. On days like this you have the opportunity to make choices: do you want to add to the anger and hatred in this city or do you want to add to the compasion and understanding. Remember, if you are a DC resident, you get to live with the results of your own actions.

So sanctimonious. He was a low life felon. If you want to change that you have a LOT of editing to do. no need to elevate him -- he is what he is.

Whatever you say about Barry, he lived a rich and full life wherein he actually helped people. He made a difference. And unlike you, he will be remembered, good and bad. You PP just won't be remembered at all. He was made of flesh and bones and imperfect, but he made a difference. You, NOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Let me give a few of my own thoughts on the passing of Marion Barry. When I was a student at Georgetown University, Barry introduced Ronald Reagan who had come to the University to launch its bicentennial celebration. It was a beautiful day with lots of sun and a moderate temperature. Noting the weather, Barry asked, "will you give me credit for the sun? I know you all blame me for the snow." That was in reference to DC being buried under nearly 2 ft. of snow while Barry was in southern California attending the Super Bowl.

Barry was correct that his critics often focused on the negative while seeing the positive as natural or inevitable. He was quickly blamed for anything that went wrong, but credit for successes was frequently placed elsewhere. At the same time, to both Barry and his defenders, his successes were of such a magnitude that they excused any failures. Barry knew that those in the crowd at Georgetown did not blame him for the snow. We blamed him for his administration's failure to remove the snow. We saw Barry as a source of incompetence and corruption. Politics, especially local politics, is very much a situation of "what have you done for me lately?" and, lately, Barry hadn't done much good for us at all.

But, for others, Barry had done a lot. He had done life-changing things. However, there was no way that someone like me -- a young university student in only my second year of living in DC -- could understand the importance of those things. Frankly, I didn't even know about them. I would learn later that Barry had started a summer job program for youth. In the environment in which I grew up, youth had no problem finding summer employment. I couldn't understand why such a program was important. Then, I would start hearing a phrase that would become almost synonymous with "native Washingtonian" and that was "Marion Barry got me my first job". I think it is very important -- especially after decades of black people being associated with welfare -- that Barry was a proponent of work. He didn't ask for handouts, he asked for -- demanded, in fact -- jobs. Barry didn't create Washington, DC's middle class. But, he sure as hell helped create it and his efforts were -- as I said -- life-changing for many people. When someone has changed your life for the better, it is natural and understandable that you will forgive them their faults. Not surprisingly, therefore, there is another phrase I've heard frequently over the past few years, "That's our Barry". Warts and all, Barry made the kind of positive impact on others of which few can ever dream.

A lot more can be said about Barry, both good and bad. But, on this day, I am glad that I came to understand that a first job and a better lot in life is a much more important than a few days of snowed-in streets. So, on this day, Mr. Mayor, I am giving you credit for the sun.

As with so many things about Barry's life, the jobs he created are a complicated issue. First off, Jeff, you're conflating the summer jobs program with the integration of DC municipal jobs and the creation of the black middle class. The summer jobs program, which I believe still exists today, didn't create anything - it was a payoff to give teenagers something to do in the summer time, and a way to buy their parents' (and the teen' future) votes. Calling it a jobs program is even a bit of a stretch, since not a lot of work got done. That didn't create any middle class.

As for the municipal jobs that did create the black middle class, he deserves a huge amount of credit for making those jobs available to all. But he then turned the DC government into a jobs program (that, coincidently, also served as a campaign tool). While that may have helped some people in the short term (and secured his reelection, and mayor for life status) it wasn't a sustainable long-term goal.

Barry was an extraordinary civil rights figure who saw the ways in which the existing power structure oppressed poor minorities, and decided to use the same tactics to further his cause (and his career). But, he overreached, and became that which he was fighting against. It is sad that he will be remembered for his personal shortcomings rather than his (complicated, and not unblemished) political career.

I received my first job through the youth program. I picked up trash, and we picke up a lot of trash. A lot of the trash came from people with MD and VA tags throwing their McDonald bags out of their car windows as they drove through the city.

[Anonymous]

"I received my first job through the youth program. I picked up trash, and we picke up a lot of trash. A lot of the trash came from people with MD and VA tags throwing their McDonald bags out of their car windows as they drove through the city."

Me too, PP. I lived in upper NW and went to Wilson HS, not Ward 8, and all my friends applied for jobs in the Mayor's Youth Leadership Institute. I worked behind a desk at a hotel. We were thrilled to have the opportunity. I am now 50 years old, a successful lawyer, and I still remember my first job in the MYLI. I am sure I am not the only one. For that alone, I am grateful to Mayor Barry. I want to remember him for all the good things he did for the city. I bet most of the people criticizing him on this forum don't even live in DC.

[Anonymous]

Joe DiGenova's (former federal prosecutor) P.O.V. on the radio this morning was refreshing. It offered some backbone to the hagiographic lovefest for the founding father of institutionalized (and PROUD! of it) corruption and graft in DC. It's taken decades for the city to recover from his influence, but meanwhile we're still a joke to the rest of America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to censor me again Jeff?

You did not censor people who said horrible things here when Margaret Thatcher died. And only I chided those who seem to be attached to the disreputable among us (not my exact words but i said nothing foul of offensive). For at the end of the day Marion Barry was a public figure and and deserves public scrutiny. Yet during his life time to offer scrutiny was to risk being libeled a racist by many who post here. And now in death you won't even allow the discussion. I won't play the hagiography game but if you censor this its far worse than hagiography you are playing at. This is the Political Discussion Forum Jeff, please allow the discourse.

I just read the Margaret Thatcher thread. I fail to see anything "horrible" in it. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/299723.page This, despite the fact that she is a foreign political figure, not American much less DC's former mayor.

Maybe you could point out what you think is worthy of deletion for being "horrible". I don't think you are showing much perspective here.

That an entire thread is a debate about her politics and whether it was good or bad for the UK and the world. Plenty of negative comments about her. If Jeff is deleting anything negative about Barry in this, he's showing a double standard.

This is not the UK and the world. This is DC, and many of its people are grieving.

The white yuppies of DC are grieving? Really?

Councilman Grosso is a native Washingtonian. He was on WPGC talking about what he will miss about Barry.

NP to this particular line of conversation and it's indisputable that Margaret Thatcher helped change the world for the better.

Marion Barry helped improve some people's lives, but he also cemented the idea that cities run by African-Americans are corrupt, graft-riddled, and mismanaged to the point of incompetence. DC has decades of corruption to work through in its current councilmembers (and new Mayor - Barry supported the already tainted Bowser). It's a legacy who's time has gone. Thankfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to censor me again Jeff?

You did not censor people who said horrible things here when Margaret Thatcher died. And only I chided those who seem to be attached to the disreputable among us (not my exact words but i said nothing foul of offensive). For at the end of the day Marion Barry was a public figure and and deserves public scrutiny. Yet during his life time to offer scrutiny was to risk being libeled a racist by many who post here. And now in death you won't even allow the discussion. I won't play the hagiography game but if you censor this its far worse than hagiography you are playing at. This is the Political Discussion Forum Jeff, please allow the discourse.

I just read the Margaret Thatcher thread. I fail to see anything "horrible" in it. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/299723.page This, despite the fact that she is a foreign political figure, not American much less DC's former mayor.

Maybe you could point out what you think is worthy of deletion for being "horrible". I don't think you are showing much perspective here.

That an entire thread is a debate about her politics and whether it was good or bad for the UK and the world. Plenty of negative comments about her. If Jeff is deleting anything negative about Barry in this, he's showing a double standard.

This is not the UK and the world. This is DC, and many of its people are grieving.

The white yuppies of DC are grieving? Really?

Councilman Grosso is a native Washingtonian. He was on WPGC talking about what he will miss about Barry.

NP to this particular line of conversation and it's indisputable that Margaret Thatcher helped change the world for the better.

Marion Barry helped improve some people's lives, but he also cemented the idea that cities run by African-Americans are corrupt, graft-riddled, and mismanaged to the point of incompetence. DC has decades of corruption to work through in its current councilmembers (and new Mayor - Barry supported the already tainted Bowser). It's a legacy who's time has gone. Thankfully.

WTF cares about MT at this time. How long has she been dead? Move to the UK, or I forgot they hate her in the UK.

[Anonymous]

Barry's life was a constant struggle between doing good and fighting personal demons. It was nearly Shakespearean at times. I would definitely pay to watch a biopic of his life. So, who should play Marion Barry on the big screen?