Do all these APs really pay off/matter?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

Yes, a school could choose to select its class by admitting only students who scored 5 on 18/18 APs by the end of junior year. That school would be very selective and very fair.

Also, that school does not exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matrix:
- at elite private schools APs are important for admissions (if your high school offers them, and with the caveat that there is a point of diminishing returns), but they don’t earn many credits
- at public schools APs are rarely necessary for admissions but can easily earn you 1–2 years of credits
- at low-ranking private schools and high-ranking public schools APs are useful for both admissions and credits

Not true. The kids at Langley and McLean are competing for slots at UVA with 8+ AP courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many AP can one take? I assume there are only 3 semesters, fall, winter and spring? The earliest age to take AP is 9th grader? So, AP is better than Honor?

I am not from here? I am confused with a these AP, honors, electives and different paths.

At our school there is only 1 AP offered in 9th grade. It increases so students can take all AP by grade 11 and 12. Honors is considered more of the college prep course but not as difficult as AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matrix:
- at elite private schools APs are important for admissions (if your high school offers them, and with the caveat that there is a point of diminishing returns), but they don’t earn many credits
- at public schools APs are rarely necessary for admissions but can easily earn you 1–2 years of credits
- at low-ranking private schools and high-ranking public schools APs are useful for both admissions and credits

Not true. The kids at Langley and McLean are competing for slots at UVA with 8+ AP courses

As I said in the text you quoted, “at high-ranking public schools APs are useful for admissions.” UVA is a high-ranking public school. So despite saying “not true,” you actually appear to agree with me 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matrix:
- at elite private schools APs are important for admissions (if your high school offers them, and with the caveat that there is a point of diminishing returns), but they don’t earn many credits
- at public schools APs are rarely necessary for admissions but can easily earn you 1–2 years of credits
- at low-ranking private schools and high-ranking public schools APs are useful for both admissions and credits

Not true. The kids at Langley and McLean are competing for slots at UVA with 8+ AP courses

Does “rarely” = “never” in your world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a matrix:
- at elite private schools APs are important for admissions (if your high school offers them, and with the caveat that there is a point of diminishing returns), but they don’t earn many credits
- at public schools APs are rarely necessary for admissions but can easily earn you 1–2 years of credits
- at low-ranking private schools and high-ranking public schools APs are useful for both admissions and credits

Not true. The kids at Langley and McLean are competing for slots at UVA with 8+ AP courses

As well as all FCPS high schools. Not just Langley and Mclean.

[Anonymous]

From my DD's college acceptance results I would say that taking an AP class is much more important than the score you get on the exam. She took 12 APs, got no higher than a 4 and still got into a lot of great schools. Currently at a top state school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

You do know if you’re not a complete moron who doesn’t know how to interpret data.

AP scholar with distinction is 5 exams, nationally that’s 700,000 out of 4,000,000 students, or 18% according to College Board data.

Our high school is 25% AP scholars, reasonably close to national average. If you consider the population of students applying to college that skews higher grades, more advanced coursework, and 90% of students at our school do, the school is representative.

You can call me all the names you want but you’re making a huge, unsupported leap between a loose correlation in the percentage of AP scholars nationally to your school to a general statement that all college admissions must therefore resemble that of your school. That’s even assuming you have enough years of data about the admissions at your school to show some kind of pattern there.

I know schools where students take an average of 3-5 AP classes and 20% go to top 15 schools. But I’m not going to say this is representative of the whole. I guess you would.

Please, representative doesn’t mean every school must resemble the sample. You’re in a spot where any evidence against your beliefs is discarded.

APs are used to determine rigor, look at the typical school profile that is sent to colleges, it mentions how many APs are offered, how many students take them, average pass rate, GPA bump policy etc.

Does class rigor matter? Of course it does, we know that from the common data sets and college admissions pages that state a good preparation is to take challenging classes in all different areas. Hint, challenging is synonymous with AP.

That doesn’t mean you need 15 APs, but you need enough to be competitive in your high school and nationally. There’s a point of diminishing returns, sure. The courses taken matter, Calculus is important for stem, some classes are 1 semester, others are 2, etc. By no means 3-4 is competitive to Top 20, when literally over 1 million kids have the stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

What are you trying to say here? That AP scores are not more significant than other areas or that they are insignificant?

Here’s the evidence you need from Stanford admissions page:

“AP exams are not mandatory; however, if you have taken any AP exams, you are required to self-report all your AP scores in your application.”

Why would they require applicants to submit the scores if they are not used to sort students?

[Anonymous]

Mine took 11 or 12, depending on how you count on class that had 2 separate exams. They did it to take the most rigorous classes and be competitive when compared to their peers. That was pretty standard for high achievers at their school. They ended up at a T25 school and could apply a lot of credits for general requirements, but not everything could be applied or some needed to be taken in college for their pre-health requirements. It's frustrating to have to retake it when they scored out, but we hope that means they are just well prepared to take it in college. DC will not be able to graduate early, though, bc they have too many reqs for post-grad that require labs and have to be taken in a certain order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

What are you trying to say here? That AP scores are not more significant than other areas or that they are insignificant?

Here’s the evidence you need from Stanford admissions page:

“AP exams are not mandatory; however, if you have taken any AP exams, you are required to self-report all your AP scores in your application.”

Why would they require applicants to submit the scores if they are not used to sort students?

AP scores became more important for admissions during test-optional, notably so in California where the UCs are SAT/ACT blind. It’s interesting that Stanford, which returned to SAT/ACT required this cycle, is retaining this requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

What are you trying to say here? That AP scores are not more significant than other areas or that they are insignificant?

Here’s the evidence you need from Stanford admissions page:

“AP exams are not mandatory; however, if you have taken any AP exams, you are required to self-report all your AP scores in your application.”

Why would they require applicants to submit the scores if they are not used to sort students?

AP scores became more important for admissions during test-optional, notably so in California where the UCs are SAT/ACT blind. It’s interesting that Stanford, which returned to SAT/ACT required this cycle, is retaining this requirement.

The SAT score will back fire on the colleges - when you are test optional the kids who score high will report them. The SAT score will be high - now I predict a drop in average SAT score if everyone needs to submit. The test optional schools will have a higher average SAT score than the test mandatory which in turn will help the USNWR ranking. #1 Princeton is test optional and don't look like they are going to change.

Do UCs use the AP Scores? I thought they see if you've taken APs and the grade you received.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

What are you trying to say here? That AP scores are not more significant than other areas or that they are insignificant?

Here’s the evidence you need from Stanford admissions page:

“AP exams are not mandatory; however, if you have taken any AP exams, you are required to self-report all your AP scores in your application.”

Why would they require applicants to submit the scores if they are not used to sort students?

AP scores became more important for admissions during test-optional, notably so in California where the UCs are SAT/ACT blind. It’s interesting that Stanford, which returned to SAT/ACT required this cycle, is retaining this requirement.

The SAT score will back fire on the colleges - when you are test optional the kids who score high will report them. The SAT score will be high - now I predict a drop in average SAT score if everyone needs to submit. The test optional schools will have a higher average SAT score than the test mandatory which in turn will help the USNWR ranking. #1 Princeton is test optional and don't look like they are going to change.

Do UCs use the AP Scores? I thought they see if you've taken APs and the grade you received.

Despite what clueless previous posters were claiming, AP scores are used for admissions, including at UCs. From the common data set at Berkeley:

“Other academic indicators will continue to be assessed in the review process, including grades, the rigor of a student's courses, other non-required tests (SAT subject test, AP tests, IB test, etc.), and a student’s individual academic context.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

In case you’re wondering, 25% of students at our high school get AP scholar with 5 exams. They end up at schools like UNC. Needless to say the ones ending at top 20 schools have significantly more APs.

Well by all means extrapolate from your high school to all the others

Definitely extrapolate if the sample is representative, you seem to be very confused about the concept.

Hopefully this fact will help your understanding. More than 400,000 students have an AP count of 6+.

It’s not a good way to sort out students if you don’t discriminate past 6 APs.

Yet, MIT, Caltech and many others are very clear that students are required to send all their AP scores. They obviously think that information is useful.

You have no idea whether a single school’s sample is representative of the whole

Sending AP scores doesn’t translate into it being a significant factor anymore than any other part of the application nor is there any evidence that it’s used to sort within a high school school or between high schools

What are you trying to say here? That AP scores are not more significant than other areas or that they are insignificant?

Here’s the evidence you need from Stanford admissions page:

“AP exams are not mandatory; however, if you have taken any AP exams, you are required to self-report all your AP scores in your application.”

Why would they require applicants to submit the scores if they are not used to sort students?

AP scores became more important for admissions during test-optional, notably so in California where the UCs are SAT/ACT blind. It’s interesting that Stanford, which returned to SAT/ACT required this cycle, is retaining this requirement.

The SAT score will back fire on the colleges - when you are test optional the kids who score high will report them. The SAT score will be high - now I predict a drop in average SAT score if everyone needs to submit. The test optional schools will have a higher average SAT score than the test mandatory which in turn will help the USNWR ranking. #1 Princeton is test optional and don't look like they are going to change.

Do UCs use the AP Scores? I thought they see if you've taken APs and the grade you received.

Despite what clueless previous posters were claiming, AP scores are used for admissions, including at UCs. From the common data set at Berkeley:

“Other academic indicators will continue to be assessed in the review process, including grades, the rigor of a student's courses, other non-required tests (SAT subject test, AP tests, IB test, etc.), and a student’s individual academic context.”

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People desperately want APs to count for admissions simply because it’s a counting stat. I took X APs and scored a 5 on this many of them.

I think the reality is far more complicated and chasing 10, 12 or 14 APs is just misguided.

Montgomery County kids take APUSH in 9th grade. Isn’t it possible that colleges devalue APs if 9th graders can excel in them?

A lot of colleges put some kind of cap on the way they score APs. For example they might want to see one AP in each core subject, or treat “6 or more” APs the same, so that there’s no extra benefit to taking 18. But of course as with everything this varies from school to school.

Source? Or was this told to you by your admissions officer “friends.”

“On average, people who take harder classes in high school may be better students already, so of course they’d have higher GPAs in college. To control for that, Kretchmar and Wiesen took into account SAT scores and high school grades. They found that students who take more AP or IB courses do better in college—but only up to a certain point. If two students have similar SAT scores and high-school grades, and one takes zero AP courses and the other takes five, the student with five AP courses will probably have a higher first-year undergraduate GPA (3.26 versus 3.07). Above five courses, there’s no significant increase in GPA.

“From now on, when Kretchmar and Farmer read applications, they won’t be looking for more than five AP or IB courses. ‘There’s no penalty for taking more than five,’ Farmer explains, “but once you have five, you’ve jumped through the meaningful hoop, as far as we can see.’ Starting with the 2013–2014 admissions season, this is how UNC’s whole staff reading applications should be viewing AP and IB course loads.”

https://endeavors.unc.edu/more_ap_classes_may_not_be_better#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20people%20who%20take,to%20repeat%20the%20same%20mistake.

But also, isn’t it obvious? Look at all the disappointed parents and students crying about how taking eleventy-hundred AP courses didn’t get them into HYPSM. And look at all the kids from private schools that don’t even offer APs getting in. If overloading on AP courses was always better, that would be flipped. Go ahead and take more APs if that’s the best choice for you at your high school, but in terms of college admissions there really is a point of diminishing returns.

It’s one study done at one mid tier college, UNC. Not controlled for other factors like type of college, major, high school profile, student background etc.

I agree though that there’s a point of diminished returns, in my view 10 of the highest rigor APs.

+1 Just because one study done at one state school in North Carolina found that 5 APs is enough for them doesn't mean that this conclusion applies nationwide.

And you're also confused about your interpretation of students crying about taking "eleventy hundred" APs and not getting into HYPSM. These schools have small undergrad populations and <5% acceptance rates, and most applicants won't get in.

But that doesn't mean that students with more AP coursework aren't more likely to get in (even if acceptance rates are low) than students with less AP coursework. I would bet that in most elite universities, a higher number of APs is correlated with a higher acceptance rate (even if there are diminishing returns at some point).

Yes, of course kids with more APs don't have a less chance of getting in. But kids who take on a huge number of APs usually (not always) don't have time for much else. I'm always shocked by kids who take 15+ APs... unless their school is very easy. At our public it's very hard to get solid As in AP courses. Plus, does it fit the kids profile to take a bunch of random APs? Do those kids come off as grinders? Sometimes yes. Do those kids get into Ivies. Sometimes yes.

The number isn't that important. Take the ones that fit your profile. Beyond a certain number, there aren't that many that are in the core subjects. Better to spend the extra time pursuing interests and building relationships with teachers.

A friend told me she once interviewed a candidate for HYPS, and she had taken every single (!) AP available. She was not accepted... probably because she had not much else to show. The number of APs you take shouldn't even come up in the interview!

The number is important because it determines how many kids have it.

To be competitive to top schools for example, you’ll have to be in the top 1% ish of the AP metric, if that’s your strength.

It turns out it takes 12 exams to be in the top 1%, 10 exams is 3%, likely acceptable if you have other things, 7 exams is top 10% of students, likely not competitive at the very top colleges, but still solid at many others.

5 exams at UNC sounds about right, it’s top 20% of students.

That’s a cute theory but it’s more wishful thinking - you are so desperate to reduce admissions to how many of this or your score on that. Maybe for some schools you can do that but I doubt it matters at others.

I’m quite sure the number of typical AP is higher at HYPSM than at UNC.

Oh well if you’re quite sure I find that completely convincing.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/bradwschiller_ap-exam-scores-matter-a-lot-for-ivy-and-equivalent-activity-7330914031760732160-VdsE
This guy with a college admissions company claims that the average Harvard admit took 6 exams before applying with a 4.7 average score (out of 5). Rejected applicants took 4 exams with a 4.4 average score. He doesn't cite the source, but if he says it's 6 exams before applying, that must mean they have 6 AP Scores by junior year. Most students also take APs their senior year.

Where did he get that data from? Harvard isn’t publishing it - I’ll believe that when it’s not from a source as reliable as this forum

At best it's summary data from his clients.

But anecdotally, ask anyone you know who got in and who was rejected.


Regardless, no idea how much he's counting the junk APs like CS Principles / A and Precalc