MOCO parents - how much are we willing to put up with??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, are you the topic police?

I am asking where all these entitled teachers work to be sure that I don't end up with a big house in their cluster. Seems like a straightforward question.

I agree. The question makes a lot of sense. What some teachers from great school districts apparently do not understand is that rich people taxes help MoCo a lot.

[Anonymous]

makes the complaints harder to take.....


What complaints? That you would like teachers to have no retirement and being paid less than minimum wage...and why...because you pay taxes??? Why don't you place your anger for paying taxes on someone else like your elected congressman? Take a look into those benefits (paid off student loans, triple retirement than most, etc. etc. ) and leave the teachers alone.

[Anonymous]

talking about teacher quality, attracting highly qualified people, retention and continuity, benefits to kids of smaller classes, etc. etc.

Complaining about retirement benefits to a bunch of people who just lost half the value of their 401ks is not going to get teachers anywhere, no matter how unjust it is that their collective bargaining rights are getting taken away by ideologues.

How on earth do you believe that society gets teacher quality and retention and continuity for your children?

[Anonymous]

it makes a $65K salary into an effective $90K salary.

I think teachers are worth that and should be paid well, but it puts it into perspective and makes the complaints harder to take.

Puts what into perspective? That senior teachers should take a 15K pay cut after working their butts off for 20 years because MOCO politicians were not fiscally responsible and didn't bother to pay into the retirement funds. So the teachers should bear the burden and not complain????? Seriously???

[Anonymous]

PP, could you please explain to me how senior teachers are taking a $15K pay cut?

This is a sincere question.

I have heard teachers say they were taking a pay cut and it turns out that they haven't received COLA increases in a number of years and they are calling that a pay cut. That's not good but it's not the same as a pay cut.

If this is what you're talking about, it's another example of how the argument getting distorted. The result is that people like me who support teachers feel burned.

And I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I think we should pay teachers well and give them good benefits so that we will get the quality and retention I mentioned. I SUPPORT THAT. But I think the arguments currently being made by many teachers' groups actually erode support because they take the "poor us" approach and there are lots of people out there who also feel that they have lost a lot in this poor economy, etc.

From a purely PR perspective, the teachers' unions have to figure out another approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:makes the complaints harder to take.....


What complaints? That you would like teachers to have no retirement and being paid less than minimum wage...and why...because you pay taxes??? Why don't you place your anger for paying taxes on someone else like your elected congressman? Take a look into those benefits (paid off student loans, triple retirement than most, etc. etc. ) and leave the teachers alone.

New poster here - hyperbole doesn't help either. The federal (and Maryland) minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. Let's say teachers work 12 hours per day - that's $87 per day. The school year is 180 days long - let's say teachers work 200 days per year - that's $17, 400 a year. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure no MoCo teacher is paid less that $18,000 each year. So please tamp down the rhetoric.

Ignoring budget realities isn't going to help anyone. How we got here is less important than what's going to happen going forward. As I understand it, teachers aren't being asked to shoulder a disproportionate part of the MOCO budget crunch. So, Ms. Teacher who doesn't think teachers' salaries/benefits should be affected at all - what is your proposed alternative? What county workers should should suffer extra benefit cuts so teachers aren't affected? Police? Fire Department? Road crew? Who? What county services should be cut? Or is your proposed solution to just raise taxes so that current salary/benefit/service levels can be continued? Because the money has to come from SOMEWHERE. Ignoring that reality, and just repeating, over and over, that teachers are critically important (they are) and perform a vital service (they do) in effect just argues that others should suffer more so you don't have to. If that's your position, fine - but it's not realistic, and certainly isn't going to win you many friends or supporters.

So - what are your budget proposals?

[Anonymous]

10:59 here

I would support a modest tax increase to support teachers, firefighters, policeman.

I look around and I honestly can't say that I think MoCo is doing a lot of extravagant spending. But the pension issue has to be dealt with, one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:makes the complaints harder to take.....


What complaints? That you would like teachers to have no retirement and being paid less than minimum wage...and why...because you pay taxes??? Why don't you place your anger for paying taxes on someone else like your elected congressman? Take a look into those benefits (paid off student loans, triple retirement than most, etc. etc. ) and leave the teachers alone.

New poster here - hyperbole doesn't help either. The federal (and Maryland) minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. Let's say teachers work 12 hours per day - that's $87 per day. The school year is 180 days long - let's say teachers work 200 days per year - that's $17, 400 a year. I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure no MoCo teacher is paid less that $18,000 each year. So please tamp down the rhetoric.

Ignoring budget realities isn't going to help anyone. How we got here is less important than what's going to happen going forward. As I understand it, teachers aren't being asked to shoulder a disproportionate part of the MOCO budget crunch. So, Ms. Teacher who doesn't think teachers' salaries/benefits should be affected at all - what is your proposed alternative? What county workers should should suffer extra benefit cuts so teachers aren't affected? Police? Fire Department? Road crew? Who? What county services should be cut? Or is your proposed solution to just raise taxes so that current salary/benefit/service levels can be continued? Because the money has to come from SOMEWHERE. Ignoring that reality, and just repeating, over and over, that teachers are critically important (they are) and perform a vital service (they do) in effect just argues that others should suffer more so you don't have to. If that's your position, fine - but it's not realistic, and certainly isn't going to win you many friends or supporters.

Not PP, but I would consider cutting:

*MCPS Central Office - I can tell you that there is a LOT of waste there.
*Jerry Weast's PR people ($9M/year right there) and additional "research" departments which are not transparent to the taxpaying public

And why does the superintendent, who serves (with a $500K annual salary plus tremendous benefits) for a relatively short time get such great pension benefits?



So - what are your budget proposals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:59 here

I would support a modest tax increase to support teachers, firefighters, policeman.

I look around and I honestly can't say that I think MoCo is doing a lot of extravagant spending. But the pension issue has to be dealt with, one way or another.

Here's the thing, though. There are no taxes left to be raised. They are all pretty much at their legal limits.

[Anonymous]

It boils down to respect.

Teachers are not paid well. Of course if you compare Mo Co to Frederick, our salaries are better. But MANY teachers - especially new teachers - don't live in Mo Co b/c simply can't afford to. Furthermore, if you have a two-teacher family, you're not exactly living high on the hog. We've vacationed twice with our kids in the 7 years we've been married. And we're not talking extravagant trips.

So it's sickening and judgmental to claim that b/c our healthcare and pensions are so good that we DESERVE to have lower salaries. And now that they're looking into cuts, the public, who just loves to get in their digs, is fully supportive of these cuts b/c we've had it "so good" all along.

Again, keep in mind that you won't retain good teachers with this arrogant attitude. At this point, we're looking to move away from Mo Co b/c we've been treated so poorly by our county, despite how hard and how long we've worked with YOUR children. I, for one, will not place my own kids in a Mo Co school b/c it's a shinking ship. And I can only blame those who cannot see how important our children are.

So either start saving up for tuition or find another county. You get what you "pay" for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It boils down to respect.

Teachers are not paid well. Of course if you compare Mo Co to Frederick, our salaries are better. But MANY teachers - especially new teachers - don't live in Mo Co b/c simply can't afford to. Furthermore, if you have a two-teacher family, you're not exactly living high on the hog. We've vacationed twice with our kids in the 7 years we've been married. And we're not talking extravagant trips.

So it's sickening and judgmental to claim that b/c our healthcare and pensions are so good that we DESERVE to have lower salaries. And now that they're looking into cuts, the public, who just loves to get in their digs, is fully supportive of these cuts b/c we've had it "so good" all along.

Again, keep in mind that you won't retain good teachers with this arrogant attitude. At this point, we're looking to move away from Mo Co b/c we've been treated so poorly by our county, despite how hard and how long we've worked with YOUR children. I, for one, will not place my own kids in a Mo Co school b/c it's a shinking ship. And I can only blame those who cannot see how important our children are.

So either start saving up for tuition or find another county. You get what you "pay" for.

I just think your post completely misrepresents what's been said before (at least by me). No one has said that teachers deserve to have lower salaries and I don't know anyone who's supportive of these cuts! My posts were making a comparison between non-teacher salaries where those people have higher costs for benefits and retirement. I think it's a fair comparison, and part of the decision-making process when people decide to be teachers. I also was trying to make the point about how teachers' unions approach the argument from a PR perspective.

You seem to be so angry that you can't look objectively at what people are saying. Maybe the school administration is treating you poorly, or maybe you work in a school full of obnoxious, entitled parents, but not all MoCo schools are that way. At our school, parents put a lot of work into showing teachers their appreciation and respect.

It's true, if you have a two-teacher family and you make $140 - $150 a year total, you aren't going to be jetting off to Europe. But you can certainly live comfortably in many nice parts of MoCo if you want to -- just like my family does on a similar income (and high insurance costs and 401k contributions), not to put too fine a point on it). We don't take a lot of big vacations either. I know a lot of people who work in nonprofits in the D.C. area who are paid similar salaries to teachers -- it's tough, as it would be in any big metropolitan area, but they make it work.

If I were in your position, I would be angrier at the extravagant costs of MCPS administration (the mention above of a nine MILLION dollar PR budget is a great example). I am furious that Weast & Co. think it's ok to promote themselves on the taxpayer dime on one hand and cut teacher positions on the other, or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on technology initiatives that are abandoned or unevenly implemented (like Promethean Boards). I think MoCo parents have listened to that PR for far too long.

[Anonymous]

Fully agree with the previous post. Well said.

[Anonymous]

This is like arguing with a 5 year-old kid.

We all respect teachers (now you shout "no, you don't!"). The issue here is that the county needs to adjust and if teachers are treated as sacred then the burden over everything else is too much.

[Anonymous]

The public - with its simplistic view of teaching - is like a 5 yo.

If you truly respected the profession, you'd fight for these children. But with this love of using the hatchet to cut, you're pushing out the very best and the very brightest. It's pathetic that you STILL don't understand that.

sorry fools

Anonymous wrote:This is like arguing with a 5 year-old kid.

We all respect teachers (now you shout "no, you don't!"). The issue here is that the county needs to adjust and if teachers are treated as sacred then the burden over everything else is too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The public - with its simplistic view of teaching - is like a 5 yo.

If you truly respected the profession, you'd fight for these children. But with this love of using the hatchet to cut, you're pushing out the very best and the very brightest. It's pathetic that you STILL don't understand that.

sorry fools

Anonymous wrote:This is like arguing with a 5 year-old kid.

We all respect teachers (now you shout "no, you don't!"). The issue here is that the county needs to adjust and if teachers are treated as sacred then the burden over everything else is too much.

PLEASE please do tell us where you work. Name the school. Do not want DC to end up there with you.