When you think of Africans

[Anonymous]

"A poem by the name of "I Can" created the term African American in 1987. The poem was written by Johnny Duncan. It appeared in The 1987 Black History Calendar, and all subsequent editions through 1993.

While taking infantry training at Ft. Benning, Georgia, Duncan came across an anonymous sign that read: "The last 4 letters of American spell I Can." In 1987 Duncan set out to compose a poem based on that slogan. In the midst writing, he realized that the last four letter of African also spelled "i can." So in line twenty-five of the poem, Duncan wrote, The last 4 letter of my heritage and my creed spell "i can", heritage being Afr-i-can and creed being Amer-i-can.

Jesse Jackson saw a copy of the poem in 1989 Black History Calendar that Duncan sent to Mrs Coretta King. Jackson then collaborated with Ramona Edelin and others and made the push to use the term Afr-i-can Amer-i-can. The rest is Afr-i-can Amer-i-can History!
Johnny Duncan, when he created the term, defined African Americans as "the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora who inhabit the Americas", not just the United States."


Found this on the web, can we end the debate now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"A poem by the name of "I Can" created the term African American in 1987. The poem was written by Johnny Duncan. It appeared in The 1987 Black History Calendar, and all subsequent editions through 1993.

While taking infantry training at Ft. Benning, Georgia, Duncan came across an anonymous sign that read: "The last 4 letters of American spell I Can." In 1987 Duncan set out to compose a poem based on that slogan. In the midst writing, he realized that the last four letter of African also spelled "i can." So in line twenty-five of the poem, Duncan wrote, The last 4 letter of my heritage and my creed spell "i can", heritage being Afr-i-can and creed being Amer-i-can.

Jesse Jackson saw a copy of the poem in 1989 Black History Calendar that Duncan sent to Mrs Coretta King. Jackson then collaborated with Ramona Edelin and others and made the push to use the term Afr-i-can Amer-i-can. The rest is Afr-i-can Amer-i-can History!
Johnny Duncan, when he created the term, defined African Americans as "the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora who inhabit the Americas", not just the United States."


Found this on the web, can we end the debate now.

What's your conclusion, based on this?

[Anonymous]

Neither the Caribbean or countries in Africa are apart of the Americas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we stop with the chain-dragging debate? I want to get back to the question of where it says or what authority there is that black Americans whose African ancestors came from the Caribbean are not African American. I've seen that sentiment repeated several times on this thread as if it is the gospel truth, but no one has said where that particular definition comes from.

I think someone provided a link to a wikipedia entry in a previous poster. The whole idea is crazy.

- A pround AA woman (whose parents were born in Jamaica)

Yes, I read the wikipedia definition - it actually said that AA is a US citizen/resident with at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. So by that definition, Obama is AA, I am AA (Bahamian ancestry) and you are AA. But there has been a lot of insistence that this is not the case, so I want to know what the source of that insistence is.

Doesn't matter what anyone says. You two will persist with your AA declarations. Have at it. And while you're at it, READ some scholarly articles and actually learn the history of the term if you're going to label yourself with it.

If you link me some, I will. The bit of research I've done (admittedly, all internet searches spurred by this thread) has turned up nothing to indicate that the definition that you're advancing is somehow more legitimate or correct than a definition that includes all black Americans. Apparently, the term originated in a poem and the author defined African Americans as "the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora who inhabit the Americas." I don't know why I'm so riled up about this, but it really bothers me that there are other black people out there who are telling me I can't use this term merely because my slave ancestors were plunked down on a different piece of land than theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we stop with the chain-dragging debate? I want to get back to the question of where it says or what authority there is that black Americans whose African ancestors came from the Caribbean are not African American. I've seen that sentiment repeated several times on this thread as if it is the gospel truth, but no one has said where that particular definition comes from.

I think someone provided a link to a wikipedia entry in a previous poster. The whole idea is crazy.

- A pround AA woman (whose parents were born in Jamaica)

Yes, I read the wikipedia definition - it actually said that AA is a US citizen/resident with at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. So by that definition, Obama is AA, I am AA (Bahamian ancestry) and you are AA. But there has been a lot of insistence that this is not the case, so I want to know what the source of that insistence is.

Doesn't matter what anyone says. You two will persist with your AA declarations. Have at it. And while you're at it, READ some scholarly articles and actually learn the history of the term if you're going to label yourself with it.

If you link me some, I will. The bit of research I've done (admittedly, all internet searches spurred by this thread) has turned up nothing to indicate that the definition that you're advancing is somehow more legitimate or correct than a definition that includes all black Americans. Apparently, the term originated in a poem and the author defined African Americans as "the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora who inhabit the Americas." I don't know why I'm so riled up about this, but it really bothers me that there are other black people out there who are telling me I can't use this term merely because my slave ancestors were plunked down on a different piece of land than theirs.

What do you take from Duncan's definition? Doesn't the very definition prove what I've been saying? Are you now saying that the inventor of the term is somehow wrong in what he meant?

And why would you be riled up? I know some Africans, Jamaicans, Haitians, Ghanians, etc who are ADAMANT that they aren't African-American. It doesn't offend/upset me in the slightest. Why would it?

This is NOT something to which you need to take offense. The term African American was all about US blacks having a sense of connection with our ancestors. We, for the most part, remain very much in the dark about our history. Our beginnings in this country were filled with violence, separation and despair. The term African American is used to honor our ancestors who toiled to help build what we now get to enjoy today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we stop with the chain-dragging debate? I want to get back to the question of where it says or what authority there is that black Americans whose African ancestors came from the Caribbean are not African American. I've seen that sentiment repeated several times on this thread as if it is the gospel truth, but no one has said where that particular definition comes from.

I think someone provided a link to a wikipedia entry in a previous poster. The whole idea is crazy.

- A pround AA woman (whose parents were born in Jamaica)

Yes, I read the wikipedia definition - it actually said that AA is a US citizen/resident with at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. So by that definition, Obama is AA, I am AA (Bahamian ancestry) and you are AA. But there has been a lot of insistence that this is not the case, so I want to know what the source of that insistence is.

Doesn't matter what anyone says. You two will persist with your AA declarations. Have at it. And while you're at it, READ some scholarly articles and actually learn the history of the term if you're going to label yourself with it.

If you link me some, I will. The bit of research I've done (admittedly, all internet searches spurred by this thread) has turned up nothing to indicate that the definition that you're advancing is somehow more legitimate or correct than a definition that includes all black Americans. Apparently, the term originated in a poem and the author defined African Americans as "the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora who inhabit the Americas." I don't know why I'm so riled up about this, but it really bothers me that there are other black people out there who are telling me I can't use this term merely because my slave ancestors were plunked down on a different piece of land than theirs.

What do you take from Duncan's definition? Doesn't the very definition prove what I've been saying? Are you now saying that the inventor of the term is somehow wrong in what he meant?

And why would you be riled up? I know some Africans, Jamaicans, Haitians, Ghanians, etc who are ADAMANT that they aren't African-American. It doesn't offend/upset me in the slightest. Why would it?

This is NOT something to which you need to take offense. The term African American was all about US blacks having a sense of connection with our ancestors. We, for the most part, remain very much in the dark about our history. Our beginnings in this country were filled with violence, separation and despair. The term African American is used to honor our ancestors who toiled to help build what we now get to enjoy today.

We must be talking past each other. You (or other pps) seem to have said in previous posts that the ONLY way to call yourself AA is if your slave ancestors were slaves in the US. Duncan's definition is quite clearly broader than that - his definition would include the descendants of African immigrants who were never slaves in the western hemisphere, and it would certainly include people whose ancestors were African slaves in other parts of the world. So his definition does not prove what you have been saying, unless I have misunderstood your point.

[Anonymous]

"What do you take from Duncan's definition? Doesn't the very definition prove what I've been saying? Are you now saying that the inventor of the term is somehow wrong in what he meant? "


Duncan used the term "Americas", he did not say USA. Last time I checked the Americas includes Canada, USA, the countries in Central and South America and yes, the islands in the Caribbean. Look it up.

[Anonymous]

I encourage you all to read some scholarly articles and/or visit CityData (there are some great folks there who know their AA stuff).

"Duncan created the term Afr-i-can Amer-i-can to describe the children of the descendants of the African Diaspora in the Americas."

If you want to believe that this included places other than the US, that's up to you. But it's not true based on scholarly work that I've read and/or intellectual honesty. It's also not true based on the origin of the term and the unique experience of US blacks.

Once you've actually done some reading past random Internet search pages, you can make an informed decision. Until then, nothing I say to the contrary will convince you, so why bother?

Again, READ, EDUCATE yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are DEFINITELY white. LOL...Why do you even care about this issue? You aren't black, you aren't African-American....and you aren't a factor in this discussion. Please note that the days of whites telling blacks what we're allowed to call ourselves are long over. You are about 60 years too late in the making.

NP here - but it appears the only person who is telling others what they call themselves is you. You have a problen with 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of African immigrants referring to themselves as African American. Or rather, you say, "well, they can self-identify as AA, but that's not the correct usage of the term."

The only problem is, the "authority" (not that I consider Wikipedia an authority on anything, but you brought it up) directly contradicts your statement: "African Americans (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans, and formerly as American Negroes) are citizens or residents of the United States who have at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa."

So now you've resorted to dismissing other posters' statements with, "You must be white so your opinion doesn't matter." The lack of intellectual integrity is stunning.

I'm simply providing the definition. Don't blame me if you don't like this definition. It is what it is.

I'm EXTREMELY proud of my ancestors and the way in which they persevered in the US. I honor them by calling myself African American. So, while I don't begrudge anyone the right to call themselves African American, I don't get why they would even need/want to. Doesn't make any sense at all. What's even more ironic is that most African/Caribbean immigrants don't want to be called AAs and recognize that they aren't. The only ones bent out of shape are folks who were misguided in their Black American identity.

Oh here we go, Sistah Souljah over here. "You don't begrudge anyone calling themselves African American but you don't get why they would need to, doesnt' make sense at all" , if that's not a contradictory statement, I don't know what is.

You seem to think you have dibs on that term - African American-, that is the part I don't get. If you are so insistent on honoring your ancestors, wouldn't you be proud that other people want to be associated with that term? Isn't imitation the highest form of flattery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What do you take from Duncan's definition? Doesn't the very definition prove what I've been saying? Are you now saying that the inventor of the term is somehow wrong in what he meant? "


Duncan used the term "Americas", he did not say USA. Last time I checked the Americas includes Canada, USA, the countries in Central and South America and yes, the islands in the Caribbean. Look it up.

Moreover, the African Diaspora is not limited to those who were enslaved and brought to the Americas. So really, wrong on both counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine, I'll just call everyone black, because who knows whose ancestor is what.

Dumbest stuff ever.

Do you feel the same way about folks calling themselves Irish-Americans, Italian-American, Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans, etc?

Of course not. They don't tie their ethnic designation to something so arbitrary as how they got here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are DEFINITELY white. LOL...Why do you even care about this issue? You aren't black, you aren't African-American....and you aren't a factor in this discussion. Please note that the days of whites telling blacks what we're allowed to call ourselves are long over. You are about 60 years too late in the making.

NP here - but it appears the only person who is telling others what they call themselves is you. You have a problen with 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of African immigrants referring to themselves as African American. Or rather, you say, "well, they can self-identify as AA, but that's not the correct usage of the term."

The only problem is, the "authority" (not that I consider Wikipedia an authority on anything, but you brought it up) directly contradicts your statement: "African Americans (also referred to as Black Americans or Afro-Americans, and formerly as American Negroes) are citizens or residents of the United States who have at least partial ancestry from any of the native populations of Sub-Saharan Africa."

So now you've resorted to dismissing other posters' statements with, "You must be white so your opinion doesn't matter." The lack of intellectual integrity is stunning.

I'm simply providing the definition. Don't blame me if you don't like this definition. It is what it is.

I'm EXTREMELY proud of my ancestors and the way in which they persevered in the US. I honor them by calling myself African American. So, while I don't begrudge anyone the right to call themselves African American, I don't get why they would even need/want to. Doesn't make any sense at all. What's even more ironic is that most African/Caribbean immigrants don't want to be called AAs and recognize that they aren't. The only ones bent out of shape are folks who were misguided in their Black American identity.

Oh here we go, Sistah Souljah over here. "You don't begrudge anyone calling themselves African American but you don't get why they would need to, doesnt' make sense at all" , if that's not a contradictory statement, I don't know what is.

You seem to think you have dibs on that term - African American-, that is the part I don't get. If you are so insistent on honoring your ancestors, wouldn't you be proud that other people want to be associated with that term? Isn't imitation the highest form of flattery?

OMG....What is wrong with you? Trust me, in America, being African-American is no damn prize. So, cool it with the "dibs on AA" term. Do you honestly think a racist cares if I'm AA vs. Jamaican?

Your need to name call shows your insecurity on this issue. I suggest you read up and educate yourself. Visit Ebsco and get you some scholarly articles. I don't engage in a debate with people who sink to name calling, so........enjoy that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine, I'll just call everyone black, because who knows whose ancestor is what.

Dumbest stuff ever.

Do you feel the same way about folks calling themselves Irish-Americans, Italian-American, Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans, etc?

Of course not. They don't tie their ethnic designation to something so arbitrary as how they got here.

They do it for the same reason that AAs do it; to honor their ancestors. I'm sorry you don't see the similarity (but quite frankly, I'm not surprised).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What do you take from Duncan's definition? Doesn't the very definition prove what I've been saying? Are you now saying that the inventor of the term is somehow wrong in what he meant? "


Duncan used the term "Americas", he did not say USA. Last time I checked the Americas includes Canada, USA, the countries in Central and South America and yes, the islands in the Caribbean. Look it up.

Moreover, the African Diaspora is not limited to those who were enslaved and brought to the Americas. So really, wrong on both counts.

How can I be wrong when I never even attempted to define the diaspora? Oh boy........

[Anonymous]

I have a feeling I'm going back and forward with the same two Jamaican/something else women. This is no longer an exercise in education, but rather one to argue and nitpick.

So.......I'm out. But in the meantime, READ people and for the love of God, LEARN.