s/o Gifted classes in DC schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it hard to believe that any G&T program would turn away kids testing at the upper end of the IQ scale who've recently moved to the area.

Really? I don't know about MD and VA, but NYC does this all the time.

[Anonymous]

Students don't need to test "gifted" to take honors classes in most Metro area middle schools. I know this because my siblings have children in ordinary suburban middle schools, in McClean and Takoma Park MD (not in the test-in math/science magnet).

Suburban kids can normally take honors English, science, foreign language, social studies and advanced math without having tested in. They are allowed to sign up for upper level courses based on county standardized test results and/or teacher recommendations. I'm told that a good quarter of the kids who start any particular honors class elect to drop down to a "regular" class because they can't or won't do the tougher work. There is some movement the other way as well, with teachers recommending that particularly able and motivated kids in regular courses move up.

What is so horrible about this type of tracking? One of my nieces is in honors classes for math and science but not English, the other in honors English,Spanish and social studies but not advanced math. They both seem happy, challenged and OK with the concept of not being high fliers in every subject. My siblings say that the kids are on track to pursue the full International Baccalaureate diploma in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students don't need to test "gifted" to take honors classes in most Metro area middle schools. I know this because my siblings have children in ordinary suburban middle schools, in McClean and Takoma Park MD (not in the test-in math/science magnet).

Suburban kids can normally take honors English, science, foreign language, social studies and advanced math without having tested in. They are allowed to sign up for upper level courses based on county standardized test results and/or teacher recommendations. I'm told that a good quarter of the kids who start any particular honors class elect to drop down to a "regular" class because they can't or won't do the tougher work. There is some movement the other way as well, with teachers recommending that particularly able and motivated kids in regular courses move up.

What is so horrible about this type of tracking? One of my nieces is in honors classes for math and science but not English, the other in honors English,Spanish and social studies but not advanced math. They both seem happy, challenged and OK with the concept of not being high fliers in every subject. My siblings say that the kids are on track to pursue the full International Baccalaureate diploma in HS.

Well now you are changing the topic. There is a difference between AP honor classes and a G&T school. To my knowledge, DC high schools offer AP classes at Wilson, McKinley, Banneker, SWW, Chavez, and Coolidge. Honor classes might be offers at some of the other schools, but I am unaware of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students don't need to test "gifted" to take honors classes in most Metro area middle schools. I know this because my siblings have children in ordinary suburban middle schools, in McClean and Takoma Park MD (not in the test-in math/science magnet).

Suburban kids can normally take honors English, science, foreign language, social studies and advanced math without having tested in. They are allowed to sign up for upper level courses based on county standardized test results and/or teacher recommendations. I'm told that a good quarter of the kids who start any particular honors class elect to drop down to a "regular" class because they can't or won't do the tougher work. There is some movement the other way as well, with teachers recommending that particularly able and motivated kids in regular courses move up.

What is so horrible about this type of tracking? One of my nieces is in honors classes for math and science but not English, the other in honors English,Spanish and social studies but not advanced math. They both seem happy, challenged and OK with the concept of not being high fliers in every subject. My siblings say that the kids are on track to pursue the full International Baccalaureate diploma in HS.

Well now you are changing the topic. There is a difference between AP honor classes and a G&T school. To my knowledge, DC high schools offer AP classes at Wilson, McKinley, Banneker, SWW, Chavez, and Coolidge. Honor classes might be offers at some of the other schools, but I am unaware of them.

Oh, and Eastern is offering the classes to pursue the IB starting with this year's entering class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students don't need to test "gifted" to take honors classes in most Metro area middle schools. I know this because my siblings have children in ordinary suburban middle schools, in McClean and Takoma Park MD (not in the test-in math/science magnet).

Suburban kids can normally take honors English, science, foreign language, social studies and advanced math without having tested in. They are allowed to sign up for upper level courses based on county standardized test results and/or teacher recommendations. I'm told that a good quarter of the kids who start any particular honors class elect to drop down to a "regular" class because they can't or won't do the tougher work. There is some movement the other way as well, with teachers recommending that particularly able and motivated kids in regular courses move up.

What is so horrible about this type of tracking? One of my nieces is in honors classes for math and science but not English, the other in honors English,Spanish and social studies but not advanced math. They both seem happy, challenged and OK with the concept of not being high fliers in every subject. My siblings say that the kids are on track to pursue the full International Baccalaureate diploma in HS.

I think in fact this is a very good idea as long as honors classes are available in all/ most DCPS schools. How do you know that is the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hard to believe that any G&T program would turn away kids testing at the upper end of the IQ scale who've recently moved to the area.

Really? I don't know about MD and VA, but NYC does this all the time.

I could only see that if they were severely strapped for resources and/or had very very stringent criteria (like, oh, your 140 IQ is not good enough, all the kids we have are higher than that). Otherwise I'd be thinking they don't have their priorities straight and their school is not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well now you are changing the topic. There is a difference between AP honor classes and a G&T school. To my knowledge, DC high schools offer AP classes at Wilson, McKinley, Banneker, SWW, Chavez, and Coolidge. Honor classes might be offers at some of the other schools, but I am unaware of them.

Not changing the topic, enlarging it. High schools can't offer topnotch honors/IB/AP classes without solid options for advanced learners in both elementary and middle school. What Fairfax and MoCo call GT are somewhat different, but the result is pretty much the same: most of the strongest students en route to elite colleges some years later.

Honors and AP classes at the best DC high school programs aren't all that hot when compared to the lead suburban programs mainly because they aren't building on first-rate middle school programs for the strongest students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ideological reasons are well intentioned but an utter disaster in practice. When for example you have a middle school classroom where some of the kids are already capable of reading at a college level, and others can't read at all, there's so much disparity that no teacher can meet any of their needs effectively. Even with superstar teachers, there will always be students missing out, the classroom will be always dysfunctional and uncohesive as a whole.

This is really getting to the issue, differentiation works well within a certain spectrum; however, when you have children that cannot read (for whatever reason) then it clearly will not work because those children cannot access the materials. The problem is DCPS does not admit that students currently in high and middle school do not have these basic skills, these children need targeted intervention and by that I do not mean try a new thing every week with unqualified (literacy) teachers doing pull-out. DCPS should be able to point to a plan that they have across the school district for students that read/or are not able to read at specific lexile levels. Differentiation is a fantastic tool but you can't teach phonics and decoding at the same time as doing a differentiated close reading activity with a classroom of students from non to on grade level students, while simultaneously creating your own curriculum. That's a whole other problem, lack of curricula at DCPS!!!! Get busy DCPS you have enough people at central office to have created more than your current scope/sequence.

you have so many of your facts wrong about how things work I just can't even figure out where to begin.

[Anonymous]

This year, DCPS mandated that all elementary teachers implement Reading Workshop. We use reading comprehension levels to divide our classes into Guided Reading groups. We read and discuss texts according to the Fountas and Pinnell level (from A-Z). This is a form of tracking. It's not a "G/T program" but it does group students by ability.

[Anonymous]

How does that work when there is so much disparity in some classrooms, where for example you might have a middle school classroom where some kids can read at a college level, and other kids can't even read? I know for a fact that situation actually exists in some DC middle school classrooms right now, and the teachers cannot adequately meet the needs of every one of those kids.

[Anonymous]

11:12, at Brent it doesn't work all that well. The kids that are waaaay ahead get dumbed down. They are trying at Brent, but the range of ability is too wide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does that work when there is so much disparity in some classrooms, where for example you might have a middle school classroom where some kids can read at a college level, and other kids can't even read? I know for a fact that situation actually exists in some DC middle school classrooms right now, and the teachers cannot adequately meet the needs of every one of those kids.

I had 4 groups: 2 groups that were far above grade level. We read very challenging texts -- novels and literary nonfiction. My other 2 groups were far below grade level. I used a high-quality reading intervention program. My low level readers made a lot of progress and my high level readers were challenged and engaged. I don't know what teachers do at the middle school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:12, at Brent it doesn't work all that well. The kids that are waaaay ahead get dumbed down. They are trying at Brent, but the range of ability is too wide.

That's totally unnecessary. There's great classical literature available for high-level readers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:12, at Brent it doesn't work all that well. The kids that are waaaay ahead get dumbed down. They are trying at Brent, but the range of ability is too wide.

I'm not a Brent parent but I just don't believe that. Unless you can give me concrete evidence how this is happening I can't but conclude that this is hearsay. There are indeed great models whereby this does not need to happen and I know many teachers capable of applying them. While I'm personally an advocate for pushing reading fluency and accuracy, the struggle with it does not preclude higher order thinking and learning about literary concepts, history, motives, and all. Don't forget that there are prized elementary school curricula (Waldorf, Montessori to some degree) that don't even depend all that much on reading. Parents of those children would certainly take issue with calling that "dumbed down".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year, DCPS mandated that all elementary teachers implement Reading Workshop. We use reading comprehension levels to divide our classes into Guided Reading groups. We read and discuss texts according to the Fountas and Pinnell level (from A-Z). This is a form of tracking. It's not a "G/T program" but it does group students by ability.

What? Are you a teacher? This is absolutely not a form of tracking. It is a form of differentiated instruction within the classroom.