Why don't you believe in God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the first thread on DCUM I've read where I've felt "aha ... there ARE people like me out there".

I look forward to atheism being more acceptable in society.

There are, and have been, many societies that found atheism acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once you postulate energy, you can use many world theories, etc to maybe explain everything else. But you are still left with "who created god", just rephrased as "why is there energy (=anything)?"

It's just question-begging to say those are equivalent questions. Who invented Poseidon, smarty pants?

Poseidon? The Greeks, I guess. or the Etruscans? My comment doesn't claim there is "God", and especially not an anthropomorphic God. But it does mean to imply that there is a mystery that I do not think can ever be explained by physics. Just because, in the past, we did not yet have the right language/knowledge to ask the right question (and probably still don't) doesn't mean the question we were trying to ask, with "God", wasn't a legitimate question, however ill-phrased and clogged with artifacts produced by our experience and humanity, our attempt was (and still is).

Right, but the problem is that "god" always stays a half-step ahead of physics. And he goes from being a personal savior and creator of the universe to being an alternate universe black hole--giving "birth" to our universe. Of course, once we chase him down there, God becomes the force behind the other force. Ad infinitum. He's a poetic conceit.

[Anonymous]

13:14, a lot of us have done that. The result? Nothing.

I had some religious feelings as a kid. I've tried to get them back. I am open to god. But I do not have faith.

It may take a conscious effort for YOU to not believe but for me the reverse is true. And, indeed, what you are suggesting is a conscious effort TO believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

As long as a single middle-aged man invents some story to explain something he doesn't understand out of whole cloth, societies will have "gods". As you say, it's universal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:14, a lot of us have done that. The result? Nothing.

I had some religious feelings as a kid. I've tried to get them back. I am open to god. But I do not have faith.

It may take a conscious effort for YOU to not believe but for me the reverse is true. And, indeed, what you are suggesting is a conscious effort TO believe.

Agreed. I also tried in my mid teens. Opened myself up to it, first by myself and then through a church youth group. Came up with nothing but a distaste for the completely bigoted people I met along the way. Not saying relgious people are all like that ... just an anecdote of my experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:13:14, a lot of us have done that. The result? Nothing.

I had some religious feelings as a kid. I've tried to get them back. I am open to god. But I do not have faith.

It may take a conscious effort for YOU to not believe but for me the reverse is true. And, indeed, what you are suggesting is a conscious effort TO believe.

Exactly. The child believes what his parent tells him. If you grow up with your parents indoctrinating you in religion, it takes a conscious effort not to believe. If not, the opposite is true. This is why "believers" get so worked up about the indoctrination of children. The future of religion is at stake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've found, totally anecdotally of course, that those who rail most against people with faith are those who struggle with it themselves at a certain level. As someone who does not believe in God and doesn't struggle at all with the question, I don't have any snarkiness or disdain for those who do. As PP mentioned, I think it could be comforting to have such beliefs. But, I'm not hardwired to have them. I wonder if there is a God gene or a series of God genes. What makes some people capable of believing and others not capable? It's not entirely upbringing and I'm sure it's not entirely genetic. Maybe it's some combo?

Maybe some, not all, hardcore religious people have a gene similar to an addiction gene. A guy I went to high school with was really into drugs, drinking, etc. while in high school. Then when I ran into him a couple years after he graduated, he had completely cleaned up and "found god". He is now born again christian and very active in his evangelical church. This may be an extreme example, but DH and I have known other people with similar stories.

I know several people like this as well, including a family member. Hell, look at the 12 step programs, rambling on about "God" and a "Power."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

Buddhists do this all the time but they don't call it "finding god" they call it "seeking enlightenment".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

Buddhists do this all the time but they don't call it "finding god" they call it "seeking enlightenment".

Argument from universal belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

Buddhists do this all the time but they don't call it "finding god" they call it "seeking enlightenment".

Argument from universal belief.

There's a ghost that lives in my house. He can do all sorts of amazing things. Everyone who lives here believes in him. Ask me how I know? I just know. You could see him too if you'd just open yourself to believing.

P.S. I don't mean to denigrate your beliefs, which clearly are quite dearly held, but this is really quite comical:

"I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator."

[Anonymous]

OP, and I have a moment while the kids are content to address PP's question: can there be objective Truth apart from God?

There is no way I (or anyone) can answer this with a soundbite. All of Western philosophy has grappled with this question. But I can offer a quotation from one of my favorite authors, about why this question is worth asking at all:

"If Truth is objective, if we live in a world we did not create and cannot change merely by thinking, if the world is not really a dream of our own, then the most destructive belief we could ever possibly believe would be the denial of this primary fact. It would be like closing your eyes while driving, or blissfully ignoring the doctor's warnings."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, and I have a moment while the kids are content to address PP's question: can there be objective Truth apart from God?

There is no way I (or anyone) can answer this with a soundbite. All of Western philosophy has grappled with this question. But I can offer a quotation from one of my favorite authors, about why this question is worth asking at all:

"If Truth is objective, if we live in a world we did not create and cannot change merely by thinking, if the world is not really a dream of our own, then the most destructive belief we could ever possibly believe would be the denial of this primary fact. It would be like closing your eyes while driving, or blissfully ignoring the doctor's warnings."

Perhaps you could rephrase this in your own words. The author seems to confound a whole bunch of concepts. (I'm guessing CS Lewis.) In any case, the idea that truth is subjective certainly doesn't imply that "we live in a world we created and can change things merely by thinking." Not in the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, and I have a moment while the kids are content to address PP's question: can there be objective Truth apart from God?

There is no way I (or anyone) can answer this with a soundbite. All of Western philosophy has grappled with this question. But I can offer a quotation from one of my favorite authors, about why this question is worth asking at all:

"If Truth is objective, if we live in a world we did not create and cannot change merely by thinking, if the world is not really a dream of our own, then the most destructive belief we could ever possibly believe would be the denial of this primary fact. It would be like closing your eyes while driving, or blissfully ignoring the doctor's warnings."

I'm not seeing how this quotation addresses the point. I believe in an objective external reality, including an objective human morality. I don't need a sentient creator or master of the universe to hold these beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

Te reason why we see myths of gods in every society is because humans tend to fill in their lack of knowledge with a god. And as soon as the real explanation is found, there is no more need for a god. We see this with many early civilizations - and I have no doubt it's the same type of situation with modern day gods and religions.

As for you "I know" - no you don't. You believe based on pre conceived assumptions with a splash of confirmation bias. In fact, there's no evidence that a "spirit" or "soul" exists in the first place.

[Anonymous]

This to me is one of the saddest topics. I do believe in God and even though I can't see him, I know he is there. I also believe in the Bible. I just don;t even know what to say.