Police handcuff kindergartner for tantrum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is, after working with children for over twenty years, calling the police would have never, EVER even occurred to me even if I had tried all the means you described above. Do you really think the child wouldn't have calmed down after a period of time? If the bear hug approach didn't work, what about placing her in room where she could do no harm to herself or others? This is assuming that this child was really capable of doing serious harm to others. Again, if we don't realize that this is not an indictment of a six year old's behavior but an indictment of how adults handled it, we are lost.

You're assuming this was a "normal" child. No, she would not have necessarily have just "calmed down" eventually-- and what if she hurt herself or someone else in the mean time? Your 20 years of experience doesn't add up to a hill of beans if someone ends up seriously injured.

I agree, and I'm an educator.

Imagine YOUR child being in that class. I wonder how calm you would be if that same incident occurred in your child's classroom. Who cares what the root of the behavior is at that point; get her out of the room and find help. Calling an ambulance would have been the right thing to do if restraining her didn't calm her down.

You do what you can to protect the majority. simple fact . . .

Should I let a fight occur btw. two senior boys in my classroom b/c it would seem too outrageous to call security - and perhaps even the police? (which has happened in my school)

No wonder the system is falling apart at the seems. You can't save the world, hon, but you can do your best to ensure that most feel secure in their environment - b/c w/o a safe environment, there's no learning going on.

If my child was in that class, I'd have a vested interest in knowing that the kid was getting help that was research based and likely to work, because she'll surely be back.. Scared straight programs don't work, research shows that. Kids don't get the message "Don't do that" they get the message that "you're the kind of person who belongs in jail" and they conform their behavior to the expectations. Furthermore, destroying the school's relationship with the parent isn't going to help.

That line makes me laugh!

It takes two to tango. When a child has been in trouble throughout his/her academic career and parents have been called for many, many meetings, do you honestly think there was a relationship to begin with?

Have you tried calling home only to get a non-working number?

Have you used translators b/c of language barriers?

Have you tried to contact parents but b/c of odd work hours could never connect?

I could give a million reasons why some relationships are just not meant to be. So please don't blame the teachers and administrators for "destroying" a relationship.

[Anonymous]

If it wouldn't have occurred to you to call the police, what WOULD you have done? The child is raging, is tearing things off the wall, throwing things, threw a shelf which hit the principal, jumped on a shredder and was trying to break a glass frame. If I were doing all those things, I'd be worn out but she didn't slow down. She was raging and showing no signs of calming. Just what would you have done next? Being handcufffed is better than being pepper sprayed or TASED

As a teacher of children who are emotionally disturbed, if there's a situation where a child is truly raging and can't come down, even with therapeutic restraint and other strategies, then you call for an ambulance, they have ways to safely restrain a child and take them to the hospital where they can receive the medical care they need. An ambulance, which takes a child to medical care is entirely different from a police car taking a child to jail.

That isn't to say that there aren't a million things to try first, which I'm guessing they didn't, but there's no excuse for putting a small child in a jail cell.

The aunt claims the child was put in a holding cell but the police chief disputes that. He says "the girl was taken to the police department's squad room, not a holding cell, and officers there tried to calm her and gave her a Coke " http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/04/georgia_kindergartener_handcuf.html

[Anonymous]

Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

Of course the school isn't equipped to handle this situation! That's why the cops were called. It has nothing to do with xenophobia or conservatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

I don't know any six year old kids that weigh 100lbs. 70lbs MAX

[Anonymous]

If my child acted like this (which he never would), I would hate for my child to be taken to jail. They could have just handcuffed the child and laid her on the grass, as they do others, until the mother or whoever is on her emergency contacts list came. I understand that they had to restrain her and the handcuffs seems about right to me, but to put her in the back of a police car and take her to jail? Unbelievable. The school did the right thing but honestly, the police did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is, after working with children for over twenty years, calling the police would have never, EVER even occurred to me even if I had tried all the means you described above. Do you really think the child wouldn't have calmed down after a period of time? If the bear hug approach didn't work, what about placing her in room where she could do no harm to herself or others? This is assuming that this child was really capable of doing serious harm to others. Again, if we don't realize that this is not an indictment of a six year old's behavior but an indictment of how adults handled it, we are lost.

You're assuming this was a "normal" child. No, she would not have necessarily have just "calmed down" eventually-- and what if she hurt herself or someone else in the mean time? Your 20 years of experience doesn't add up to a hill of beans if someone ends up seriously injured.

I agree, and I'm an educator.

Imagine YOUR child being in that class. I wonder how calm you would be if that same incident occurred in your child's classroom. Who cares what the root of the behavior is at that point; get her out of the room and find help. Calling an ambulance would have been the right thing to do if restraining her didn't calm her down.

You do what you can to protect the majority. simple fact . . .

Should I let a fight occur btw. two senior boys in my classroom b/c it would seem too outrageous to call security - and perhaps even the police? (which has happened in my school)

No wonder the system is falling apart at the seems. You can't save the world, hon, but you can do your best to ensure that most feel secure in their environment - b/c w/o a safe environment, there's no learning going on.

If my child was in that class, I'd have a vested interest in knowing that the kid was getting help that was research based and likely to work, because she'll surely be back.. Scared straight programs don't work, research shows that. Kids don't get the message "Don't do that" they get the message that "you're the kind of person who belongs in jail" and they conform their behavior to the expectations. Furthermore, destroying the school's relationship with the parent isn't going to help.

That line makes me laugh!

It takes two to tango. When a child has been in trouble throughout his/her academic career and parents have been called for many, many meetings, do you honestly think there was a relationship to begin with?

Have you tried calling home only to get a non-working number?

Have you used translators b/c of language barriers?

Have you tried to contact parents but b/c of odd work hours could never connect?

I could give a million reasons why some relationships are just not meant to be. So please don't blame the teachers and administrators for "destroying" a relationship.

Yes actually, I'm the author of this post and also the one above where I stated that I was a special educator and that I thought an ambulance should have been called, and I'm also the poster who replied to the question about what happens if you call for an ambulance for a mental health crisis.

Developing relationships with parents is a huge part of what I do, and for that matter, what the general education teachers at my school do. Sometimes that means making home visits, sometimes that means calling from home in the evening, sometimes it means using translators. And sometimes it takes years to gain a parent's trust and form a relationship. But even with parents who are challenging, and as a specialist in Emotional Disturbance I see my fair share, you can build relationships.

This child hasn't been in trouble "throughout her academic career", she's been in trouble for about 3/4 of Kindergarten, a little less than 6% of her "academic career". The school and the school system may need to work on their relationship with this family for a large portion of that time. Giving up on anything 6% of the way through is unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my child acted like this (which he never would), I would hate for my child to be taken to jail. They could have just handcuffed the child and laid her on the grass, as they do others, until the mother or whoever is on her emergency contacts list came. I understand that they had to restrain her and the handcuffs seems about right to me, but to put her in the back of a police car and take her to jail? Unbelievable. The school did the right thing but honestly, the police did not.

While it may not apply in this case, there are circumstances where the police cannot "wait" for emergency contacts to arrive. Their ability to wait may be dependent on the calls for service they receive. In the extreme, waiting for an emergency contact delays an officer from responding to other 911 calls. I admit this may not apply here. But I do believe there are reasons why an officer may not be able to wait a situation out. If the emergency contact is not reached, taking the child to the station enables the officer to go back on the street and respond to other calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

Of course the school isn't equipped to handle this situation! That's why the cops were called. It has nothing to do with xenophobia or conservatives.

That's exactly my point-an elementary school SHOULD be equipped to handle this situation. Calling the cops on a tantrumming six year old is ridiculous and misguided. As far as my comment about xenophopia, it was in reference to the PPs who responded to this story thinking it was a good thing that the cops were called, not so much the actual story itself which is again an example of very poorly trained teachers and administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is, after working with children for over twenty years, calling the police would have never, EVER even occurred to me even if I had tried all the means you described above. Do you really think the child wouldn't have calmed down after a period of time? If the bear hug approach didn't work, what about placing her in room where she could do no harm to herself or others? This is assuming that this child was really capable of doing serious harm to others. Again, if we don't realize that this is not an indictment of a six year old's behavior but an indictment of how adults handled it, we are lost.

You're assuming this was a "normal" child. No, she would not have necessarily have just "calmed down" eventually-- and what if she hurt herself or someone else in the mean time? Your 20 years of experience doesn't add up to a hill of beans if someone ends up seriously injured.

I agree, and I'm an educator.

Imagine YOUR child being in that class. I wonder how calm you would be if that same incident occurred in your child's classroom. Who cares what the root of the behavior is at that point; get her out of the room and find help. Calling an ambulance would have been the right thing to do if restraining her didn't calm her down.

You do what you can to protect the majority. simple fact . . .

Should I let a fight occur btw. two senior boys in my classroom b/c it would seem too outrageous to call security - and perhaps even the police? (which has happened in my school)

No wonder the system is falling apart at the seems. You can't save the world, hon, but you can do your best to ensure that most feel secure in their environment - b/c w/o a safe environment, there's no learning going on.

If my child was in that class, I'd have a vested interest in knowing that the kid was getting help that was research based and likely to work, because she'll surely be back.. Scared straight programs don't work, research shows that. Kids don't get the message "Don't do that" they get the message that "you're the kind of person who belongs in jail" and they conform their behavior to the expectations. Furthermore, destroying the school's relationship with the parent isn't going to help.

That line makes me laugh!

It takes two to tango. When a child has been in trouble throughout his/her academic career and parents have been called for many, many meetings, do you honestly think there was a relationship to begin with?

Have you tried calling home only to get a non-working number?

Have you used translators b/c of language barriers?

Have you tried to contact parents but b/c of odd work hours could never connect?

I could give a million reasons why some relationships are just not meant to be. So please don't blame the teachers and administrators for "destroying" a relationship.

Yes actually, I'm the author of this post and also the one above where I stated that I was a special educator and that I thought an ambulance should have been called, and I'm also the poster who replied to the question about what happens if you call for an ambulance for a mental health crisis.

Developing relationships with parents is a huge part of what I do, and for that matter, what the general education teachers at my school do. Sometimes that means making home visits, sometimes that means calling from home in the evening, sometimes it means using translators. And sometimes it takes years to gain a parent's trust and form a relationship. But even with parents who are challenging, and as a specialist in Emotional Disturbance I see my fair share, you can build relationships.

This child hasn't been in trouble "throughout her academic career", she's been in trouble for about 3/4 of Kindergarten, a little less than 6% of her "academic career". The school and the school system may need to work on their relationship with this family for a large portion of that time. Giving up on anything 6% of the way through is unacceptable.

What's your case load? In high school, if some of these kids miraculously reach this level, that is, relationships with parents are dead. plain and simple

Even during articulation, if you are able to talk to the middle school feeders, you'll hear the same story.

The fact of the matter is this - In low-performing clusters, where FARMs are high - it is IMPOSSIBLE to save every child. That's the sad, ugly truth. I've seen elementary school colleagues kill themselves over a few sad cases, only to give up b/c the child has moved, which is often the case.

I don't know much about the child's school in this post, but I wonder just how difficult the population is. So unless you have a team of teachers and administrators trained in restraint and in collaborative processes that benefit students, you will see more and more negative outcomes with regard to children who act out.

It starts with the family MOST of the time. And I am almost certain that this child comes from a dysfunctional environment. So take her times5 and see if one teacher can function in that class.

It's not that easy, PP, to solve these problems - even IF you start interventions early. Unless the parents are WILLING and ABLE to step in, you'll lose the majority of these kids. I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

Of course the school isn't equipped to handle this situation! That's why the cops were called. It has nothing to do with xenophobia or conservatives.

That's exactly my point-an elementary school SHOULD be equipped to handle this situation. Calling the cops on a tantrumming six year old is ridiculous and misguided. As far as my comment about xenophopia, it was in reference to the PPs who responded to this story thinking it was a good thing that the cops were called, not so much the actual story itself which is again an example of very poorly trained teachers and administrators.

That was not tantruming, that was raging and general school should not be expected to handle those situations. Tantruming is normal, raging is not. I can tell a lot of people on this thread don't know the difference and haven't seen a child raging. It's frightening and disturbing.

[Anonymous]

What's even more frightening and disturbing is handcuffing a six year old and taking them to jail. I'm sorry you don't understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What's your case load? In high school, if some of these kids miraculously reach this level, that is, relationships with parents are dead. plain and simple

My caseload is about 50 kids, spread out in an inclusive urban elementary school of about 600 kids. I'm not arguing about high school. This isn't about whether it's sometimes necessary to handcuff high school students. The discussion is about a kindergartener. I also can't, unfortunately, argue that there will be kids with whom I fail, or parents with whom I fail to form a relationship. But that doesn't mean that it's OK to not try. My 20+ years of experience tells me that you can't look at a 5 year old and predict outcomes. We have kids at our school who struggled, and whose parents didn't help, where the situation completely turned around, and other kids who seemed far less concerning at 5 who have continued to go downhill.

Even during articulation, if you are able to talk to the middle school feeders, you'll hear the same story.

The fact of the matter is this - In low-performing clusters, where FARMs are high - it is IMPOSSIBLE to save every child. That's the sad, ugly truth. I've seen elementary school colleagues kill themselves over a few sad cases, only to give up b/c the child has moved, which is often the case.

I don't know much about the child's school in this post, but I wonder just how difficult the population is. So unless you have a team of teachers and administrators trained in restraint and in collaborative processes that benefit students, you will see more and more negative outcomes with regard to children who act out.

It starts with the family MOST of the time. And I am almost certain that this child comes from a dysfunctional environment. So take her times5 and see if one teacher can function in that class.

Yes, it usually does. That doesn't mean that the school can't attempt to be part of the solution. I don't understand the attitude that many teachers seem to have which is that they didn't cause it so it's not their problem. Oncologists don't cause cancer, dentists don't cause cavities, and environmentalists don't cause pollution, but all of them work on solving these issues, and teachers and administrators need to take a role in helping kids who suffer due to chaotic parenting, and broken communities. As far as what goes on in the classroom, this is not going to make things better. They've taken a little girl and told her "this is who we see you as, this is who you are", and trust me when I say she will likely live down to that expectation. They've communicated to the parent that they think the child is 'bad' that the issue is one that should be punished, and not addressed therapeutically or perhaps even medically. That's not going to lead to help for her.

It's not that easy, PP, to solve these problems - even IF you start interventions early. Unless the parents are WILLING and ABLE to step in, you'll lose the majority of these kids. I know.

[b]Being a parent who steps up and helps is a skill, it's something parents learn over time, and it starts with building trust. In my school, I can point to so many families where we've worked with years. When their oldest was in Headstart or kindergarten we were throwing up our hands, but little by little things change. We might reap the benefits of that trust in 3rd grade, or 5th. We might see the results with little sibling number 2 or 3 or 4. It takes time. Again, do I save every kid? No. Do I form working relationships with every parent? No. Do I give up with a Kindergartener and decide that it's OK to cause irreparable harm to that relationship? In Kindergarten? No.

I can't judge the school for what happened leading up to this event, because I don't know what happened.. It sounds like the police were part of the bad decision making process too. But calling an ambulance instead of a squad car takes the same amount of time, and it protects the child's physical safety, and emotional safety far better. It also communicates clearly to the parent "we think your child has a problem, we want you to get her help, we're working with you to make that happen." as opposed to "your child is bad".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well of course at this point the good old boys in Milledgeville GA are going to cover their asses with a story like this. Sorry to inject a little common sense into this discussion, but handcuffs, police cars and holding cells are for criminals, not for six year olds who weigh about 100 lbs. Again, if you think this story is about the bad behavior of a kindergartener with family problems and not about a school system totally unequipped to deal with it, you're totally missing the point. If anything, this thread continues to reveal the xenophopia of some supposedly educated conservatives who live in DC.

Of course the school isn't equipped to handle this situation! That's why the cops were called. It has nothing to do with xenophobia or conservatives.

That's exactly my point-an elementary school SHOULD be equipped to handle this situation. Calling the cops on a tantrumming six year old is ridiculous and misguided. As far as my comment about xenophopia, it was in reference to the PPs who responded to this story thinking it was a good thing that the cops were called, not so much the actual story itself which is again an example of very poorly trained teachers and administrators.

Exactly how should a teacher or Principal handle a raging 6, or 16 year old? Please enlighten us. Because the teachers I know get threatened with a lawsuit for so much as *touching* a child. I personally know a FCPS teacher who pulled an elementary school aged child off of another child. Child # 1 was attacking child #2 - made #2 BLEED. Nonetheless the parents of the child who attacked were so pissed they insisted on meetings with the school, threatened a lawsuit, and the teacher had to apologize and hire an attorney. Just for trying to keep child #2 from being hurt any more than they already were.

I agree with you that having to involve the police is absurd. But really we have tied the hands of teachers. They can't do anything anymore without having tobe seriously afriad for their jobs and livelihood.