Admission process transparency

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The troll thrives on the debate in all of her threads, even when she’s completely wrong and perhaps she’s even arguing a point she doesn’t agree with. That’s where she gets her twisted a sense of excitement. There’s no good faith to any of her posts. She’s not truly trying to learn anything or solve any problems. She’s just using you for her entertainment. Accumulating over seven pages of responses and just one morning is such a stimulant and so empowering. Ignore her. Let this thread disappear into obscurity.

I don't know, nor do I care, if a troll started this thread because it's a very good topic. I am more intrigued by the hysterical attitude that we don't deserve to know more or have more transparency in the admissions process. I am not claiming we have the right to it, that's a separate legal topic, but for those of us who are not naturally part of the private school world, it can be byzantine and leaving us wary, schools rolling out the red carpet without being frank. And it is still effort and money and multiple hoops to jump through. And if I knew the chances for my non sibling, non legacy, non sporty, non minority kid was more like 5% rather than 25%, it definitely makes a difference in deciding whether to toss our hat in the ring.

Will say all the adcomms we've dealt with have been very nice and friendly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the incentive for a school to release these data? These are businesses.

Non-profits in most cases. Also they are required to release publicly their tax filings. Interesting don’t you think?

And they do. Why would they release more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Oh OP, from the POV of the schools, the system is working almost perfectly and they have no interest in helping you feel better by providing hard data about acceptances.

I suspect the truth is the school found her extremely aggravating in the admissions process and decided not to admit a problem family. How do you want to reflect this in the data?

First time I heard that requesting data means a problem family. Sounds a lot like a a mob enterprise. Very easy. If there is no wrongdoing, there is no harm in releasing the data.

So unless someone releases data, they are involved in wrongdoing?

Not all. It is a logical statement. If you have not done anything wrong, no harm will occur from releasing the data.

Sounds extortionate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Admissions decisions at these schools is much more subjective than many know. The school is attempting to put together a class that satisfies the disparate needs of the interests on campus.

Publishing the data will only make their jobs harder and take the Admissions process in a direction they are not interested in taking.

Yeah, but we deserve to know. Just like how, when you apply to a job, the company sends you the statistics about how many applicants to your position there were, what the race and age of the applicants were, what qualifications were best suited to moving forward in the hiring process, getting to the interview stage, etc. I don't know why private schools get away with being so opaque when everyone else has to be so open.

The point is that you don’t deserve to know. You are not entitled to any private school or their data. What is not clicking

It truly shows that it’s some of your first times to not get what you want and it’s laughable.

Then why do other things in society like landlords have to publish statistics about who applies for their apartments and who gets the lease? Companies tell every applicant to a job why they didn't get it and who did, what their qualifications were, etc. It's the only way to ensure there's no discrimination. Why do private schools not have to do this?

Since when? Companies ghost people all the time after they've spent time completing applications, in some cases providing work samples, and interviewing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

Potato potahto

[Anonymous]

In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Does this discuss private schools in Europe?

[Anonymous]

The process of apply to HS is not exhausting. Good grief, people have no idea what hardship really entails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

That is true in theory, except that private schools receive significant tax exemptions. For example, non-profit organizations also receive tax exemptions, but in return they must publicly disclose data about their operations. Likewise, when you rent an apartment, the landlord cannot reject your application based on opaque reasons, and the applicant has the right to ask for and obtain information. How can anyone be protected against racial discrimination in school admissions if the system remains so opaque?

You have made these same comparisons before in other threads, many people have explained why they are different. You are not learning or convincing anyone else. Why do you persist?

Just because you don't have a good argument or don't agree doesn't mean that OP can't make their points. This is a message board where people are supposed to debate and express their thoughts on things after all. You should try it.

This same OP starts dozens of nonsense threads and then argues with everyone until it gets locked or people tire of her. Always some accusation of discrimination and unfairness that makes no sense. My thoughts are that this OP should find a new hobby.

I'm sorry you think it's nonsense to want transparency in the admissions process. It's an exhausting process, and we have the right to know so we don't get so tired applying to all these schools

Stop applying to these schools then, they don’t want you and it makes you tired.

Stop with all of these nonsense threads OP, you are getting nowhere and your signature formula of question about inequality + tireless arguing about your rights + sarcasm toward everyone who disagrees with you = thread getting locked or abandoned. There is a reason people don’t want you in their community

Why do private schools parents get so threatened whenever someone points out something about their system that's not ideal?

It is not ideal for you, but the system works great for others. Your repeated arguments against a system you don’t understand are ineffective and just show your ignorance.

When all you have left are ad hominem attacks, you're losing

Not the PP, but his or her post is pretty much spot on.

Don't like the rules of the game? Don't play.

Admissions decisions are frequently much more subjective than objective and are in response to the many needs of the constituencies on campus. It's a combination of art and science and transparency isn't going to work.

If there is nothing to hide, the best policy is always transparency. As a previous poster mention, the process is draining and if you have information that you don’t satisfy some criteria in advance, you apply for another school. It saves time and energy to everyone.

But the system is indifferent to your time and energy.

The Admissions Department is charged with and measured against generating as many Applications as they can. They try their best not to discourage anyone from applying.

The school wants to select a class from the largest possible pool of applicants.

And it’s also true that early on in the process even they can’t tell what the real odds are that any applicant will be offered Admission. It depends on so many things as they try to construct a class composed of enough full-pays, legacies, athletes, theater kids, academic stars, etc. to make the thing go.

It’s easy to understand why anyone might not want to invest a lot of time and energy in an effort where the odds are against them.

These is one group that might be able to give you your odds, if they are willing to do so. And that’s the HOS at your current school IF the school has a long track record of having students apply to the schools you are interested in. They have the history of acceptances and rejections as a guide and they also know your son or daughter. They could easily guess as to whether they are a shoo-in, a maybe or a low probability. They could —- if they wanted —- even discuss your DC’s chances with the school’s Admissions Department and get a feel.

But that exchange of information could be a two-edged sword for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Does this discuss private schools in Europe?

Read it and you can tell everyone later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

That is true in theory, except that private schools receive significant tax exemptions. For example, non-profit organizations also receive tax exemptions, but in return they must publicly disclose data about their operations. Likewise, when you rent an apartment, the landlord cannot reject your application based on opaque reasons, and the applicant has the right to ask for and obtain information. How can anyone be protected against racial discrimination in school admissions if the system remains so opaque?

You have made these same comparisons before in other threads, many people have explained why they are different. You are not learning or convincing anyone else. Why do you persist?

Just because you don't have a good argument or don't agree doesn't mean that OP can't make their points. This is a message board where people are supposed to debate and express their thoughts on things after all. You should try it.

This same OP starts dozens of nonsense threads and then argues with everyone until it gets locked or people tire of her. Always some accusation of discrimination and unfairness that makes no sense. My thoughts are that this OP should find a new hobby.

I'm sorry you think it's nonsense to want transparency in the admissions process. It's an exhausting process, and we have the right to know so we don't get so tired applying to all these schools

Stop applying to these schools then, they don’t want you and it makes you tired.

Stop with all of these nonsense threads OP, you are getting nowhere and your signature formula of question about inequality + tireless arguing about your rights + sarcasm toward everyone who disagrees with you = thread getting locked or abandoned. There is a reason people don’t want you in their community

Why do private schools parents get so threatened whenever someone points out something about their system that's not ideal?

It is not ideal for you, but the system works great for others. Your repeated arguments against a system you don’t understand are ineffective and just show your ignorance.

When all you have left are ad hominem attacks, you're losing

Not the PP, but his or her post is pretty much spot on.

Don't like the rules of the game? Don't play.

Admissions decisions are frequently much more subjective than objective and are in response to the many needs of the constituencies on campus. It's a combination of art and science and transparency isn't going to work.

If there is nothing to hide, the best policy is always transparency. As a previous poster mention, the process is draining and if you have information that you don’t satisfy some criteria in advance, you apply for another school. It saves time and energy to everyone.

But the system is indifferent to your time and energy.

The Admissions Department is charged with and measured against generating as many Applications as they can. They try their best not to discourage anyone from applying.

The school wants to select a class from the largest possible pool of applicants.

And it’s also true that early on in the process even they can’t tell what the real odds are that any applicant will be offered Admission. It depends on so many things as they try to construct a class composed of enough full-pays, legacies, athletes, theater kids, academic stars, etc. to make the thing go.

It’s easy to understand why anyone might not want to invest a lot of time and energy in an effort where the odds are against them.

These is one group that might be able to give you your odds, if they are willing to do so. And that’s the HOS at your current school IF the school has a long track record of having students apply to the schools you are interested in. They have the history of acceptances and rejections as a guide and they also know your son or daughter. They could easily guess as to whether they are a shoo-in, a maybe or a low probability. They could —- if they wanted —- even discuss your DC’s chances with the school’s Admissions Department and get a feel.

But that exchange of information could be a two-edged sword for you.

Interesting concept. There could be discrimination in an admission process but there is no chance to check if there are safeguards in the process for discrimination. Legally the system should not be indifferent to discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a child applying to 9th grade , I can see where OP is coming from.

The admissions process is EXHAUSTING for both the parents and the kids. I have literally been to one school FIVE times already for various admissions events (tours, interview, dropping off DC for a shadow day, athletics event, parent coffee...) and that is just ONE school. DC is applying to six schools and this has been like a full time job. They are applying to six schools just to make sure they can get into one because nothing is guaranteed and we have no idea what the schools really want.

I just wish schools would give some loose guidelines as to what they are looking for for me to know if my child even has a shot at that school. That way we don't waste our time or the admissions teams time.

The problem is that I believe that the performance of the admissions team is based on how many applications they get. They have every incentive to encourage you to apply even though they know your child does not stand a chance.

I'm sorry this thread is getting derailed as it is a good topic. We are also applying to private schools and it is taking up most of my non working time, between the visits and shadow days and essays and applications and the test prep. But what are really the chances of being admitted at this or that school? Deep inside I'm aware there must goals the school is looking for in an incoming class, this % for athletes, this % for black students, this % for other non white students, this % for legacies, so does it really mean out of a hypothetical 30 open seats in an expansion year, we're really competing for one of five seats, not 30? Those would be the true odds.

And of course we're always worried whether we're doing enough during the admissions process. Is just filling out the applications fine or do schools still somehow expect more from us without explicitly saying so? Do they keep records of how often we visit the campus? But other than the open house and shadow day, what else is there?

I only figured this out after applying 3 times. Now finally figured out some ideas to improve the chance, but the chances are still extremely low, especially for lower grades. I do wonder if family from American education system or people who themselves went to private school have an advantage as they know how to “talk” or advocate their family better than international ones, besides all the usual hooks.

But my only point is keep trying as there are just not enough spots for all the qualified kids. And there will never be transparent because I imagine the admission is also dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

Went from George Wallace to William Wallace real quick