Is it crazy to choose a non-ivy over an ivy

[Anonymous]

Endless bickering by sad losers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid picked UVA over an Ivy.

Ivies have weird vibes these days. My older child is at one. They are often an exceedingly random mix of kids---super academic grinders, underprepared FGLI kids from middle America, ultra wealthy who stick to themselves. It's a odd mix.

This is spot on, add the athlete segment as well.

Many private T20 schools have this odd, social engineering. It makes the schools well rounded on paper, but really uneven in classroom and culture.

Go with fit - this choice is about learning and development, not layman prestige.

Yup. I am a Duke alum who loved my time there and I am hesitant to send my kid there as I think it has really changed for the worse. He is a nice, smart, kind, humble, well-rounded UMC kid. The type who used to make up much of the class at these schools and has been completely squeezed at the expense of the other groups.

Could you expand on how you feel Duke has changed for the worse? Thx

Someone above described it well (though they were likely describing another school). It is really rich kids (including a lot of legacies) in the Greek system who go party in empty fields and at off campus houses, FGLIs who are struggling to keep up and don't fit in (and often make little effort to assimilate and fit in), super intense striver/gunner types who think they are important because they lead the pre-business clubs and things like that. There aren't many "normal" kids who used to make the school great (and please note that many of the "normal" kids I went to school with were black, Asian, etc. - this is not a racial-based opinion). In my era (90s) Duke had a reputation of being pretty fratty and there was definitely that element, but most parties were on campus and very open and there were actually a lot of very normal kids, some of whom were in frats but it wasn't that big of a deal. This element barely exists. Which is sad.

Really helpful, appreciate the color!

So where / what do you think the better schools are for really smart but well rounded kids? (Duke mid 90s seemed great, but I realize the whole landscape is radically different now!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

Your DC should prioritize her best fit and her choice, not anyone else's. And people turn down highly ranked or well hyped schools every day because another school fits them more. It's normal to do that and not just go by some generic ranking or pecking order.

Congrats to your DC on getting into her 1st choice!

My DC is doing it (not with an ivy though). Chose BC over Georgetown. I'm happy about it!

[Anonymous]

My kid choose T20 with merit over two (ED) Ivies. Not sure if what he would have choosen if he got in to HYPMS, but he's happy where he is.

[Anonymous]

Ours chose Pomona over Brown and Cornell. They’re very happy with that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not 1950. There are lots of schools that are as good and often better than the Ivy schools. Job and grad school outcomes are the same. But more important is fit. Both of my kids chose T20 non-Ivy colleges because they were better schools for them and their interests.

These days tons of students choose MIT, Stanford, Vanderbilt, CalTech, Duke, Rice, Williams, Chicago, Pomona, Northwestern, and Notre Dame over Ivy schools. And if they are STEM you can add Georgia Tech, Berkeley, Harvey Mudd, and Michigan to the list. These are all very rational alternatives to the Ivy schools.

That is a lot of copium. There are multiple studies that show ivy+ about 5 other schools do much better for the most elite outcomes than schools not in that group. Half on your list are ivy level and the others are simply not. They are not targets of top companies nor do they place as well into T5 law and med.
Some students chase the very top outcomes and there is nothing wrong with that.
In 2025 and even 2024, a distinct shift toward school name happened, first with CS and now with the rest. Hiring slowed at lower ranked schools first. It will continue. Down economies always lead to a hiring preference from the best schools.

Yes, the median student at an Ivy might do better than the median student at the other schools for T5 law and med school. But OP's kid is NOT the median student; she would be a top student at the T20 / top state school. So you are not comparing apples to apples here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ours chose Pomona over Brown and Cornell. They’re very happy with that choice.

Can you share why they choose P over Brown and Cornell? How similar or different are the 3 schools based on what you saw/learned? Were these all acceptances or this is where your DC chose to ED?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid picked UVA over an Ivy.

Ivies have weird vibes these days. My older child is at one. They are often an exceedingly random mix of kids---super academic grinders, underprepared FGLI kids from middle America, ultra wealthy who stick to themselves. It's a odd mix.

This is nothing new actually. Ivies have long had a very diverse mix of students.

[Anonymous]

No, not at all. I’d choose UVA, USC, UMICH, etc over Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, and Columbia. Only Harvard, Princeton, and maybe Yale & UPenn count as real good Ivys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is facing such a choice. The non-ivy is their first choice and a better fit. But it’s just difficult to ignore the prestige of an ivy.

Your DC should prioritize her best fit and her choice, not anyone else's. And people turn down highly ranked or well hyped schools every day because another school fits them more. It's normal to do that and not just go by some generic ranking or pecking order.

Congrats to your DC on getting into her 1st choice!

My DC is doing it (not with an ivy though). Chose BC over Georgetown. I'm happy about it!

Georgetown in rejoicing - it's no place for MAGA spawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid picked UVA over an Ivy.

Ivies have weird vibes these days. My older child is at one. They are often an exceedingly random mix of kids---super academic grinders, underprepared FGLI kids from middle America, ultra wealthy who stick to themselves. It's a odd mix.

This is spot on, add the athlete segment as well.

Many private T20 schools have this odd, social engineering. It makes the schools well rounded on paper, but really uneven in classroom and culture.

Go with fit - this choice is about learning and development, not layman prestige.

DP I’ve noticed this too. Have first-hand experience with really weird mix of uber wealthy/NYC Boston DC private school/boarding school crowds who like to stick together with their cool weekend trips and exclusive social gatherings; the brilliant kids who work their asses off, hustle at part-time jobs and spend most of their time at the library; and increasingly a fraction of kids who are fish out of water and just not keeping up academically. We have college admins and professors in our family; the last group is becoming an issue.

Wow. Different poster. I could have written this.

-My private school kid hangs out with the first group (uber wealthy/NYC Boston DC private school/boarding school crowd). . I'm not entirely thrilled with it. Most are significant millionaires and my kid is up to 4 billionaire friends (yes, I've looked their parents up on Forbes). The money is obscene. The are all very smart, from top privates/boarding schools, don't study much, do very well, have top internships lined up without effort and don't really associate with anyone else.
-very smart gunner kids who live at the library, lead all the clubs, hustle their asses off for a fraction of the opportunities that group one gets just handed to them.
-FGLI kids who struggle. They get all the Bs and Cs that are given, are in the remedial classes, get ignored by group 1 and mostly by group 2 as well. Often unhappy because they have no disposable income and it's hard to be poor. And having to work hard in classes when a significant number of student (group 1 and much of group 2) do not is hard.
-athletes (their own microcosm especially in the big sports)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid choose T20 with merit over two (ED) Ivies. Not sure if what he would have choosen if he got in to HYPMS, but he's happy where he is.

he applied to two ivies ED?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid choose T20 with merit over two (ED) Ivies. Not sure if what he would have choosen if he got in to HYPMS, but he's happy where he is.

he applied to two ivies ED?

No -- he was accepted at two Ivies that offer ED, not SCEA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern is way superior than Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, and Cornell; and better than Penn in many aspects.

LOLLLL absolutely not. Northwestern is equal to Cornell. Never was a T10. Will never equal Columbia, Penn, Brown, even Dartmouth. It’s never included in the “Ivy+” label for a reason. When a school’s commencement speaker is SJP, you start to question how academically serious that school is…

100x

[Anonymous]

My H picked UVA over Penn & Brown. He has no regrets & is very successful