UCSD Shooting Suspect had autism -just what we need

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a huge difference between the school staff that says your child can learn nothing and the staff that thinks your child is of average intelligence.

True. But the problem either way is threefold, in my experience:

1. School staff are often wrong.
2. The conclusion that a child is of average intelligence is often accompanied by staff ignoring or downplaying a child's academic gifts or potential.
3. School staff hyperfocuses on the behavioral, social or emotional needs or problems to the exclusion of the academic needs.

Balance is important. Listening to parents is important. An adversarial relationship between school and parents doesn't start with the parent coming in demanding things. It starts with a school that acts in its own best interests and not those of the child.

This. We were told DS could not be in a GT LD class b/c "they don't have kids with those [impulsive] behaviors in THAT class."

What extra supports do you feel your child would have needed to have succeeded in that class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of someone who is on the spectrum, all I will say is that if time and time again these kids are on the spectrum, maybe it really is time to think a bit more on it.

Not saying that asperger's makes you violent. Not at all, but it often does make you misread social clues, and personally, I don't want people who are prone to misread clues having access to deadly weapons.

And what about people who don't fit the criteria for AS but misread social cues? What about people with bad tempers? What about people with PTSD because of their service in the military? What about bigots?

I hate that we have so many guns in our country but lets not focus on a group (in which this shooter didn't belong, by the way. He didn't have AS) that is far, far more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators.

I swore I wouldn't respond to this thread. Its about the ugliest thing I've seen on DCUM, some kind of open invitation to attack parents of kids with SN. None of you would survive a day in our shoes, by the way. Somehow this idea that we want to take care of our kids, who need a lot more care than yours, has been translated into a sense of entitlement. You think we're entitled? Would you like to trade places?

I am one of the previous posters who you don't like. I DO have a "special needs" entitled kid. Thank you. And I'm old enough AND honest enough (and maybe even smart enough) to know how I unintentionally contributed to the situation.

There. I SAID it.

I agree with whoever said that posters do indeed "project" from their own experiences. Don't you expect that on this forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the school psychologists at an Annual review IEP meeting can't interpret the tests you mention?

My school's psychologist doesn't even understand that the WAIS is not the WISC. He has a master's degree. He hasn't had any classes in psychological measurements. He's a good counselor, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple months ago, I had a conversation with the mother of one of my students with ASD. She said that her daughter with HFA was being ostracized by the NT girls in class. I promised to discretely observe. I found that the other students WERE reluctant to work with the girl. It seemed in large part because of her approach to group tasks. She was rigid in her thinking and not open to, let alone appreciative of the ideas contributed by others. This is not how most NT girls approach group work.

This same rigidity of thinking complicates social life for Aspies. Don't want to always talk about a certain anime series, you must not like me. There's an awkward pause after I make a joke, you're bullying me.

I feel for the parents and therapist of this young man. Sounds like they were working hard to help him.

ITA. The rigidity can also make social skills training, or therapy, a challenge.

Alternatively, you can use the rigidity to your advantage. You can run a lot of social situations as scripts or algorithms. If you teach those scripts and algorithms, kids with ASDs can use them. They're still a bit odd, but they're more functional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a huge difference between the school staff that says your child can learn nothing and the staff that thinks your child is of average intelligence.

True. But the problem either way is threefold, in my experience:

1. School staff are often wrong.
2. The conclusion that a child is of average intelligence is often accompanied by staff ignoring or downplaying a child's academic gifts or potential.
3. School staff hyperfocuses on the behavioral, social or emotional needs or problems to the exclusion of the academic needs.

Balance is important. Listening to parents is important. An adversarial relationship between school and parents doesn't start with the parent coming in demanding things. It starts with a school that acts in its own best interests and not those of the child.

This. We were told DS could not be in a GT LD class b/c "they don't have kids with those [impulsive] behaviors in THAT class."

What extra supports do you feel your child would have needed to have succeeded in that class?

I am not the poster to whom your question is addressed. But I would consider a 1:1 aide, some OT-related modifications (a fidget, for instance), or even a desk that allows the child to stand instead of sitting. It depends on the impulsive behaviors and their cause or trigger. The issue becomes the amount of independence and level of organization that is expected of a GT class participant. Some schools are willing to accommodate and give it a try. Others get caught up in what such a class is "supposed" to be and reject the idea outright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple months ago, I had a conversation with the mother of one of my students with ASD. She said that her daughter with HFA was being ostracized by the NT girls in class. I promised to discretely observe. I found that the other students WERE reluctant to work with the girl. It seemed in large part because of her approach to group tasks. She was rigid in her thinking and not open to, let alone appreciative of the ideas contributed by others. This is not how most NT girls approach group work.

This same rigidity of thinking complicates social life for Aspies. Don't want to always talk about a certain anime series, you must not like me. There's an awkward pause after I make a joke, you're bullying me.

I feel for the parents and therapist of this young man. Sounds like they were working hard to help him.

ITA. The rigidity can also make social skills training, or therapy, a challenge.

Alternatively, you can use the rigidity to your advantage. You can run a lot of social situations as scripts or algorithms. If you teach those scripts and algorithms, kids with ASDs can use them. They're still a bit odd, but they're more functional.

I like this idea. Do you know if there is a website with scripted social stories for middle or high schoolers that a parent can use?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a huge difference between the school staff that says your child can learn nothing and the staff that thinks your child is of average intelligence.

True. But the problem either way is threefold, in my experience:

1. School staff are often wrong.
2. The conclusion that a child is of average intelligence is often accompanied by staff ignoring or downplaying a child's academic gifts or potential.
3. School staff hyperfocuses on the behavioral, social or emotional needs or problems to the exclusion of the academic needs.

Balance is important. Listening to parents is important. An adversarial relationship between school and parents doesn't start with the parent coming in demanding things. It starts with a school that acts in its own best interests and not those of the child.

This. We were told DS could not be in a GT LD class b/c "they don't have kids with those [impulsive] behaviors in THAT class."

What extra supports do you feel your child would have needed to have succeeded in that class?

I am not the poster to whom your question is addressed. But I would consider a 1:1 aide, some OT-related modifications (a fidget, for instance), or even a desk that allows the child to stand instead of sitting. It depends on the impulsive behaviors and their cause or trigger. The issue becomes the amount of independence and level of organization that is expected of a GT class participant. Some schools are willing to accommodate and give it a try. Others get caught up in what such a class is "supposed" to be and reject the idea outright.

Very few kids get a 1:1 aid nowadays unless they are severely disabled and schools will not provide a 1:1 aide for behavioral, social or emotional needs in a mainstream classroom or even a gifted program.

I agree a "balance" has to be found. It's not all about IQ for gifted classes but it's also about how well the child can function in the class and their level of independence and organization.

I had a classmate in high school at a test-in NYC magnet school who was diagnosed with schizophrenia. While his testing clearly indicated he could do the work, he wasn't able to function in school due to his mental illness - or his behavioral, social and emotional needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a huge difference between the school staff that says your child can learn nothing and the staff that thinks your child is of average intelligence.

True. But the problem either way is threefold, in my experience:

1. School staff are often wrong.
2. The conclusion that a child is of average intelligence is often accompanied by staff ignoring or downplaying a child's academic gifts or potential.
3. School staff hyperfocuses on the behavioral, social or emotional needs or problems to the exclusion of the academic needs.

Balance is important. Listening to parents is important. An adversarial relationship between school and parents doesn't start with the parent coming in demanding things. It starts with a school that acts in its own best interests and not those of the child.

This. We were told DS could not be in a GT LD class b/c "they don't have kids with those [impulsive] behaviors in THAT class."

What extra supports do you feel your child would have needed to have succeeded in that class?

Class size of 28 down to 7-8 would have been great for starters.
Smaller class would have helped with prompting to stay focused and on track.
Smaller class of kids who ask questions (not just one question every other day in math for instance), maybe a few questions, would have been tolerated vs. a teacher who wanted to knock DS back to on-grade level math (we and school agreed he was well beyond in math) because she didn't like dealing with him.
Exercise or stretching break might have been permitted because it would not have been "unfair" like what the teacher in the regular 25-30 kids classroom felt.
Fidgets. Among 7-8 other different learners one does not stand out, or get made fun of or ostracized.
Environment matters. I learned just fine in a 30 kid filled classroom, but it is not for everyone. A child who tests well, from everyone's perspective, deserves the opportunity to do more than just "get by" because he or she cannot function in a full bustling classroom.
Perhaps if DS was given the opportunity, with an appropriate 504 or IEP, it might have worked or perhaps not. But due to the "we cannot see beyond current behavior" the answer was flat no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple months ago, I had a conversation with the mother of one of my students with ASD. She said that her daughter with HFA was being ostracized by the NT girls in class. I promised to discretely observe. I found that the other students WERE reluctant to work with the girl. It seemed in large part because of her approach to group tasks. She was rigid in her thinking and not open to, let alone appreciative of the ideas contributed by others. This is not how most NT girls approach group work.

This same rigidity of thinking complicates social life for Aspies. Don't want to always talk about a certain anime series, you must not like me. There's an awkward pause after I make a joke, you're bullying me.

I feel for the parents and therapist of this young man. Sounds like they were working hard to help him.

ITA. The rigidity can also make social skills training, or therapy, a challenge.

Alternatively, you can use the rigidity to your advantage. You can run a lot of social situations as scripts or algorithms. If you teach those scripts and algorithms, kids with ASDs can use them. They're still a bit odd, but they're more functional.

I like this idea. Do you know if there is a website with scripted social stories for middle or high schoolers that a parent can use?

I just scripted them myself on an as needed basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple months ago, I had a conversation with the mother of one of my students with ASD. She said that her daughter with HFA was being ostracized by the NT girls in class. I promised to discretely observe. I found that the other students WERE reluctant to work with the girl. It seemed in large part because of her approach to group tasks. She was rigid in her thinking and not open to, let alone appreciative of the ideas contributed by others. This is not how most NT girls approach group work.

This same rigidity of thinking complicates social life for Aspies. Don't want to always talk about a certain anime series, you must not like me. There's an awkward pause after I make a joke, you're bullying me.

I feel for the parents and therapist of this young man. Sounds like they were working hard to help him.

ITA. The rigidity can also make social skills training, or therapy, a challenge.

Alternatively, you can use the rigidity to your advantage. You can run a lot of social situations as scripts or algorithms. If you teach those scripts and algorithms, kids with ASDs can use them. They're still a bit odd, but they're more functional.

I like this idea. Do you know if there is a website with scripted social stories for middle or high schoolers that a parent can use?

I just scripted them myself on an as needed basis.

+1

The Social Skills Picture Book also is helpful.

[Anonymous]

I hate to see the vitriolic starting rise again.

If there is one class that most young children really might benefit from today, it would be some sort of a health and wellness class in which topics dealing with mental health well-being as well as physical could be blended. Also, there would be units on social skills, acceptance of differences and just plain manners. No one would be singled out for special classes in this area and perhaps the entire class would mix a bit better. I could see it being n 20 minute chunks of time which a classroom teacher might work in as one sees fit with certain expectations of topics being covered each semester.

I still say it is clear that we are missing something in the education of and the socialization of boys. And let's face it, it just becomes a lot harder for a boy with an attitude or behavior to get by as one gets bigger and older as opposed to a girl.

Resource Idea
In our area of Virginia, the Community Services Board is still doing the 8-hour training for Mental Health First Aid, which is likened to as CPR for physical conditions. There is a web site one can go to find classes in one's area. ***However, my suggestion is that parents should make this a funding request for every middle and high school PTA/PTO program next year to be offered to staff and parents perhaps in smaller chunks of time. MH issues so often arise in high school and college years and families and others who work with teens need to learn to recognize the early warning sighs of change and know how to help make contacts for services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the only people in the IEP meeting who can correctly interpret the tests that would show that your child with ASD is a genius are you and DC's other parent?

Interesting.

You can invite the person who administered the test to the meeting as an educational advocate. Have you tried that?

I did! Brought the IEP team to their knees. It was awesome!!!

Walked out with everything we wanted. They shut their fucking mouths and got with the program after that.

Wow. Have you any idea how you sound?

Like a parent who got their child what they needed, and wasn't gullible enough to fall for the IEP team's "expertise."

So you are an expert in all of these services, then? What are your academic credentials? You sound like a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the only people in the IEP meeting who can correctly interpret the tests that would show that your child with ASD is a genius are you and DC's other parent?

Interesting.

You can invite the person who administered the test to the meeting as an educational advocate. Have you tried that?

I did! Brought the IEP team to their knees. It was awesome!!!

Walked out with everything we wanted. They shut their fucking mouths and got with the program after that.

Wow. Have you any idea how you sound?

Like a parent who got their child what they needed, and wasn't gullible enough to fall for the IEP team's "expertise."

So you are an expert in all of these services, then? What are your academic credentials? You sound like a nightmare.

Unfortunately, that is the reality. Parents of SN children have to become experts in their child and their child' issues and research what works for their child. No one else will do it for them. They are the ONLY ones who have their child's best interests in mind. Everyone else has other children with whom they have to balance their time. It is up to the parents to make sure that their child isn't being shunted to the side. IME, the parents have to know to ask for various services/accommodations, the "experts" from the school side never propose any. IME,There are only subject experts, there are no experts that deal with all of your child's issues. "Experts" tend to have their pet boxes in which to place your child. It is sort of like the saying, "If your only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, then all problems look like nails."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the only people in the IEP meeting who can correctly interpret the tests that would show that your child with ASD is a genius are you and DC's other parent?

Interesting.

You can invite the person who administered the test to the meeting as an educational advocate. Have you tried that?

I did! Brought the IEP team to their knees. It was awesome!!!

Walked out with everything we wanted. They shut their fucking mouths and got with the program after that.

Wow. Have you any idea how you sound?

Like a parent who got their child what they needed, and wasn't gullible enough to fall for the IEP team's "expertise."

So you are an expert in all of these services, then? What are your academic credentials? You sound like a nightmare.

No, but she brought her expert to the meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the only people in the IEP meeting who can correctly interpret the tests that would show that your child with ASD is a genius are you and DC's other parent?

Interesting.

You can invite the person who administered the test to the meeting as an educational advocate. Have you tried that?

I did! Brought the IEP team to their knees. It was awesome!!!

Walked out with everything we wanted. They shut their fucking mouths and got with the program after that.

Wow. Have you any idea how you sound?

Like a parent who got their child what they needed, and wasn't gullible enough to fall for the IEP team's "expertise."

So you are an expert in all of these services, then? What are your academic credentials? You sound like a nightmare.

Unfortunately, that is the reality. Parents of SN children have to become experts in their child and their child' issues and research what works for their child. No one else will do it for them. They are the ONLY ones who have their child's best interests in mind. Everyone else has other children with whom they have to balance their time. It is up to the parents to make sure that their child isn't being shunted to the side. IME, the parents have to know to ask for various services/accommodations, the "experts" from the school side never propose any. IME,There are only subject experts, there are no experts that deal with all of your child's issues. "Experts" tend to have their pet boxes in which to place your child. It is sort of like the saying, "If your only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, then all problems look like nails."

Well gosh then, I'm completed mystified why you aren't homeschooling. I'd think your workload (not to mention stress level,) would be reduced by about 1000% on a daily basis. No public school system will ever know your child half as well as you do. It'd be better for your child, for the county to provide you guidance/support, as needed. Don't you think?