s/o Gifted classes in DC schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year, DCPS mandated that all elementary teachers implement Reading Workshop. We use reading comprehension levels to divide our classes into Guided Reading groups. We read and discuss texts according to the Fountas and Pinnell level (from A-Z). This is a form of tracking. It's not a "G/T program" but it does group students by ability.

What? Are you a teacher? This is absolutely not a form of tracking. It is a form of differentiated instruction within the classroom.

Indeed, that's not tracking. People, get your vocabulary and facts straight or stop making claims. Better than "differentiation" is the term "ability grouping" for these type of practices. Check Brookings on this for example: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brown-center-chalkboard/posts/2013/04/03-ability-grouping-tracking-loveless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year, DCPS mandated that all elementary teachers implement Reading Workshop. We use reading comprehension levels to divide our classes into Guided Reading groups. We read and discuss texts according to the Fountas and Pinnell level (from A-Z). This is a form of tracking. It's not a "G/T program" but it does group students by ability.

What? Are you a teacher? This is absolutely not a form of tracking. It is a form of differentiated instruction within the classroom.

Yes. I am a teacher. Call it whatever you want. It's redbirds and bluebirds. Only now we call a a TRC reading level.

[Anonymous]

and whatever you call it, it's not a bad thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:and whatever you call it, it's not a bad thing

Except that it totally depends on having a good teacher. Our dc was reading Harry Potter and the 39 clues at home last year and we came in for our conference to find that dc's "just right books" included Frog and Toad Are Friends. To add insult to injury, they told us they had made that decision based on a recent eval and they did not want to retest dc (our suggestion) because dc might get "test anxiety." The librarian knew what was up, and was allowing dc to take out books that were not on dcs "just right" list. We had dc bring 39 clues books from home for reading time for the rest of the year, but REALLY....

the problem with this kind of system, which I approve of in the absence of ANYTHING better, is that it totally depends on the teacher to do accurate differentiation. Also, the school (a JKLM) does spend a lot of time dealing with some PARTICULAR problem students, and they have been that way since they arrived at the school. They are OOB and the teacher takes them out in the hall to speak with them privately about their bad behavior, but where does that leave the rest of the class?

PS, my dc is now finally in the highest reading/English group this year and the spelling and vocab words are a joke. DC is capable of way more. We joke about the "wordly wise" book because there is nothing else we can do, and try to get dc to ask when we use words dc does not completely understand, encourage the reading of newspapers, etc. DC aces the spelling and vocab tests. One of the more asinine exercises is spelling a word and then taking off one letter each time so that the result is a blank word instead of what you started with. DC has to do this with each word dc already knows how to spell and knows the meaning of.

Good at math but no one would know it because dc is getting 3s - as a matter of policy this school just seems not to award 4s until the end of the year. I honestly do not understand how so many kids from dc's school are getting into privates with their 3s until the last grading period of the year policy, and we DO have another child who is in trouble but you would never know it because the grades are the same and the comments are all positive. With basically one teacher all year one teacher can ruin a year or make it the best year of dcs lives.

We mostly have good teachers, probably because we are in a JKLM and the teachers who are crappy mostly wash out after a year, but this is the school cluster that everyone seems to want to get into, that feeds into Deal and Wilson. So I just cannot imagine what is happening elsewhere where there are more problem students and less reading proficiency. My dc has scored 100 percent on the DC CAS since the first year dc took it, so I can only conclude that it is basically a joke as well. The idea that some schools had to cheat to get their scores up not only disgusts me because of the immorality of it, it makes me really really worried for the kids at those schools whose answers needed to be erased because they were wrong....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who has a kid at JKLM doesn't really understand what most people are dealing with. I seriously doubt the differentiated learning includes a majority of kids who are several grades behind their peers. You basically are the gifted class the rest of the parents want for their kids.

20:49 here--yes, that was my point. That JKLM is the exception rather than the rule. And, yes, there is probably no classroom in my kids' school that has a majority of kids learning below grade-level. But it's not true that my kids' classrooms are de facto gifted programs; there is a wide range of kids in each room, from below grade level to above.

So if most parents want what I have, they want good, in-classroom differentiation--not a gifted program.

PP, you are so practical and calm it's a wonder, and a service, that you take time out to answer at all. I hope you are a friend of mine at our jklm school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year, DCPS mandated that all elementary teachers implement Reading Workshop. We use reading comprehension levels to divide our classes into Guided Reading groups. We read and discuss texts according to the Fountas and Pinnell level (from A-Z). This is a form of tracking. It's not a "G/T program" but it does group students by ability.

What? Are you a teacher? This is absolutely not a form of tracking. It is a form of differentiated instruction within the classroom.

Yes. I am a teacher. Call it whatever you want. It's redbirds and bluebirds. Only now we call a a TRC reading level.

Tracking would be entirely different classrooms/programs with little ability to switch up or down once assigned. Tracking has almost never happened at the elementary level except for truly gifted programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and whatever you call it, it's not a bad thing

Except that it totally depends on having a good teacher. Our dc was reading Harry Potter and the 39 clues at home last year and we came in for our conference to find that dc's "just right books" included Frog and Toad Are Friends. To add insult to injury, they told us they had made that decision based on a recent eval and they did not want to retest dc (our suggestion) because dc might get "test anxiety." The librarian knew what was up, and was allowing dc to take out books that were not on dcs "just right" list. We had dc bring 39 clues books from home for reading time for the rest of the year, but REALLY....

the problem with this kind of system, which I approve of in the absence of ANYTHING better, is that it totally depends on the teacher to do accurate differentiation. Also, the school (a JKLM) does spend a lot of time dealing with some PARTICULAR problem students, and they have been that way since they arrived at the school. They are OOB and the teacher takes them out in the hall to speak with them privately about their bad behavior, but where does that leave the rest of the class?

PS, my dc is now finally in the highest reading/English group this year and the spelling and vocab words are a joke. DC is capable of way more. We joke about the "wordly wise" book because there is nothing else we can do, and try to get dc to ask when we use words dc does not completely understand, encourage the reading of newspapers, etc. DC aces the spelling and vocab tests. One of the more asinine exercises is spelling a word and then taking off one letter each time so that the result is a blank word instead of what you started with. DC has to do this with each word dc already knows how to spell and knows the meaning of.

Good at math but no one would know it because dc is getting 3s - as a matter of policy this school just seems not to award 4s until the end of the year. I honestly do not understand how so many kids from dc's school are getting into privates with their 3s until the last grading period of the year policy, and we DO have another child who is in trouble but you would never know it because the grades are the same and the comments are all positive. With basically one teacher all year one teacher can ruin a year or make it the best year of dcs lives.

We mostly have good teachers, probably because we are in a JKLM and the teachers who are crappy mostly wash out after a year, but this is the school cluster that everyone seems to want to get into, that feeds into Deal and Wilson. So I just cannot imagine what is happening elsewhere where there are more problem students and less reading proficiency. My dc has scored 100 percent on the DC CAS since the first year dc took it, so I can only conclude that it is basically a joke as well. The idea that some schools had to cheat to get their scores up not only disgusts me because of the immorality of it, it makes me really really worried for the kids at those schools whose answers needed to be erased because they were wrong....

I was with you PP until you described the children in need of redirection as OOB (as if that moniker had anything to do with your point). It sort of tainted your whole post for me.

[Anonymous]

20:13, I could have almost written your post, except we're at Brent. However the trouble makers are residing inboundary in million dollar homes.

I'm completely baffled by the inability DCPS's "best" schools to deal with children who are performing a few grades above level in reading. Why do they insist on dumbing kids down? Does it really hurt them to admit a child is reading way above grade level?

It's disheartening to see a smart kid that pays attention in class learn to resent school.

[Anonymous]

Is this like being a little bit pregnant?

[Anonymous]

There are some practical steps you can take to improve Guided Reading in your school. In our school we don't test our own students for TRC. Find out who is doing the testing. Also take a look at the levelled library at your school. Higher level readers need novel sets. Your parent organization can insist that the school acquire high quality literature for that levelled library. Ask your child's teacher what books he/she is planning to use for the group your child is in. If it's junk ask for better selections.

[Anonymous]

By the way, those photocopied A to Z books are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who has a kid at JKLM doesn't really understand what most people are dealing with. I seriously doubt the differentiated learning includes a majority of kids who are several grades behind their peers. You basically are the gifted class the rest of the parents want for their kids.

20:49 here--yes, that was my point. That JKLM is the exception rather than the rule. And, yes, there is probably no classroom in my kids' school that has a majority of kids learning below grade-level. But it's not true that my kids' classrooms are de facto gifted programs; there is a wide range of kids in each room, from below grade level to above.

So if most parents want what I have, they want good, in-classroom differentiation--not a gifted program.

PP, you are so practical and calm it's a wonder, and a service, that you take time out to answer at all. I hope you are a friend of mine at our jklm school!

Not me - I want tracking.

[Anonymous]

Differentiation in the same classroom is impractical for DC, as the gaps are often far too wide. Tracking would be far more effective, if done properly. That means, the intent being to give them heavy remediation so that the students can ultimately all reach the same level. Essentially, it would be tailoring to to strengthen students where they are weakest, to ultimately bring them all up to the same level. The comment by a pp above about not being able to switch makes me wonder if the whole point is being missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Differentiation in the same classroom is impractical for DC, as the gaps are often far too wide. Tracking would be far more effective, if done properly. That means, the intent being to give them heavy remediation so that the students can ultimately all reach the same level. Essentially, it would be tailoring to to strengthen students where they are weakest, to ultimately bring them all up to the same level. The comment by a pp above about not being able to switch makes me wonder if the whole point is being missed.

Actually, you're wrong. It's doesn't matter how wide the gaps are, as long as you divide the class into guided reading groups according to reading level, and provided that you have leveled books for each level. It can be done, and it can done effectively. It's not easy. But there are schools that are doing this and doing it well. The difficult part is training students to work in stations independently so that they don't distract the teacher-led guided reading group.

What DCPS hasn't addressed is how to address wide gaps in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Differentiation in the same classroom is impractical for DC, as the gaps are often far too wide. Tracking would be far more effective, if done properly. That means, the intent being to give them heavy remediation so that the students can ultimately all reach the same level. Essentially, it would be tailoring to to strengthen students where they are weakest, to ultimately bring them all up to the same level. The comment by a pp above about not being able to switch makes me wonder if the whole point is being missed.

Actually, you're wrong. It's doesn't matter how wide the gaps are, as long as you divide the class into guided reading groups according to reading level, and provided that you have leveled books for each level. It can be done, and it can done effectively. It's not easy. But there are schools that are doing this and doing it well. The difficult part is training students to work in stations independently so that they don't distract the teacher-led guided reading group.

What DCPS hasn't addressed is how to address wide gaps in math.

So although this can be done, it's not easy, and the students distract each other. And there's still the problem with gaps in math. Again - why wouldn't true tracking be a better solution?