consensus on the word "gypped"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So don't welsh on your debts anymore, folks.

I thought the phrase was, "don't welch on your debts."

You are correct, it is welch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I've lived among them and agree with the Pp you're quoting 100%. Go live among them too and come back and tell us what a noble culture they have.

I don't doubt that this was your experience. But the issue is that you're generalizing about millions of people--many from families who left Romania generations ago and have never set foot there--based on that. It's comparable to going to West Baltimore and observing that the social structures there are fundamentally broken, poverty is endemic, and violence is so deeply entrenched that the cycle is hugely challenging to alter. You wouldn't be wrong--but if you then concluded that "the truth is that black culture and character is the problem," you'd be way off base. The truth is that a complicated set of social, economic, and political factors are the problem--both in West Baltimore and in the Romani settlements. These are obviously inextricably linked to race and ethnicity in many ways, but they are not one and the same.

There is a deep history as to why the Romani culture and values in settlements in Romania or in other parts of Europe are what they are today. But it is not ingrained in individuals simply by virtue of their ethnicity, and I like to think most of us are past the point of presuming that race or ethnicity dictate character and values (or intelligence, or anything else).

I'm not really sure what to make of this thread. I'm the PP who said I've never felt personally affronted by use of gypped since I generally presume people just don't know the background of the word. But now that I see the number of posters who do know the history and are using the word explicitly to underscore the ethnic connection, I'm left wondering how best to deal with this the next time I encounter it. Keeping quiet and assuming good intentions is apparently not the way to go.

[Anonymous]

24:38, that's way too thoughtful a post for DCUM

It is odd how half the people in favor of using it seem to be saying it has no relation to the ethnic group and half seem to be saying it is appropriate because of the ethnic group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I've lived among them and agree with the Pp you're quoting 100%. Go live among them too and come back and tell us what a noble culture they have.

I don't doubt that this was your experience. But the issue is that you're generalizing about millions of people--many from families who left Romania generations ago and have never set foot there--based on that. It's comparable to going to West Baltimore and observing that the social structures there are fundamentally broken, poverty is endemic, and violence is so deeply entrenched that the cycle is hugely challenging to alter. You wouldn't be wrong--but if you then concluded that "the truth is that black culture and character is the problem," you'd be way off base. The truth is that a complicated set of social, economic, and political factors are the problem--both in West Baltimore and in the Romani settlements. These are obviously inextricably linked to race and ethnicity in many ways, but they are not one and the same.

There is a deep history as to why the Romani culture and values in settlements in Romania or in other parts of Europe are what they are today. But it is not ingrained in individuals simply by virtue of their ethnicity, and I like to think most of us are past the point of presuming that race or ethnicity dictate character and values (or intelligence, or anything else).

I'm not really sure what to make of this thread. I'm the PP who said I've never felt personally affronted by use of gypped since I generally presume people just don't know the background of the word. But now that I see the number of posters who do know the history and are using the word explicitly to underscore the ethnic connection, I'm left wondering how best to deal with this the next time I encounter it. Keeping quiet and assuming good intentions is apparently not the way to go.

I'm not talking about people who have some connection from generations ago. I'm talking of those who are presently still in Europe growing up in their Roma communities and those who are here first generation. Also there are Roma all over Europe, not just Romania (which you acknowledged, though I'm not sure why you specifically mentioned Romania).. The name Romania has nothing to do with the term Roma. The term Roma comes from the Romani word for "man/husband". The term Roma in the context of "Romanian" means citizen of Rome.

[Anonymous]

Saying the word gypsy is synonymous with Romanian is absurd. That's akin to saying the word Italian is interchangeable with mafioso (which is ridiculous).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not talking about people who have some connection from generations ago. I'm talking of those who are presently still in Europe growing up in their Roma communities and those who are here first generation. Also there are Roma all over Europe, not just Romania (which you acknowledged, though I'm not sure why you specifically mentioned Romania).. The name Romania has nothing to do with the term Roma. The term Roma comes from the Romani word for "man/husband". The term Roma in the context of "Romanian" means citizen of Rome.

The problem is that you are the only one drawing that distinction.

Being Romanian is not the same as being Romani. Pretty much anyone with any Romanian heritage understands that. But there are plenty of people who are ethnically Romani who are no longer in (or have never been in) Romania. Seriously, that's like using an Chinese slur and telling second or third generation Chinese Americans that they shouldn't be offended because you were only referring to first generation Chinese or those still in China. Guess what? Most Chinese Americans, even many generations out, are still going to take offense.

If your concern with using the word gypped is specifically that you might offend Romani who still live in Romania or are first generation immigrants somewhere, I think you can safely assume there is absolutely zero threat of that.

[Anonymous]

(And Romania and the surrounding states have historically been the countries with the largest groups of Romani--Romania still has more than almost any other European county--which is why it's connected. Interestingly, though, there are now more Romani in the U.S. than in any European country.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saying the word gypsy is synonymous with Romanian is absurd. That's akin to saying the word Italian is interchangeable with mafioso (which is ridiculous).

Gypsy is not synonymous with Romanian. It is synonymous with Romani. Romanian is the adjective for people who are Romanian. Romani is the adjective for people who are Roma. And another word for people who are Roma is Gypsies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(And Romania and the surrounding states have historically been the countries with the largest groups of Romani--Romania still has more than almost any other European county--which is why it's connected. Interestingly, though, there are now more Romani in the U.S. than in any European country.)

One reason there are now more Romani people in the US than in any European country (if that is true; I don't know) is because the Nazis killed 220,000-500,000 Sinti and Roma (aka Gypsies) in the Holocaust.

[Anonymous]

To 17:52 - you better spell that out to the woman of Jewish and Romanian descent who had taken offense.

[Anonymous]

17:57, that's me. In my particular case, my Romani great-grandfather considered himself to be from Romania (though if you want to get technical, he was actually from Hungary). Go read my first post; I specified that I have Roma and Jewish heritage (not on the same side for me, incidentally; just gave me a similar perspective on both those terms). I use Roma and Romani to refer to the same people, and neither is interchangeable with Romanian. I think that's a pretty common and well understood distinction. Maybe not so clear to Americans as to Europeans, though.

Some Romani (but certainly not all) are Romanian. Some Romani are [Irish, Spanish, Turkish, French, Canadian, etc.] depending on where they live. Europe used to have some countries that banned citizenship for Romani, but fortunately the creation of the EU has addressed that, for the most part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a slur.

+1

[Anonymous]

It's absolutely fine, and accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's absolutely fine, and accurate.

so many people eager to take offense.
It's a freaking minefield out there with so many of these professional offense-takers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's absolutely fine, and accurate.

so many people eager to take offense.
It's a freaking minefield out there with so many of these professional offense-takers

Like you, for example, who is being asked to make a simple change to your vocabulary and yet describes it as a "freaking minefield". I assume you're the "professional offense-taker" of which you speak?