When will Private Schools' bubble burst ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer, but I hope you're right. We're a $350k HHI family with 2 kids in private and feel like it's a struggle to pay tuition every year. If it goes much higher, we won't be able to do it anymore.

I ask this genuinely, so please don't flame me.

We have a HHI of about $165K. The only debt we carry is our mortgage and one car loan. We pay off credit cards every month, max out our retirement investing, and usually have a little bit left over. We would not be able to afford independent school tuition. But if we suddenly doubled our HHI into the range you are, we could easily make it work. So what makes it difficult for you? What are your monthly expenses? What's your mortgage? I'm trying to get a better sense of your position since in addition to being a parent, I'm also an independent school teacher and recognize that I live a very different life than most of the families we serve.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Sidwell's tuition for 2013-14 is $35,228. That's an increase of $960 (2.8%) from this year's tuition of $34,268. Still a lot of money, but not even close to the 4-6% increase someone keeps claiming here.

Thanks, the more specifics the better in this discussion!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the 990's posted are 5 years old. They don't inform anyone of what is going on today. Tuition has nearly doubled since the period those old 990's reflect.

... if not as [i]Brobdingnagian[/i] as she/he claims, are not sustainable in the long haul.

cool. I learned a new word. Kinda hard to pronounce though; and I wonder how many people would understand what it means.

Pretty much anyone who ever read Jonathan Swift.

Rabelais, no?

[Anonymous]

Without googling (what the hell, once upon a time we all had to use our memories) I'm pretty sure "Brobdingnagian" is from Gulliver's Travels (Swift) -- aren't they the giant people who are the opposite of the Lilliputians? Excellent adjective.

[Anonymous]

OK, I got bored enough to actually research some of the tuition claims being made here. I focused on Sidwell because it's the most high profile school, and so easiest to find information for. Here's what I found ...

Anonymous wrote:... this year every school hiked tuition 4-6 % again, just like they did the year before and the year before , and the year before. ...

False. Here are actual Sidwell tuition figures for 2008-2014, with the % increase over each prior year.
2008-09 $29,442
2009-10 $30,842 4.76%
2010-11 $32,069 3.98%
2011-12 $32,960 2.78%
2012-13 $34,268 3.97%
2013-14 $35,228 2.80%
I guess PP was correct 1 out 5 times. A more accurate -- but less exciting -- statement would be "Sidwell hiked tuition 2-4% for the last four years!" But PP seems to have doubled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:... these figures are based on LAST YEARS Tuition, and next year it will be $2,000- $3,000 more at every school. ...

False. As revealed by the data above, Sidwell's tuition is increasing by $960 next year, not $2,000-3,000. PP seems to have tripled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:seriously, why has tuition quintupled in last 20 years and doubled in the last 6 years? ...

False and false. Over the last 6 years, Sidwell's tuition did not double. It increased $5,786, a 19.7% increase. Here, PP quintupled the rate of increase (19.7% versus 100%). Over the past 20 years, Sidwell's tuition did not quintuple. Sidwell tuition for 1992-93 was $10,885. Compared to the 2012-13 tuition (20 years later), that's a little more than double, and certainly not quintuple.

These tuition costs are incredibly high, and it's a legitimate conversation to discuss whether they're justified. However, PP has continuously exaggerated and falsified the rate of increase, which prevents any meaningful conversation from occurring. I hope this data can help advance the conversation.

Sam2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Without googling (what the hell, once upon a time we all had to use our memories) I'm pretty sure "Brobdingnagian" is from Gulliver's Travels (Swift) -- aren't they the giant people who are the opposite of the Lilliputians? Excellent adjective.

Yeah, you're right. I was confusing this group of giants with some of the many different tribes that Gargantua and his pals run across in their travels.

[Anonymous]

Our HHI is $450-$500k. We have 3 at the cathedral schools and do just fine. I really don't understand those earning over $400k who say they cannot afford private schools. We don't skimp on anything, save for retirement and college, go on vacation. I just don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I got bored enough to actually research some of the tuition claims being made here. I focused on Sidwell because it's the most high profile school, and so easiest to find information for. Here's what I found ...

Anonymous wrote:... this year every school hiked tuition 4-6 % again, just like they did the year before and the year before , and the year before. ...

False. Here are actual Sidwell tuition figures for 2008-2014, with the % increase over each prior year.
2008-09 $29,442
2009-10 $30,842 4.76%
2010-11 $32,069 3.98%
2011-12 $32,960 2.78%
2012-13 $34,268 3.97%
2013-14 $35,228 2.80%
I guess PP was correct 1 out 5 times. A more accurate -- but less exciting -- statement would be "Sidwell hiked tuition 2-4% for the last four years!" But PP seems to have doubled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:... these figures are based on LAST YEARS Tuition, and next year it will be $2,000- $3,000 more at every school. ...

False. As revealed by the data above, Sidwell's tuition is increasing by $960 next year, not $2,000-3,000. PP seems to have tripled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:seriously, why has tuition quintupled in last 20 years and doubled in the last 6 years? ...

False and false. Over the last 6 years, Sidwell's tuition did not double. It increased $5,786, a 19.7% increase. Here, PP quintupled the rate of increase (19.7% versus 100%). Over the past 20 years, Sidwell's tuition did not quintuple. Sidwell tuition for 1992-93 was $10,885. Compared to the 2012-13 tuition (20 years later), that's a little more than double, and certainly not quintuple.

These tuition costs are incredibly high, and it's a legitimate conversation to discuss whether they're justified. However, PP has continuously exaggerated and falsified the rate of increase, which prevents any meaningful conversation from occurring. I hope this data can help advance the conversation.

Sam2

Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to dig up and post the actual facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I got bored enough to actually research some of the tuition claims being made here. I focused on Sidwell because it's the most high profile school, and so easiest to find information for. Here's what I found ...

Anonymous wrote:... this year every school hiked tuition 4-6 % again, just like they did the year before and the year before , and the year before. ...

False. Here are actual Sidwell tuition figures for 2008-2014, with the % increase over each prior year.
2008-09 $29,442
2009-10 $30,842 4.76%
2010-11 $32,069 3.98%
2011-12 $32,960 2.78%
2012-13 $34,268 3.97%
2013-14 $35,228 2.80%
I guess PP was correct 1 out 5 times. A more accurate -- but less exciting -- statement would be "Sidwell hiked tuition 2-4% for the last four years!" But PP seems to have doubled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:... these figures are based on LAST YEARS Tuition, and next year it will be $2,000- $3,000 more at every school. ...

False. As revealed by the data above, Sidwell's tuition is increasing by $960 next year, not $2,000-3,000. PP seems to have tripled the rate of tuition increase.

Anonymous wrote:seriously, why has tuition quintupled in last 20 years and doubled in the last 6 years? ...

False and false. Over the last 6 years, Sidwell's tuition did not double. It increased $5,786, a 19.7% increase. Here, PP quintupled the rate of increase (19.7% versus 100%). Over the past 20 years, Sidwell's tuition did not quintuple. Sidwell tuition for 1992-93 was $10,885. Compared to the 2012-13 tuition (20 years later), that's a little more than double, and certainly not quintuple.

These tuition costs are incredibly high, and it's a legitimate conversation to discuss whether they're justified. However, PP has continuously exaggerated and falsified the rate of increase, which prevents any meaningful conversation from occurring. I hope this data can help advance the conversation.

Sam2

NP. Sidwell's tuition has tripled from 1992 to 2012 using numbers from your own post.

Don't let your sense of the urgent crowd out the important. The important message the OP is trying to convey to Independent Schools is the growing ground swell of consumers desire for schools to be more transparent about the projected long-term cost of a child's education before we decide to invest our families in your school. You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

Oops. My mistake. My spreadsheet said a 215% increase over 20 years, and I mis-converted that to "a little more than double." Should have been "a little more than triple." My apologies for the mistake.

I'm not sure I follow your second paragraph, especially the part about a ground swell of consumers. If you mean that people should think critically about whether they really can afford private school tuition, then I agree.

Sam2

[Anonymous]

Our school (not cheap by any means) has been good about being transparent about the various issues. Most recently the head of the finance subcommittee of the Board came and spoke to the parents' association -- I think a lot of questions were answered and although there is still real worry about the costs, there's also an understanding of the dilemmas the schools face.

I also think the school was quite open with us when we applied that we could expect yearly tuition increases; we were able to sit down and make a table of yearly expected tuition and thus far (happily) our projected yearly tuition has actually been a bit lower than the real figures, as the recent percentage increases are lower than in the previous 5-year period.

Lastly, I've found that when I ask questions, people at the school are willing to answer them. Now, would I ask "what does Teacher Smith make in salary?" No, I think that would be something the school would (appropriately) not share. But we do know the Head of School's compensation; and we do know where salary and benefits in the aggregate figure as a percentage of the overall budget. So, I do have a pretty good idea of where the money is going, and no sense of an easy fix, either. I might think a certain foreign language superfluous, but that view might not be shared by other families (nor are RIFs easy to absorb in a small community).

[Anonymous]

Hee, hee, I just read the thread from start to finish -- it's quite funny when you do it that way. One very determined poster says over and over again that "tuition has nearly doubled in the past 6 years" and sticks to it despite about 10 different posts clearly debunking it. (There's also a good line of posts where the OP uses the word "quintuples" as if it is a synonym for "triples.") You could start a pretty good drinking game with phrases like "nearly doubled," "quintupled in 20 years," ad hominem attacks, and "40 million in revenue."

I wonder what the OP's beef was? Private school is really expensive, but what set her/him off for nine pages of posting trying to prove a wrong fact (100% tuition increase in 6 years) that obscures a larger valid debate (why 20 years of steadily rising costs that exceed inflation)?

[Anonymous]

Private schools compete by offering progressively more expensive "services" which go far beyond providing a solid college preparation. You are paying for those "services" like multiple sports teams, performing arts course, travel budgets to exotic places, etc. These schools become a status symbol and less a cost effective place to prepare the students for college.

My son went to a prep school in NJ that cost less than $15K/year and a third of the class went to the top 2% colleges. Sports were bare bones and the curriculum focused on non exotic subjects matter and small classes.

Parents here did not want to pay extra for the bourgeois acoutrements only for the important academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Private schools compete by offering progressively more expensive "services" which go far beyond providing a solid college preparation. You are paying for those "services" like multiple sports teams, performing arts course, travel budgets to exotic places, etc. These schools become a status symbol and less a cost effective place to prepare the students for college.

My son went to a prep school in NJ that cost less than $15K/year and a third of the class went to the top 2% colleges. Sports were bare bones and the curriculum focused on non exotic subjects matter and small classes.

Parents here did not want to pay extra for the bourgeois acoutrements only for the important academics.

What NJ prep school was that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer, but I hope you're right. We're a $350k HHI family with 2 kids in private and feel like it's a struggle to pay tuition every year. If it goes much higher, we won't be able to do it anymore.

I ask this genuinely, so please don't flame me.

We have a HHI of about $165K. The only debt we carry is our mortgage and one car loan. We pay off credit cards every month, max out our retirement investing, and usually have a little bit left over. We would not be able to afford independent school tuition. But if we suddenly doubled our HHI into the range you are, we could easily make it work. So what makes it difficult for you? What are your monthly expenses? What's your mortgage? I'm trying to get a better sense of your position since in addition to being a parent, I'm also an independent school teacher and recognize that I live a very different life than most of the families we serve.

Thanks.

First, I hope you mena to say you "serve" the educational process or the education of kids, not " serve the families" , right?

Second, my guess is a family with HHI 350K is accustomed to certain things in theri lifestyle, such as 3 vacations/year, perhaps a home near in to DC ( in upper caucasia, perhaps) and may also have a nanny or even hefty law school or med school student loans ( typical debt of an MD is 350K after med school). My guess is your student loans are less ?